Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by all41 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:50 pm

The magic is in how you wield it. Same magic in all distros
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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by HaveaMint » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:23 am

CaptainKirksChair wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:00 pm
Image
This image caught my attention with the pretty icons and the dead vegetation or dormant for a background image. Please don't think I am making any fun of your desktop, it was only my first thought is all.
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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by Moem » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:32 am

MurphCID wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:38 pm
I want others to look at the fonts and icons, and go; "Wow that is an attractive desktop", so they will be interested in using Mint.
Okay, but I still don't have the vaguest idea of what you consider attractive or pretty. Is it flat icons? Colourful? 3D with shadows? Minimalistic?
And what is a good looking font in your eyes, and why can't you install it on Linux?

If you want Linux to be better looking, it would help to know what that means to you. 'More like Mac OS or Windows' doesn't make it clear. What exactly about the looks of those OSses do you find appealing?
Image

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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by MurphCID » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:28 am

Moem wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:32 am
MurphCID wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:38 pm
I want others to look at the fonts and icons, and go; "Wow that is an attractive desktop", so they will be interested in using Mint.
Okay, but I still don't have the vaguest idea of what you consider attractive or pretty. Is it flat icons? Colourful? 3D with shadows? Minimalistic?
And what is a good looking font in your eyes, and why can't you install it on Linux?

If you want Linux to be better looking, it would help to know what that means to you. 'More like Mac OS or Windows' doesn't make it clear. What exactly about the looks of those OSses do you find appealing?
Good, clear clean crisp fonts with excellent anti-aliasing. Icons the same way, clear, crisp, well defined. Flat is ok, but boring, I like skewmorphic icons to some extent. But my number one priortity is clean, clear, crisp looking.

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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by Moem » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:31 am

MurphCID wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:28 am
Good, clear clean crisp fonts with excellent anti-aliasing. Icons the same way, clear, crisp, well defined. Flat is ok, but boring, I like skewmorphic icons to some extent. But my number one priortity is clean, clear, crisp looking.
Thank you, now I have a much clearer idea of what you mean. I had to look up skeuomorphic, I found this article that explains it well: https://en.99designs.nl/blog/trends/ske ... al-design/
Image

If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!

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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by Gavsrob » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:23 am

apple - never used it... unless you count in my school years on a monochrome monitor with floppy drive.
But I'll admit, from what I have seen from afar Looks pretty

Windows - Looks terrible! what are you talking about?

Mint cinnamon - graphite one theme looks quite polished to me. I changed the Icons to mint-Y and a whole lot of other things, but seriously... It leaves windows in the dust.

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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by Portreve » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:14 pm

Moem wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:31 am
MurphCID wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:28 am
Good, clear clean crisp fonts with excellent anti-aliasing. Icons the same way, clear, crisp, well defined. Flat is ok, but boring, I like skewmorphic icons to some extent. But my number one priortity is clean, clear, crisp looking.
Thank you, now I have a much clearer idea of what you mean. I had to look up skeuomorphic, I found this article that explains it well: https://en.99designs.nl/blog/trends/ske ... al-design/
Thanks for the insight and education, Moem. At least now I know how to refer to these particular bits of UI design philosophy. The further one goes in the Swiss / grid direction of flat design, the uglier I find it to be.
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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by CaptainKirksChair » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:00 am

HaveaMint wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:23 am
This image caught my attention with the pretty icons and the dead vegetation or dormant for a background image. Please don't think I am making any fun of your desktop, it was only my first thought is all.
The photo was taken on my Samsung S7 Edge of some trees on an old abandoned airfield just down the road from my house during last winter. The trees all have leaves now. I had to put my phone between the barbed wire that is on top of the mesh fence to get the photo. I didn't think it was that good when I took the shot but when I saw it on a large computer screen, I knew it was good.

Thank you.

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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by smurphos » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:21 am

In terms of beautifying a distro it's quite interesting following the development of the Ubuntu community's Communitheme....slated to be the default for 18.10 if it's ready for primetime by then.

https://github.com/ubuntu/gtk-communith ... and-how%3F

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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by MurphCID » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:47 am

Moem wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:31 am
MurphCID wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:28 am
Good, clear clean crisp fonts with excellent anti-aliasing. Icons the same way, clear, crisp, well defined. Flat is ok, but boring, I like skewmorphic icons to some extent. But my number one priortity is clean, clear, crisp looking.
Thank you, now I have a much clearer idea of what you mean. I had to look up skeuomorphic, I found this article that explains it well: https://en.99designs.nl/blog/trends/ske ... al-design/
Windows 7 was attractive, Windows 8+ was fugly, but probably the most beautiful desktop was Mac O/S X Aqua. I can't fault Jobs on that, it was probably the best looking desktop ever. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_ ... _on_G4.png It just looks good. I am not ashamed to admit it, I would run the Mac O/S on a hackintosh just to get that great looking desktop. MS Clear Type fonts, and the Aero theme just looked good. Win 10 is just meh.

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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by gm10 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:58 am

MurphCID wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:47 am
Windows 7 was attractive, Windows 8+ was fugly, but probably the most beautiful desktop was Mac O/S X Aqua. I can't fault Jobs on that, it was probably the best looking desktop ever. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_ ... _on_G4.png It just looks good. I am not ashamed to admit it, I would run the Mac O/S on a hackintosh just to get that great looking desktop. MS Clear Type fonts, and the Aero theme just looked good. Win 10 is just meh.
All questions of preference. I always preferred a clean desktop, so I never used the Aero theme, I don't particularly like macOS X and I actually like Win 10 in that respect. Just goes to show that you can never please everybody and thus themability is the way to go.

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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by MurphCID » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:16 am

I am a bit OCD about my desktop, I was it minimalist, with few icons on the desktop. I prefer them on the taskbar. I am constantly trying new themes to get one I like. None really seem to satisfy for some reason. But I will keep looking.

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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by BubbaBlues » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:30 pm

Yeah I read that post and caught myself looking for a "Like" button. haha
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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by Portreve » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:32 pm

Based on what I have seen for various exotic and eclectic custom Android ROMs over the years, and various desktop shots of different themes in different desktop environments, I know for a fact that the skills are out there to build some very beautiful user interfaces. Besides that, there are many who help develop within the GNU+Linux community who's day jobs are working for companies doing professional software development. Combine these two data points and one is left with the inescapable conclusion that it is possible to build a GNU+Linux desktop environment which is well executed and visually rich and pleasing to the eye.

There's two fundamental problems I see, however. The first is most of the people doing software development just don't care about aesthetics of user interface design. The second is the community overall is really fickle about such things, or at least incredibly divided, so this makes the whole thing look like an effort to herd cats.

What we really need are legitimate user interface design experts, usability experts, etc., intimately involved in the design of the underpinnings from which can come the visual elements of any desktop environment. However, given their apparent dearth (or at least a fundamental lack of ambition to do such things) and an excessive ego on the part of those designing the fundamental elements (GTK and Qt projects, I'm looking at you) I seriously doubt we will ever be graced in the GNU+Linux world with an out-of-box (OOB) experience that's as graceful and elegant as was Apple's Aqua ca. 10.4 - 10.6, etc.

Moem a while ago pointed out another set of icons available (Paper, I believe it's called) and they're nice, and maybe they might appeal to others here, but for me as much as I am not 100% thrilled with the default Mint X set, it is still less fugly than anything else I've seen. That, however, is just icons. It doesn't even begin to address window and button and control and cursor (etc., etc.) elements.
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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by Portreve » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:18 pm

CaptainKirksChair wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:00 pm
I know where you are coming from. I want my desktop to look nice. Mostly in case anyone else looks at it. I tweak it all the time. I install Cairo-Dock using the Alu them and Mac4Lin as a window theme.
Where do you pick window themes in Cairo? I have the Alu theme picked, and I think I'm going to have to do some tweaking to it myself, but I'd like to push this as far as you have as a test.

This is actually pretty alright, btw.
MurphCID wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:13 am
I am a font and Icon snob. I want pretty.
As someone who's worked in the desktop publishing industry and prior to that worked on my high school's newspaper staff as its very first desktop publisher, I've been a collector of fine fonts for many a year. When it comes to the UI, font choices can make or break something. Do you have any particular favorites?

The only issue I've had is that type, regardless of font, can be pretty unreadable because there's no stroke or even slight shadow which can help isolate text from the color of a given area of a desktop background. Mac OS X (at least used to... no idea about the present) does this bit extremely well.
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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by MurphCID » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:32 pm

Portreve wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:18 pm
CaptainKirksChair wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:00 pm
I know where you are coming from. I want my desktop to look nice. Mostly in case anyone else looks at it. I tweak it all the time. I install Cairo-Dock using the Alu them and Mac4Lin as a window theme.
Where do you pick window themes in Cairo? I have the Alu theme picked, and I think I'm going to have to do some tweaking to it myself, but I'd like to push this as far as you have as a test.

This is actually pretty alright, btw.
MurphCID wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:13 am
I am a font and Icon snob. I want pretty.
As someone who's worked in the desktop publishing industry and prior to that worked on my high school's newspaper staff as its very first desktop publisher, I've been a collector of fine fonts for many a year. When it comes to the UI, font choices can make or break something. Do you have any particular favorites?

The only issue I've had is that type, regardless of font, can be pretty unreadable because there's no stroke or even slight shadow which can help isolate text from the color of a given area of a desktop background. Mac OS X (at least used to... no idea about the present) does this bit extremely well.
I like San Serif fonts, as well as the uncial type fonts. For some applications I like Palatino, and fonts like that. Mac Icons, especially in O/S X 10.4-10.6 were lovely, just lovely. I really wish that there was not that vocal group that equated good looking, with commercial sell out, or Apple/Microsoft, those guys who want us to go back to terminal, 80 column text, and ugly. They somehow think attractive is a sin for whatever reason, and that "L33t H@x0rs" use ugly o/s'es which somehow makes them elite...

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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by MurphCID » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:32 pm

Portreve wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:32 pm
Based on what I have seen for various exotic and eclectic custom Android ROMs over the years, and various desktop shots of different themes in different desktop environments, I know for a fact that the skills are out there to build some very beautiful user interfaces. Besides that, there are many who help develop within the GNU+Linux community who's day jobs are working for companies doing professional software development. Combine these two data points and one is left with the inescapable conclusion that it is possible to build a GNU+Linux desktop environment which is well executed and visually rich and pleasing to the eye.

There's two fundamental problems I see, however. The first is most of the people doing software development just don't care about aesthetics of user interface design. The second is the community overall is really fickle about such things, or at least incredibly divided, so this makes the whole thing look like an effort to herd cats.

What we really need are legitimate user interface design experts, usability experts, etc., intimately involved in the design of the underpinnings from which can come the visual elements of any desktop environment. However, given their apparent dearth (or at least a fundamental lack of ambition to do such things) and an excessive ego on the part of those designing the fundamental elements (GTK and Qt projects, I'm looking at you) I seriously doubt we will ever be graced in the GNU+Linux world with an out-of-box (OOB) experience that's as graceful and elegant as was Apple's Aqua ca. 10.4 - 10.6, etc.

Moem a while ago pointed out another set of icons available (Paper, I believe it's called) and they're nice, and maybe they might appeal to others here, but for me as much as I am not 100% thrilled with the default Mint X set, it is still less fugly than anything else I've seen. That, however, is just icons. It doesn't even begin to address window and button and control and cursor (etc., etc.) elements.
BAM! Hit it on the head, this is so true.

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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by CaptainKirksChair » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:52 pm

Portreve wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:18 pm
Where do you pick window themes in Cairo? I have the Alu theme picked, and I think I'm going to have to do some tweaking to it myself, but I'd like to push this as far as you have as a test.

This is actually pretty alright, btw.
As long as the Alu theme has a star next to it on the Themes tab, that means it's active. You can then go to the Current Items tab, choose the dock you want to configure, and go from there. Cairo-Dock starts with a top and bottom dock enabled. I kill the top dock because I put the Mint task bar there.

I customize all of the icons for the items on the dock. I keep them in the Pictures/Themes/Linux folder so I know where they are. If you want to customize the icons, you can use PNG files. I do and they look nice. Here's my desktop with the Alu theme.

Image

As far as I know, Cairo-Dock doesn't do window themes. If you want to use Mac4Lin as your window theme you can download it and choose it in the System Settings/Themes. You can also move the Close, Minimize, and Maximize icons from the top right to the top left in System Settings/Windows.

There is one caveat with Cairo-Dock and Mint 19. You may have to install the Cairo-Dock plug-ins.

Code: Select all

sudo apt-get install cairo-dock cairo-dock-plug-ins
For me, the dock trash wasn't linked to the operating system trash. Everything works once you install the plug-ins.

Edit:

By the way, here's my home folder with Mac4Lin as the windows theme.

Image

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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by AZgl1500 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:26 am

Portreve wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:32 pm


What we really need are legitimate user interface design experts, usability experts, etc., intimately involved in the design of the underpinnings from which can come the visual elements of any desktop environment. However, given their apparent dearth (or at least a fundamental lack of ambition to do such things) and an excessive ego on the part of those designing the fundamental elements (GTK and Qt projects, I'm looking at you) I seriously doubt we will ever be graced in the GNU+Linux world with an out-of-box (OOB) experience that's as graceful and elegant as was Apple's Aqua ca. 10.4 - 10.6, etc.
hey hey!
you just took the words out of my mouth, I just posted a couple of threads on Themes to give me better contrast.... the current forum theme of various shades of fugly green, along with the new Tara Cinnamon faintness of heart theme, and the friggin banner colors of the apps is driving me insane.

they all blend together into one homogeneous crappy, muddy mess, that I can't tell what I am clicking on.

folks who have vision problems abhor the current sloppy trend in themes....

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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by AZgl1500 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:29 am

CaptainKirksChair wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:52 pm


As long as the Alu theme has a star next to it on the Themes tab, that means it's active. You can then go to the Current Items tab, choose the dock you want to configure, and go from there. Cairo-Dock starts with a top and bottom dock enabled. I kill the top dock because I put the Mint task bar there.

I customize all of the icons for the items on the dock. I keep them in the Pictures/Themes/Linux folder so I know where they are. If you want to customize the icons, you can use PNG files. I do and they look nice. Here's my desktop with the Alu theme.

Image

As far as I know, Cairo-Dock doesn't do window themes. If you want to use Mac4Lin as your window theme you can download it and choose it in the System Settings/Themes. You can also move the Close, Minimize, and Maximize icons from the top right to the top left in System Settings/Windows.

There is one caveat with Cairo-Dock and Mint 19. You may have to install the Cairo-Dock plug-ins.

Code: Select all

sudo apt-get install cairo-dock cairo-dock-plug-ins
For me, the dock trash wasn't linked to the operating system trash. Everything works once you install the plug-ins.

Edit:

By the way, here's my home folder with Mac4Lin as the windows theme.

Image
to you, that is nice,

to me, it is most hideous POS theme I have seen.... the Banner bar at the top of the page is invisible.

folks with vision problems need SOLID COLORS, not a bunch of pastel junk that I can't see what the hell is going on...

put a color chart in front of me, and I don't see a damn thing but a fugly overall greenish tint.

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