Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

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Redact
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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by Redact » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:21 pm

MurphCID wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:51 am
I used my Macbook Pro last night, and once more was amazed at how good it looks in terms of graphics compared to either Winders or Linux.
Well see, that's where folks differ.
Whenever I have to help my wife on her Mac, I can't stand the look, and can't wait to get back to Linux.
Which I have looking my way, something I can't do on Mac.

ud6

Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by ud6 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:03 am

New release of Deepin (chinese distro based on Debian).. just wondering if anyone here has tried it. I guess desktop isn't really portable, but if it has same flexibility of linux debian systems under the hood, maybe a good option for increased looks.

Seema that, just as we had OSs racing to get faster boot up times (and succeeded) we are now seeing a race for better looking desktop environs. without excessively using system resources (deepin supposed to be more efficient than ubuntu unity desktop, and unity is one of the ugliest things I've ever seen 😱😅😅)

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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by gm10 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:03 am

ud6 wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:03 am
New release of Deepin (chinese distro based on Debian).. just wondering if anyone here has tried it. I guess desktop isn't really portable, but if it has same flexibility of linux debian systems under the hood, maybe a good option for increased looks.

Seema that, just as we had OSs racing to get faster boot up times (and succeeded) we are now seeing a race for better looking desktop environs. without excessively using system resources (deepin supposed to be more efficient than ubuntu unity desktop, and unity is one of the ugliest things I've ever seen 😱😅😅)
deepin is great, a very coherent design that extends to a lot of custom apps that come with it. Feels like a merge of Windows UWP design guidelines with Android icons and drawers. I haven't tried the latest version yet, last I saw was 15.6.

It's a Qt-based desktop and feels snappier than any edition that Mint has got with a memory footprint is a bit higher than Xfce but far less than MATE. Performance is flawless in common mode, the effects mode is a bit heavier on the requirements but looks very smooth.

The desktop is kinda portable but for the full experience you'll want to pull in all their apps as well so it becomes quite a hefty modification and you may as well go with the full thing (including the Chinese MS Office clone which is actually pretty good). There is also ppa:leaeasy/dde with a year old version of the deepin desktop that you can install rather painlessly on Mint.

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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by catweazel » Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:15 am

gm10 wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:03 am
deepin is great, a very coherent design that extends to...
...looking like a cross between the Windwoes 10 menu and Gnome 3.
¡uʍop ǝpısdn sı buıɥʇʎɹǝʌǝ os ɐıןɐɹʇsnɐ ɯoɹɟ ɯ,ı

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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by gm10 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:31 am

Further re portability: Manjaro deepin is at 15.7 already. It's surprising there is no Ubuntu deepin edition, they have one for everything else. ;)

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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by JosephM » Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:01 am

It's a Qt-based desktop and feels snappier than any edition that Mint has got with a memory footprint is a bit higher than Xfce but far less than MATE. Performance is flawless in common mode, the effects mode is a bit heavier on the requirements but looks very smooth.
It isn't really a Qt based desktop. It's actually quite a bizarre mix of things. The window manager is a fork of an older version of Mutter. The Mutter plugin is a fork of an older version of Gala (from ElementaryOS) with Qt based stuff and applications on top. I'm not sure I've seen anything else put together quite like it :)
When I give opinions, they are my own. Not necessarily those of any other Linux Mint developer or the Linux Mint project as a whole.

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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by gm10 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:10 am

JosephM wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:01 am
I'm not sure I've seen anything else put together quite like it :)
Chinese engineering, but in this case it works. :twisted:

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MurphCID
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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by MurphCID » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:15 am

Yes, but is it spyware? Opinions seems to differ.

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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by gm10 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:30 am

MurphCID wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:15 am
Yes, but is it spyware? Opinions seems to differ.
Opinions are cheap. It's open source so claims of spyware would be easy to back up, yet I haven't seen that happening.

I haven't reviewed the source myself so I don't have an opinion other than the faint idea that "somebody else would have found it by now", considering that distro has been around since 2004.

And while I do appreciate what deepin has done desktop-wise, for now I remain happy with MATE and have no intentions of switching, so I'm not really bothered. ;)

ud6

Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by ud6 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:02 pm

gm10 wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:03 am
deepin is great, a very coherent design that extends to a lot of custom apps that come with it..... There is also ppa:leaeasy/dde with a year old version of the deepin desktop that you can install rather painlessly on Mint.
I'm so tempted but I feel like I spend alot of time checking distros and desktops just to come back to mint mate.. mainly because I'm used to it and can set it up how I like within an hour. I guess this is the same disease windows users have...

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Fred Barclay
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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by Fred Barclay » Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:29 pm

gm10 wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:30 am
MurphCID wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:15 am
Yes, but is it spyware? Opinions seems to differ.
Opinions are cheap. It's open source so claims of spyware would be easy to back up, yet I haven't seen that happening.

I haven't reviewed the source myself so I don't have an opinion other than the faint idea that "somebody else would have found it by now", considering that distro has been around since 2004.
Maybe. But (and correct me if I'm wrong), open-source doesn't keep the devs from slipping something in when building the iso image, right? It could be largely invisible, unless someone literally successfully reverse-engineers every single compiled executable in the distro after installation and finds some nasty code.

The alternative would be for someone else to build their own .iso and compare the checksum to that of the provided iso, but you'd have to get this precisely right too. If you got a different md5sum, how would you know that it's because distro devs slipped a little something extra in, and not because you just built the iso incorrectly?

For clarification -- I'm not suggesting that the Deepin devs (or anyone else) are actually doing anything of the sort!
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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by gm10 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:18 am

Fred Barclay wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:29 pm
Maybe. But (and correct me if I'm wrong), open-source doesn't keep the devs from slipping something in when building the iso image, right?
It doesn't even prevent them from building from a different source. But the same goes for every binary out there. It's what makes using PPAs so very risky, too. If you download a binary from a well established distribution which bases their business and the income of their employees on their reputation, then at least there's a big risk involved for them in cheating everybody and losing that reputation when someone finds out. If you download from some PPA you are trusting some anonymous individual who risks nothing by cheating you.

That's why, if you've got any doubts, download the source, review it and build it yourself. There is certainly software that I do that for. But no one person can do that for all the software they are using.

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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by andyO » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:09 am

Hoping this isn't too off topic (I think it's related though).

I love that our desktops are so easy to customise to our whims and preferences, but sometimes, I do kinda wish that there were only 3 or so options for desktop themes. Every now and then I just get obsessed with searching for my ideal look until I realise that I've spent a weeks worth of evenings doing nothing but mucking about with themes and settings. I enjoy tweaking and playing so it's not really time wasted as such, but then I think too much choice is bad for a few weeks until the bug finds its way back into my mind and I start tweaking again...

Currently rocking cold turkey with pure Mint-Y themed desktop.

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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by boyo1991 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:02 pm

i really really think you have the wrong idea. I personally think, especially LM cinnomin looks FANTASTIC. Its actually why i switched from kali linux. I liked ubuntus "way" of working, and I liked Kali's customizability, but wish it just looked a little more like.. well what LM cinnomin looks like and worked like ubuntu. But kali had the massive customizability. LM was a really good trade off. Id say Linux has the best potential to look good to most because of the wide breadth of desktops that you can run. If you dont like LM cinnomin, do you like ubuntu unity? I thought it looked neatish...

anywho:
I love that our desktops are so easy to customise to our whims and preferences
by andyO

TOTALLY agree. If you think all linux desktops just dont match what you want... make one yourself, its encouraged!

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MurphCID
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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by MurphCID » Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:59 am

A mint with the Aqua interface (in green) would be lovely. I would love to have such a window manager. Especially with good looking fonts.

ud6

Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by ud6 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:03 am

(regarding deepin)
gm10 wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:30 am
MurphCID wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:15 am
Yes, but is it spyware? Opinions seems to differ.
Opinions are cheap. It's open source so claims of spyware would be easy to back up, yet I haven't seen that happening...
I was just about to install Deepin, and was reading the same discussions (with feedback from Deeping developers). My conclusions are:
1. It is NOT apparent that deepin is spyware and probably there is some unfair negative attitudes because it is chinese based.
2. However, it DOES collect user information (like Windows/google does)

Unfortunately, that desire to collect user data in the background isn't something I like particularly if using for marketing. Seems a shame, as Deepin looks to be pushing forward the frontiers of good looking but efficient desktops.

links on these discussions:
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments ... ting_data/
https://bbs.deepin.org/forum.php?mod=vi ... 293&extra=

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MurphCID
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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by MurphCID » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:36 am

ud6 wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:03 am
(regarding deepin)
gm10 wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:30 am
MurphCID wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:15 am
Yes, but is it spyware? Opinions seems to differ.
Opinions are cheap. It's open source so claims of spyware would be easy to back up, yet I haven't seen that happening...
I was just about to install Deepin, and was reading the same discussions (with feedback from Deeping developers). My conclusions are:
1. It is NOT apparent that deepin is spyware and probably there is some unfair negative attitudes because it is chinese based.
2. However, it DOES collect user information (like Windows/google does)

Unfortunately, that desire to collect user data in the background isn't something I like particularly if using for marketing. Seems a shame, as Deepin looks to be pushing forward the frontiers of good looking but efficient desktops.

links on these discussions:
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments ... ting_data/
https://bbs.deepin.org/forum.php?mod=vi ... 293&extra=
Good point.

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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by gm10 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:48 am

ud6 wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:03 am
I was just about to install Deepin, and was reading the same discussions (with feedback from Deeping developers). My conclusions are:
1. It is NOT apparent that deepin is spyware and probably there is some unfair negative attitudes because it is chinese based.
2. However, it DOES collect user information (like Windows/google does)

Unfortunately, that desire to collect user data in the background isn't something I like particularly if using for marketing. Seems a shame, as Deepin looks to be pushing forward the frontiers of good looking but efficient desktops.

links on these discussions:
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments ... ting_data/
https://bbs.deepin.org/forum.php?mod=vi ... 293&extra=
All that you linked is that the deepin store was collecting visitor statistic in the past. That functionality was subsequently patched out. Unnecessarily if you ask me, every web site tracks you like that. Ubuntu tracks you for more by default. Linux Mint has most of that disabled, but it's is still configured to regularly contact the Ubuntu time servers without offering you to opt out, so Canonical always knows when you are online, knows your IP and thus your location.

I'm all for a privacy discussion but then do it for everyone.

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MurphCID
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Re: Why oh Why can't we make Linux better looking

Post by MurphCID » Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:15 pm

gm10 wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:48 am
ud6 wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:03 am
I was just about to install Deepin, and was reading the same discussions (with feedback from Deeping developers). My conclusions are:
1. It is NOT apparent that deepin is spyware and probably there is some unfair negative attitudes because it is chinese based.
2. However, it DOES collect user information (like Windows/google does)

Unfortunately, that desire to collect user data in the background isn't something I like particularly if using for marketing. Seems a shame, as Deepin looks to be pushing forward the frontiers of good looking but efficient desktops.

links on these discussions:
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments ... ting_data/
https://bbs.deepin.org/forum.php?mod=vi ... 293&extra=
All that you linked is that the deepin store was collecting visitor statistic in the past. That functionality was subsequently patched out. Unnecessarily if you ask me, every web site tracks you like that. Ubuntu tracks you for more by default. Linux Mint has most of that disabled, but it's is still configured to regularly contact the Ubuntu time servers without offering you to opt out, so Canonical always knows when you are online, knows your IP and thus your location.

I'm all for a privacy discussion but then do it for everyone.
Good post. I am still not convinced that it is secure.

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