What sends noobs running back to Windows?

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MurphCID
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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by MurphCID »

Hoser Rob wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 8:57 am
MurphCID wrote: Mon Apr 04, 2022 5:07 pm If you want to learn Linux you install Slackware. A universal truth. Even here: https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/slackware-15.html
LOL. Or maybe Gentoo? Or, as I've heard a few times, break Linux completely on a computer that isn't yours, so you can't just reinstall it.
Wow, I have not heard about Gentoo in a long time. Is it still around? I am wanting to try Slackware 15, but I just do not have the Linux knowledge to really get it working. Perhaps after I retire...?
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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by ScatteredThunder »

As a noob myself, I find it real hard when the simplest things such as installing the latest version of software or getting hardware acceleration for video decoding on browser (VAAPI) is simply a very difficult task on Linux. But that doesn't mean I give up, because I'm tired of repeatedly and consistently having to re-format Windows because of malware.

Perhaps the most annoying thing between Linux Vs. Windows right now for me is the higher energy consumption thus substantially decreased battery life on Linux compared to Windows. I mean, it doesn't make sense because Linux is supposed to have performance, stability and efficiency as its main principles. It just sucks!

But I don't know perhaps Linux shouldn't be aiming at popularity, or in other words it doesn't need to compete with Microsoft or Apple. Instead, the Linux community should only aim at offering a free and open alternative to the masses, which they already do, letting people know that having a good experience with free and open software is possible, and hopefully the philosophical questions will emerge on the individual eventually. This is the main reason why I still insist on using Linux!
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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by MurphCID »

I agree on the power issue, even with TLP, Linux just is not as efficient in the power arena as Windows. I wish those who know how to do things, get this area some attention, RSN.
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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by MurphCID »

So True! So very, very True! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UOjLhfvW8w
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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by DPM »

ScatteredThunder wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 1:18 pmsubstantially decreased battery life on Linux compared to Windows.
Still, I'd rather have six hours on Linux than eight hours on Windows. :)
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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by cretsiah »

ScatteredThunder wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 1:18 pm As a noob myself, I find it real hard when the simplest things such as installing the latest version of software or getting hardware acceleration for video decoding on browser (VAAPI) is simply a very difficult task on Linux. But that doesn't mean I give up, because I'm tired of repeatedly and consistently having to re-format Windows because of malware.

Perhaps the most annoying thing between Linux Vs. Windows right now for me is the higher energy consumption thus substantially decreased battery life on Linux compared to Windows. I mean, it doesn't make sense because Linux is supposed to have performance, stability and efficiency as its main principles. It just sucks!

But I don't know perhaps Linux shouldn't be aiming at popularity, or in other words it doesn't need to compete with Microsoft or Apple. Instead, the Linux community should only aim at offering a free and open alternative to the masses, which they already do, letting people know that having a good experience with free and open software is possible, and hopefully the philosophical questions will emerge on the individual eventually. This is the main reason why I still insist on using Linux!
DPM wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 10:39 pm
ScatteredThunder wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 1:18 pmsubstantially decreased battery life on Linux compared to Windows.
Still, I'd rather have six hours on Linux than eight hours on Windows. :)
on the weird green machine i have windows says 6 hrs but unfortunetly it crashes badly so i dumped lmde5 on it, i played a little bit of minetest and the battery indicator dropped from 23hours in idle desktop state to 5.6hrs while playing the game is this what you mean?
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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by vestur »

I FORTUNATELY bought a Linux hardcopy magazine with a CDROM (5 years ago) that mentioned that LinuxMint was the most friendliest Linux community AND the easiest way to introduce one self to Linux. IF NOT for that magazine I (perhaps) had given up before trying to even use Linux....

I still can remember that I had lots (LOTS) of bookmarks in Windows Microsoft that I could not translate to Linux. THAT was a real frustrations back then.

I still remember that I could not attach a harddrive formatted in Exfat to Linux in 2017. Now that isnt a problem anymore, but back in 2017 it was! ALL my movies on my Exfat formatted harddisc were NOT readable. HORROR. The Exfat format problem was solved though within a year.

The problem with the bookmarks was never solved, although I must admit that I am a newbie at Linux and I might have overlooked simple solutions to this very problem. But back then, this was a REAL problem for me. Why wouldnt Linux recognize my Windows bookmarks?

AND I simply COULD NOT BELIEVE THAT LINUX WAS SAFE WITHOUT ANTIVIRUS SOFTWARE! It took my a month on several Linux fora to convince me of the FACT that I DID NOT NEED any antivirus software.

I am now cheering on ANYONE I know to start using Linux, but most of the folks I know, are too blase and simply go along with the masses and buy a new Windows computer every 5 years, thinking their "old" computer has gone obsolete. I keep remembering AND PLEASING my friends and family though with my new Linux knowledge, which many of them have never heard of, but are wonderfully surprised about when they realize that LinuxMint is for free and SECURE and it still does work REALLY well on quite old hardware.
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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by RollyShed »

vestur wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 1:07 amI FORTUNATELY bought a Linux hardcopy magazine with a CDROM (5 years ago) that mentioned that LinuxMint
It was 10+ years ago and my brother's Australian computer magazine with the included DVD with Linux Mint. He didn't want it and it looked worth playing with. A year after that and the faster computer with Windows booted a couple of times meant chuck Windows and get serious.
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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by minty2025 »

ScatteredThunder wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 1:18 pm...
But I don't know perhaps Linux shouldn't be aiming at popularity, or in other words it doesn't need to compete with Microsoft or Apple. ...
I disagree, millions of people are about to be forced to buy new computers when they could carry on using their old machines with a lightweight Linux distro. My thin and light Jumper laptop is a couple of years old and was underpowered when I bought it, but with LM XFCE it zips along happily. Once I get Sim City 2000 and Alpha Centauri running on it, the Win 10 install will be redundant.

A more accessible experience would save unnecessary spending, and reduce the environmental impact of millions of PCs being built.
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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by Hoser Rob »

minty2025 wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 11:50 am
ScatteredThunder wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 1:18 pm...
But I don't know perhaps Linux shouldn't be aiming at popularity, or in other words it doesn't need to compete with Microsoft or Apple. ...
I disagree, millions of people are about to be forced to buy new computers when they could carry on using their old machines with a lightweight Linux distro. ...
Not sure Linux is really 'competing' there, neither MS nor Apple gives a tinker's damn about users who can't affor new computers.
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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by Drugwash »

About an hour ago I just fired up my old Windows98SE machine looking for some old catalog files. Haven't started it since March 2020, that is a little over two years. In this moment I am completely appaled at how I could stand using this Linux - any "modern" Linux actually, not bashing on Mint or anything - for the last... dunno... two-three-four years. There is no comparison in how snappy and precise that 1998 Soyo SY-6VBA133 board with Pentium III 667MHz + 512MB SDRAM PC133 + GeForce4 Ti4200 (128MB) videocard can be as opposed to this 2010 Samsung NP-R580 notebook with an upgraded i5 M460 dual-core HT CPU + 4GB DDR3 + NVIDIA GeForce 310M (512MB) videocard. Everything is exactly as I want it to be, everything works exactly as I want it to work, there is no "service" or whatever telling me I am not allowed to do this or that - yes, even mistakes at times - on my own computer, and so on. I own that computer in each and every possible way.

Not in (this) Linux. After all these years still couldn't get to the point where I could say I'm (almost/mostly) satisfied with the setup regardless of how hard I tried, and I'm still p!ssed off at the low space notifications that simply don't want to go away despite all my efforts to completely disable that useless crap through dconf. And there are many other nuisances that I just don't have the patience anymore to enumerate.

But it's all about the "standards": change them, don't backport to older OS versions and you got "progress". "Next version will be better, faster, more secure etc". Yeah, it never is any of that. As someone above said, it's an excuse to force people to buy newer, more expensive hardware for a much slower, bloated while at the same time stripped of options, useless software.

Rant over. And I didn't even have a drink - too poor to afford any.
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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by MurphCID »

DPM wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 10:39 pm
ScatteredThunder wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 1:18 pmsubstantially decreased battery life on Linux compared to Windows.
Still, I'd rather have six hours on Linux than eight hours on Windows. :)
Maybe, depends on how productive those hours are for me.
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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by MurphCID »

Hoser Rob wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 10:24 am
minty2025 wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 11:50 am
ScatteredThunder wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 1:18 pm...
But I don't know perhaps Linux shouldn't be aiming at popularity, or in other words it doesn't need to compete with Microsoft or Apple. ...
I disagree, millions of people are about to be forced to buy new computers when they could carry on using their old machines with a lightweight Linux distro. ...
Not sure Linux is really 'competing' there, neither MS nor Apple gives a tinker's damn about users who can't affor new computers.
That is a very good point, at some time in the future, everyone will be forced to do the upgrade to the latest and greatest. I played with the Mac a bit yesterday, and was so annoyed with it, that its days are numbered.
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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by kisho »

Linux noob here. The reason I installed it on one of my PCs to use it as a printer server (and now also a downloader and media player) when I got fed up by Windows repeatedly breaking printer sharing with their system patches. I've tried several Linux distributions to find ones where the system defaults and desktop settings made the most sense and most comfortable (Windows-like) for me. As for what makes me running back to Windows... in general the lack of obvious GUI solutions for my problems, which send me down a path of searching the web for solutions.
But to name actual examples:
- By default Linux and Windows saves the clock differently. The reason I know this that I had to look it up why the time was wrong when I used to dual-boot. I think it would be great if Linux offered a GUI option for this on the panel where you can set the time.
- I wanted to set up the system to have Num Lock on by default. But that setting was unavailable, had to manually install some package called "numlockx". I don't understand why is that not installed by default.
- Using TAB in terminal to autocomplete folder names is case sensitive by default and it takes away the usefulness for me.
- Enabling hardware acceleration for Firefox is really a big hassle.
- Installing a VNC server is overly complicated. I tried X11VNC but it doesn't save the settings. I ended up using krfb which kinda works, if I don't count some special keys like "AltGr".
- I make "folder.jpg"-s so Windows Explorer uses those as custom folder icons. This doesn't work if I browse these folders with Linux file browsers.
- Uninstalling some programs is a hassle. For example LibreOffice (which is installed by default on all distributions I've tried), coz apparently I have to uninstall every component one-by-one. It would be nice to have a chance to have an option what softwares to include at the OS installation.
- Sometimes more options are confusing. Like there are multiple versions in software manager for several programs. How should one know which one to pick?
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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by Arch_Enemy »

You have a good point about the clock.

Every time I boot to Windows, it screws the system clock up.

I haven't found a good response to this yet.
I have travelled 37629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition as a 50G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home. IF the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.
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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by diabolicbg »

Arch_Enemy wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 2:48 am You have a good point about the clock.

Every time I boot to Windows, it screws the system clock up.

I haven't found a good response to this yet.
Fixing incorrect clock / time settings while dual-booting Windows/Linux
It is enough to do it only in Linux. Copy the command line and run it in a terminal.
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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by Drugwash »

The Windows solution presented in that article has a drawback: disabling the online sync could lead to a large amount of desynchronisation over time in case the motherboard RTC (Real Time Clock) is off one way or the other - that is running faster or slower. Back when using XP I had an old board that had such a bad RTC, which forced me to build a small AHK script that would resync the clock much more often than the built-in service does.

There are Linux distributions that ask the user whether the board uses local time or UTC at install time, and they probably have such option in their configuration panel too.
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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by diabolicbg »

Drugwash wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 11:44 am The Windows solution presented in that article has a drawback: disabling the online sync could lead to a large amount of desynchronisation over time in case the motherboard RTC (Real Time Clock) is off one way or the other - that is running faster or slower. Back when using XP I had an old board that had such a bad RTC, which forced me to build a small AHK script that would resync the clock much more often than the built-in service does.

There are Linux distributions that ask the user whether the board uses local time or UTC at install time, and they probably have such option in their configuration panel too.
If you read the article carefully, you will see that it is only necessary to do one. I use a dual charge system. After every reinstall I have this problem. I enter the command ONLY in Linux, and Windows fixes itself after the third reboot at most, if not faster.
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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by Drugwash »

If you read my reply carefully you will see that it doesn't have anything to do with repeating that command multiple times, but with the hardware's quartz crystal oscillator being slightly off the designed frequency, which leads to increasing the time difference between the actual time and the calculated one when the online sync has been turned off (through that command).

In my case the online sync was actually on but the hardware oscillator was so much off that it required a much more frequent resync than what the system allows (max once a day AFAIK). So what I'm saying is that, if the online sync is being turned off the time can go increasingly faster or slower depending on how accurate the hardware oscillator runs.

Yesterday I fired up that 98SE machine as mentioned above and the BIOS time was about 80 minutes behind the real time, after a two years stand-by without any time adjustment. Considering Windows 9x have no built-in online sync my script was just what was needed, back when I was using it daily.
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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Post by diabolicbg »

Drugwash wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 12:55 pm If you read my reply carefully you will see that it doesn't have anything to do with repeating that command multiple times, but with the hardware's quartz crystal oscillator being slightly off the designed frequency, which leads to increasing the time difference between the actual time and the calculated one when the online sync has been turned off (through that command).

In my case the online sync was actually on but the hardware oscillator was so much off that it required a much more frequent resync than what the system allows (max once a day AFAIK). So what I'm saying is that, if the online sync is being turned off the time can go increasingly faster or slower depending on how accurate the hardware oscillator runs.

Yesterday I fired up that 98SE machine as mentioned above and the BIOS time was about 80 minutes behind the real time, after a two years stand-by without any time adjustment. Considering Windows 9x have no built-in online sync my script was just what was needed, back when I was using it daily.
I agree with that. It's a wonder the BIOS battery lasted that long and the difference is only 80 minutes. :D
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