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Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:01 am
by RollyShed
All this "It isn't Windows". Oh really? Take two users I've been "dealing with" today. One job was my partner's and a logo and for someone who needed it. All done on LibreOffice Write. That's also what she used on Windows until it self destructed. E-mails? Web with Firefox. Searching for information - Firefox. Exactly the same as on Windows.

Did she need instruction after being "dumped" on to Linux because Windows self-destructed (October update)? No.

The other, a teaching class and the laptop he has been given has Linux Mint on it (I installed it some time ago and a loan machine). Teaching? How to set out a spreadsheet (LibreOffice) and how to get around and find things on Firefox.

Neither know there is a terminal mode and won't ever need to know.

Always, what is the job to be done? What is the user's level? More than likely the programme used will be or can be, the same as on Windows. So we are talking Windows by a different name - only.

Other users to consider? No, both are single user machines.

Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:57 pm
by MurphCID
Eggnog wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:05 pm
I've often thought what sends most new linux users back to Windows is that linux isn't Windows. You can't even really use the "but muh gamez' excuse any longer. Maybe they're fed up with Windows 10, but what they want is linux that's just like Windows. I've seen it more times that I care to think about. With something like Mint, they really don't have to set anything up, really. But it isn't Windows, ya know.
My wife is a case in point. She wants it to work like Windows, and for her familiar programs to work as they do in Windows. She hates change. She would still be using Windows 98 if she could.

Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:03 pm
by RollyShed
Read - viewtopic.php?f=58&t=289096

Towards the bottom of page one. Mint is Windows that always works is what is being said. It is simple "How to drive Windows without needing to call the AA (or AAA in USA) every day because the car has broken down - again, or got a flat tyre - again".

I keep telling people Linux/Windows is like a car, the steering wheel and gear lever are the same, the engine under the bonnet doesn't concern most drivers.

If you are into performance, boring out the engine = using terminal mode, then yes, there is a difference, one might be a Rolls Royce (that gets flat tyres and is expensive) and the other a Ford.

Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:09 am
by michael louwe
Eg Canonical Inc removing backwards compatibility support for 32bit/i386 software(= legacy games and apps/programs) in 64bit Ubuntu 19.10/20.04 and later sends noobs running back to Windows.

Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:57 am
by MurphCID
michael louwe wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:09 am
Eg Canonical Inc removing backwards compatibility support for 32bit/i386 software(= legacy games and apps/programs) in 64bit Ubuntu 19.10/20.04 and later sends noobs running back to Windows.
That is going to hurt Linux badly. Gamers, I hate to say it, but they push the boundaries, and without gamers, we as a community are going to lose traction in the Real World.

Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:47 pm
by michael louwe
MurphCID wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:57 am
That is going to hurt Linux badly. Gamers, I hate to say it, but they push the boundaries, and without gamers, we as a community are going to lose traction in the Real World.
.
Canonical/Ubuntu has been the top dog for desktop Linux. So, they likely thought they could be the first Linux OS vendor to remove backwards compatibility support for 32bit/i386 software/games/apps.
....... Like they say, "Pride goes before a fall" = Windows rise.

P S - I am also against the removal of 32bit Live Linux ISO/image files because they can be run on modern computers with 64bit CPUs whose owners are non-power users and may prefer to use less computer resources.

Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:31 am
by MurphCID
michael louwe wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:47 pm
MurphCID wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:57 am
That is going to hurt Linux badly. Gamers, I hate to say it, but they push the boundaries, and without gamers, we as a community are going to lose traction in the Real World.
.
Canonical/Ubuntu has been the top dog for desktop Linux. So, they likely thought they could be the first Linux OS vendor to remove backwards compatibility support for 32bit/i386 software/games/apps.
....... Like they say, "Pride goes before a fall" = Windows rise.

P S - I am also against the removal of 32bit Live Linux ISO/image files because they can be run on modern computers with 64bit CPUs whose owners are non-power users and may prefer to use less computer resources.
I think they thought they were a big as Apple, and could tell the peasants to suck it up and live with it. However they discovered that they are NOT Apple, and cannot just do what they want.

Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:18 pm
by djph
michael louwe wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:47 pm

P S - I am also against the removal of 32bit Live Linux ISO/image files because they can be run on modern computers with 64bit CPUs whose owners are non-power users and may prefer to use less computer resources.
You're not actually saving all that much -- maybe 10-15% heavier memory wise than an identical 32-bit install. So ... base mint, we're talking like 45-90MB or so to use 64-bit, and not be encumbered by the 4G limit on memory (because face it, you will eventually want to throw another stick in at some point...)

Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:14 pm
by MurphCID
I would love to dual boot, but I think that Winders 10 keeps breaking things, so I will have to stick with pure systems for now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a9DCjLMuMk

Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:44 am
by Inundated
MurphCID wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:14 pm
I would love to dual boot, but I think that Winders 10 keeps breaking things, so I will have to stick with pure systems for now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a9DCjLMuMk
I easily got this laptop dual booting with Windows 7, which it came with, and Mint. But when the Windows 7 EOL comes at the end of the year, I might just reallocate the entire HD to Linux.

Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:50 am
by carum carvi
This post about what makes newbies go back to windows, must be one of the longest running posts on this very forum.

I have bookmarked this post because I always find it interesting to read WHAT makes newbies wanna go back to that darn Windows. Why do I find it interesting? Because I want to promote LinuxMint. Why do I want to promote Linux? BecauseI really think LinuxMInt is a gem.

I didnt realize the value of LinuxMint when I "discovered" it. My initial thought was, that if an OS like LinuxMint was this small and not popular, there must be something wrong or difficult about it. But looking back it was all fear of the unknown that held me back trying out LinuxMint seriously.

Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:56 am
by MurphCID
Apparently many distros are NOT really too excited about fixing regressions, broken parts, and just slamming stuff out there. Dedoimedo has a less than glowing review of OpenSuSe 15.1 https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/ope ... -15-1.html And while he is a bit opinionated, I find him at least willing to state when there are problems. His review of Plasma 5.16 is an example, but is Plasma an operating system or a window manager? Is KDE a flavor of Linux or a Window manager?

One of the things I really like about Mint is the Mint Team finds and stomps on bugs and fixes problems, it seems like others just slam out point releases which fix some things, but break others. Or is that a Red Hat/Fedora/Ubuntu issue? Noobs/Newbies just want things to work. For that matter most people just want things to work without having to tinker.

Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:55 am
by ColdBootII
MurphCID wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:56 am
Dedoimedo has a less than glowing review of OpenSuSe 15.1 https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/ope ... -15-1.html
:sigh: Just read that, thanks... Others are running back to Windows while It seems I'll be running away from Plasma 5 for yet another 6 years. :mrgreen:

Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:37 am
by BG405
ColdBootII wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:55 am
Others are running back to Windows while It seems I'll be running away from Plasma 5 for yet another 6 years. :mrgreen:
Plasma 5 did take a bit of getting used to after the excellent Plasma 4 and does have its issues, but the latest Plasma 5 seems very good overall; just a few tweaks needed I think, such as being able to set the calendar format correctly. Might be worth a look at the latest one if you haven't already?

I'm on Plasma 5.16.2 & the issue I was having with the panel & menu transparency flickering seems to have been fixed. They've also added categories to the notification area, though I think that needs a bit more work to get it right. Probably numerous other things that I haven't noticed .. :)

Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:46 pm
by ColdBootII
Hi, BG405

i'm a big fun of the DE but every time I've tried it so far, something's not working. The little things are annoying me the most, like not being able to turn off zone info in clock applet in Fedora 29. :mrgreen:

Anyway, biding my time in the GTK lands is good to me, there's not much to complain about and I certainly learned useful things here.

Cheers! :D

Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:21 pm
by carum carvi
MurphCID wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:56 am
Apparently many distros are NOT really too excited about fixing regressions, broken parts, and just slamming stuff out there.

Noobs/Newbies just want things to work. For that matter most people just want things to work without having to tinker.
I just wrote a glowing statement about how gem like LinuxMint was, when some broken package borked any new clean install of LM19 Cinnamon. It's the first time that I had ever encountered such a serious problem. I had to change OS because of it, temporarily.

Newbies indeed just want things to work. Any newbie who is currently trying to do a new install of LM19/19.1 wont be able to do updates at all. He must first figure out what hit him. Hopefully he will find this forum. Then hopefully he will find the solution offered. And then he must be able to use terminal commands, which is quite a daunting experience if you have never seen/used such a commandline screen before.

Basic usage of LinuxMint must work flawlessly, otherwise newbies will run back to Windows.

Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:23 pm
by gm10
carum carvi wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:21 pm
Basic usage of LinuxMint must work flawlessly, otherwise newbies will run back to Windows.
Agreed. That said, I'm sometimes surprised to how much trouble some of them go to get it working regardless.

Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:14 pm
by carum carvi
gm10 wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:23 pm
I'm sometimes surprised to how much trouble some of them go to get it working regardless.
That's probably due to the excellent help on this forum. I have returned to Windows 2 times before, but that was during a period in which I didnt know the existence of this forum. Once I knew this forum existed I instantly could make big jumps in gaining knowledge because of the experienced and friendly help that was offered here.

Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:19 pm
by MurphCID
gm10 wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:23 pm
carum carvi wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:21 pm
Basic usage of LinuxMint must work flawlessly, otherwise newbies will run back to Windows.
Agreed. That said, I'm sometimes surprised to how much trouble some of them go to get it working regardless.
It is because they have a generation of Microsoft and Windows use behind them in some cases.

Re: What sends noobs running back to Windows?

Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:24 pm
by Moem
carum carvi wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:21 pm
Any newbie who is currently trying to do a new install of LM19/19.1 wont be able to do updates at all. He must first figure out what hit him.
I'm on 19.1, I apply all updates, and nothing hit me. I honestly don't know what you are talking about.