[SOLVED] Why command line still? (newbie)

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JosephM
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Re: Why command line still? (newbie)

Post by JosephM » Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:35 am

rambo919 wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:15 am
lsemmens wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:29 am
+1 Far easier to say "type this" than to say, "look for the little button about half way down the screen, now, right click........"
You overestimate the typing and memory abilities of the average human..... this way is easier for you yes but not for most people on the other end especially since simply needing to also press shift to copy and paste already causes confusion.
I'm not sure you should be speaking for most people :) Copy/Pasting is basic computer knowledge. If someone can't do that they are probably going to struggle following instructions to do it graphically as well.
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Re: Why command line still? (newbie)

Post by Pjotr » Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:35 am

The terminal.... the mighty "Swiss Army knife" of Linux. Blazingly fast, unerring, as powerful as a battle ship. :mrgreen:

Required skills to operate it: being able to discern between good how-to's and bad ones. And being able to use copy/paste.
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Re: Why command line still? (newbie)

Post by AZgl1500 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:36 am

I use the Command line a lot, but I can't ever seem to remember the context of most of them.
that is why I use a very extensive Notebook: Evernote.com

powerful little beast and with it online for me, it is available 24/7 on my cellphone even.

I copy the text of some of the better posts that explain how some of the terms work, and keep links back to the post/thread so I can read the whole context of how it is used.

if I see a face, it is mine forever. but the name that goes with it? that is lost in 15 seconds...

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Re: Why command line still? (newbie)

Post by rambo919 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:57 am

JosephM wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:35 am
I'm not sure you should be speaking for most people :) Copy/Pasting is basic computer knowledge. If someone can't do that they are probably going to struggle following instructions to do it graphically as well.
You did not completely read what I said, most people only use ctrl+c for copy and ctrl+v for paste.... half the time no one bothers to tell them that linux complicates this by having to additionally press the third button shift as well and half that time they either forget it or they press it in such a way that only two buttons are actually pressed at the same time because they press in sequence..... I remember this tendency well from decades ago having to somehow get my parents to properly press crtl+alt-del properly...

If you want to mock people at least do it accurately?

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Re: Why command line still? (newbie)

Post by Pjotr » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:01 am

rambo919 wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:57 am
You did not completely read what I said, most people only use ctrl+c for copy and ctrl+v for paste....
Unnecessary complication. Use mouse to select a text line or block > right-click > copy /paste
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Re: Why command line still? (newbie)

Post by JosephM » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:05 am

Pjotr wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:01 am
rambo919 wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:57 am
You did not completely read what I said, most people only use ctrl+c for copy and ctrl+v for paste....
Unnecessary complication. Use mouse to select a text line or block > right-click > copy /paste
Like I said, basic computer skills :) People take things far too seriously.
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Re: Why command line still? (newbie)

Post by JosephM » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:07 am

half the time no one bothers to tell them that linux complicates this
Linux doesn't complicate this. Only the terminal does.
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Re: Why command line still? (newbie)

Post by gm10 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:16 am

rambo919 wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:57 am
You did not completely read what I said, most people only use ctrl+c for copy and ctrl+v for paste.... half the time no one bothers to tell them that linux complicates this by having to additionally press the third button shift as well and half that time they either forget it or they press it in such a way that only two buttons are actually pressed at the same time because they press in sequence.....
If it's just about 2 keys, it's not like you're used to use those combinations: Ctrl+Insert/Shift+Insert work for copy/paste everywhere including the terminal and even on Windows. Might not help with some laptop keyboards I guess. :P

Trying to find fault in key combinations sounds forced though. I you're used to using key combinations in the first place then CLI shouldn't give you trouble. If you're used to using the mouse then you'll never notice the difference.

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Re: Why command line still? (newbie)

Post by Moem » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:01 am

Pjotr wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:01 am
rambo919 wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:57 am
most people only use ctrl+c for copy and ctrl+v for paste....
Unnecessary complication. Use mouse to select a text line or block > right-click > copy /paste
I can never remember that. I use the easy way: ctrl+c for copy and ctrl+v for paste. Easy is what you're used to.
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Re: Why command line still? (newbie)

Post by Moem » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:06 am

gm10 wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:16 am
If it's just about 2 keys, it's not like you're used to use those combinations: Ctrl+Insert/Shift+Insert work for copy/paste everywhere including the terminal and even on Windows. Might not help with some laptop keyboards I guess. :P
Huh, never heard of those before! Whaddayaknow, it works.

I do think that needing the shift to copypaste is a hurdle to terminal use for newcomers. As is the lack of visual feedback when you type your password. They're small hurdles, and easily overcome once you know about them. But we can't expect people to guess them, and it would be good if they were mentioned in a very visible place. Maybe a specific welcome screen that pops up when you open the terminal for the first time?
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Re: Why command line still? (newbie)

Post by shawnhcorey » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:24 am

Turbojoe wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:17 pm
I'm just curious why the archaic command line inputs are still necessary.
Because UNIX is big, really, really big. It was created before any GUI. And it has lots and lots of stuff that would need a GUI front end before the command line could be eliminated.
Don't stop where the ink does.

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Re: Why command line still? (newbie)

Post by JosephM » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:30 am

But we can't expect people to guess them, and it would be good if they were mentioned in a very visible place. Maybe a specific welcome screen that pops up when you open the terminal for the first time?
You could use this argument in way too many places. Pretty soon you'd have this kind of thing popping up constantly. There are always small hurdles in learning something new. Regardless of what it is. If you really can't figure out, how long do you really think it would take to figure out how with a simple google search?
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Re: Why command line still? (newbie)

Post by rambo919 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:10 am

Most of those searches probably are something in the line of "why dont the copy and paste shortcuts work in linux command line"... I can imagine the kind of problems that kind of questioning can give.

But getting back to the actual OP.... terminal is still there because GUI development is lagging behind where it should be. In an ideal world you could do exactly the same things with CLI and GUI but nothing about Linux id ideal, it's always on the cusp of "there" but never further than close to. Half the struggle is convincing the old guard that the only way of getting everyone on board is hanging curtains and laying rugs in the perpetually dirty treehouse..... no one want's to take your CLI baby away from you, they themselves just want to try to avoid it completely where possible..... even in Windows there are some things you can only do via CLI though half of those are TERRIBLE design choices sometimes with no feedback at all.... I admit though my natural tendency to point out pink elephants in the room don't exactly help me preach.

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Re: Why command line still? (newbie)

Post by rambo919 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:14 am

shawnhcorey wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:24 am
Because UNIX is big, really, really big. It was created before any GUI. And it has lots and lots of stuff that would need a GUI front end before the command line could be eliminated.
Too many cooks spoil the broth.... choice exhaustion is a real thing you know. The one thing canonical managed to do right was somehow bring a measure of consensus but it never really performed miracles and had to actually give up on a few things the last few years. Still funny that they dropped unity for gnome when gnome got adept enough at copying unity...

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Re: Why command line still? (newbie)

Post by Turbojoe » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:27 am

Thanks to everyone for clearing up the command/terminal question for me. I feel more comfortable now and am plugging away with getting the desktop to my liking and exploring the many programs I had to pay for with Windows.

It looks like the thread is getting close to running off topic so I'm going to mark it solved. Thanks again for all the help. You can bet there will be plenty more questions as I get time to play with Linux. :wink:

Joe
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Re: [SOLVED] Why command line still? (newbie)

Post by trytip » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:16 am

one thing i just recently learned which is true in most terminals and if you don't use bleachbit to clear .bash_history using the UP arrow key⬆ in terminal will give you all the commands you typed so the terminal will remember them for you. the file can also be opened it's in your $HOME/.bash_history
don't know why it took me 7 years to find that out
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Re: [SOLVED] Why command line still? (newbie)

Post by gm10 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:25 am

trytip wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:16 am
one thing i just recently learned which is true in most terminals and if you don't use bleachbit to clear .bash_history using the UP arrow key⬆ in terminal will give you all the commands you typed so the terminal will remember them for you. the file can also be opened it's in your $HOME/.bash_history
don't know why it took me 7 years to find that out
If you enjoy that, here's my ~/.inputrc:

Code: Select all

$include /etc/inputrc

# command history search
"\e[A": history-search-backward
"\e[B": history-search-forward

# extended auto-completion with tab
set show-all-if-ambiguous on
set completion-ignore-case on
set show-all-if-ambiguous on

# colors
set colored-completion-prefix on
set colored-stats on

# misc
set blink-matching-paren on
set mark-symlinked-directories = on
Open a new terminal and partially type past commands and then use up/down to search through your history for matches, and more fun with Tab auto-completion and some other stuff.

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Re: [SOLVED] Why command line still? (newbie)

Post by srq2625 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:44 pm

trytip wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:16 am
one thing i just recently learned which is true in most terminals and if you don't use bleachbit to clear .bash_history using the UP arrow key⬆ in terminal will give you all the commands you typed so the terminal will remember them for you. the file can also be opened it's in your $HOME/.bash_history
don't know why it took me 7 years to find that out
You can also just type history and get a listing of all the commands you've used. Then you can type !nnn where "nnn" is the number of the command in the history to repeat the execution of that command.

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Re: [SOLVED] Why command line still? (newbie)

Post by trytip » Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:14 pm

@gm10 @srq2625
thanx: makes command line simple to remember, hope people will find it useful. i did 👍
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Re: Why command line still? (newbie)

Post by JerryF » Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:28 pm

Schultz wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:43 pm
JerryF wrote:
Which Windows version are you using? If it's 8 or 10, you may have a quick booting time because it's set for Fast Boot. Fast Boot hibernates Windows, so it loads quicker.
The OP had Vista (it was in his first post). In any event, Mate or Xfce will run snappier on that older machine. "How much so" is the proverbial $64,000 question. :)
Thanks Schultz. I did read that Turbojoe had Vista, but he might have an updated version of Windows.
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