Linux Mint Forums

1. If It Ain't Broke Don't Fix It.
(I wish I had heeded this advice many times. It would have saved me much trouble. On the positive side, you can learn a lot by breaking and having to fix things.)

2. You Might Be Better Off Sticking With Windows For Now.
(I really hate to say that, but too many people come to Linux unwilling to spend any time or effort learning about or adapting to Linux. They have unrealistic expectations. They may not be ready for it, and will just get discouraged and never give Linux a fair shot.)

3. Keep Windows Alongside Linux Until You Feel Comfortable Leaving It Behind.
( This will lessen your anxiety until you learn the basics of Linux. Except for a few special use cases, you can do anything on Linux that you can do with Windows. Look for good alternatives within Linux for the things you use in Windows. Usually the same software application will work with both.)

4. Be Willing Try Try Other Linux Distributions And Desktop Versions.
(You may find one distribution meets your needs, or feels more comfortable than another. The same thing goes with desktop versions and their default applications.

5. Read About The History of Linux, Various Distributions, and The Free Software Movement.
(Understanding the motivations and philosophies behind Linux and its roots will give you a greater appreciation for what Linux is all about.)

6. Share Your Passion For Linux.
(Share but don't evangelize. Don't pressure people to use Linux. Don't fight about which distribution is best. Passion is great, obnoxiousness is not.)

7. Give Back.
(Money, time, testing, whatever you can do or have the ability to do, give back and keep Linux moving forward.)



Add your ideas and suggestions to help newbies along in their move into Linux.
Thanks.

0.999. Linux is NOT Windows. It is not always easy, but it is the first step to learning and enjoying Linux. http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

I still chuckle every time I get to the part about Legos.

3a. If you dual-boot, force yourself to use Linux. Treat Windows as a safety net; comforting to have, but not something you want to use on a regular basis. You will never become proficient with Linux if you only use it for a couple of hours on Saturday morning.

KBD47 wrote: ⤴Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:07 pm 2. You Might Be Better Off Sticking With Windows For Now.
(I really hate to say that, but too many people come to Linux unwilling to spend any time or effort learning about or adapting to Linux. They have unrealistic expectations. They may not be ready for it, and will just get discouraged and never give Linux a fair shot.)

I'm fine with all of them except perhaps that one. While it's a fair assessment, maybe it should be the last item in the list, under the heading "If all else fails..." I very rarely see people on the forums here with unrealistic expectations.

catweazel wrote: ⤴Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:37 am I very rarely see people on the forums here with unrealistic expectations.

That's because many of that type either keep their heads down or just plain arnt the forum using sort.... they make it as far as IRC, run into what to them is baffling obstacles or rude "helper" and then decide it's just not worth the effort/pain.

I don't know, I think there are plenty of people for whom a forum is a feasible option but IRC is just a bridge too far.

I saw em plenty of times.

Remember the "welcome" screen upon a new installation has a link I think to automatically start hexchat and that opens to the help channel.... it's a regular occurrence to have someone pop in that has no clue how IRC works or that there even IS a chat channel because they don't actually read the intro and just start begging for help from anyone nearby to somehow orient themselves.

I would add: Try it before installing it.
Create a bootable USB and use it to do some actual work. Choose a small task and do it from Linux. A bootable USB will automatically mount your disks, so you can save your work in its normal place.

Linux ain't Windows
People get so use to doing the workarounds for Windows' foibles that they get upset when they have to learn a new set of workarounds for Linux' foibles. (And yes, Linux has foibles.)

Linux ain't no silver bullet
No software will ever fix all your problems. The question you should be answering is: Is Linux better than Windows for my work? Can I achieve what I want easier in Linux? If the answer is no, you're better off sticking to Windows.

KBD47 wrote: ⤴Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:07 pm 2. You Might Be Better Off Sticking With Windows For Now.
(I really hate to say that, but too many people come to Linux unwilling to spend any time or effort learning about or adapting to Linux. They have unrealistic expectations. They may not be ready for it, and will just get discouraged and never give Linux a fair shot.)

Do Have To Agree With That One:
- - they are seeking an Free Version of Windows.
so they get a Huge disappointment.

especially when they wish their shiny new machine, to be able to run that Windows Replacement,,
& complain, when it just plain won't do that.

BenTrabetere wrote: ⤴Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:57 am 0.999. Linux is NOT Windows. It is not always easy, but it is the first step to learning and enjoying Linux. http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

I still chuckle every time I get to the part about Legos.

3a. If you dual-boot, force yourself to use Linux. Treat Windows as a safety net; comforting to have, but not something you want to use on a regular basis. You will never become proficient with Linux if you only use it for a couple of hours on Saturday morning.

Good points.
It used to be fairly simple to dual-boot Linux with Windows. But with EFI/Secure Boot and Windows messing up Linux with updates I wonder if it is not better to start with a second computer or pick up an inexpensive second machine to dedicate to Linux to get used to it without having to fight with Windows. Then replace Windows on the other machine after the user is comfortable with Linux.

catweazel wrote: ⤴Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:37 am

KBD47 wrote: ⤴Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:07 pm 2. You Might Be Better Off Sticking With Windows For Now.
(I really hate to say that, but too many people come to Linux unwilling to spend any time or effort learning about or adapting to Linux. They have unrealistic expectations. They may not be ready for it, and will just get discouraged and never give Linux a fair shot.)

I'm fine with all of them except perhaps that one. While it's a fair assessment, maybe it should be the last item in the list, under the heading "If all else fails..." I very rarely see people on the forums here with unrealistic expectations.

Fair point. That might have been best for last.
So many times I see a newbie post that goes something like this:
I want to install Linux, but I don't want to lose my ability to run MS Office, or Adobe Photoshop, and all of my computer games, and I really don't want to have to learn anything about Linux....
I ignore such posts as it is clear they are in no way ready to give Linux a serious chance or put in any effort

shawnhcorey wrote: ⤴Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:05 am I would add: Try it before installing it.
Create a bootable USB and use it to do some actual work. Choose a small task and do it from Linux. A bootable USB will automatically mount your disks, so you can save your work in its normal place.

That brings up a great point. In the past it was my go-to suggestion as well, but it seems like there are more and more posts that a user points out the live environment worked fine, but once they installed Linux everything went sideways and it no longer worked like the live iso.
Am I imagining it, or is it more and more the case that users really can't see how Linux handles their hardware without a full installation?

KBD47 wrote: ⤴Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:50 am

shawnhcorey wrote: ⤴Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:05 am I would add: Try it before installing it.
Create a bootable USB and use it to do some actual work. Choose a small task and do it from Linux. A bootable USB will automatically mount your disks, so you can save your work in its normal place.

That brings up a great point. In the past it was my go-to suggestion as well, but it seems like there are more and more posts that a user points out the live environment worked fine, but once they installed Linux everything went sideways and it no longer worked like the live iso.
Am I imagining it, or is it more and more the case that users really can't see how Linux handles their hardware without a full installation?

Yes, an USB would use generic drivers for the hardware. But did they really test their high-demand app on the Live USB?

shawnhcorey wrote: ⤴Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:03 pm
Yes, an USB would use generic drivers for the hardware. But did they really test their high-demand app on the Live USB?

Good question.

KBD47 wrote:That brings up a great point. In the past it was my go-to suggestion as well, but it seems like there are more and more posts that a user points out the live environment worked fine, but once they installed Linux everything went sideways and it no longer worked like the live iso.

.
Wrt the testing of peripheral devices, they should work or not work the same for the Live and installed environment.

Post-installation issues can occur because of PEBKAC mostly, eg improper partitioning of the hard-drive during installation(= having a Root or / partition of only 10GB), improperly upgrading the Linux kernel after installing proprietary graphics or Wifi drivers, etc.

KBD47 wrote: ⤴Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:39 am It used to be fairly simple to dual-boot Linux with Windows. But with EFI/Secure Boot and Windows messing up Linux with updates I wonder if it is not better to start with a second computer or pick up an inexpensive second machine to dedicate to Linux to get used to it without having to fight with Windows. Then replace Windows on the other machine after the user is comfortable with Linux.

This is what I'm doing. If I go the dual boot route, I'll probably boot into Linux once or twice and never touch it again.

There's a big difference between learning Linux at leisure versus being on a deadline and needing to spend a few hours trying to figure out how to do something on Linux that takes 5 minutes to do on Windows (due to familiarity and already having favorite utilities/automated scripts for the job).

KBD47 wrote: ⤴Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:43 am Fair point. That might have been best for last.
So many times I see a newbie post that goes something like this:
I want to install Linux, but I don't want to lose my ability to run MS Office, or Adobe Photoshop, and all of my computer games, and I really don't want to have to learn anything about Linux....
I ignore such posts as it is clear they are in no way ready to give Linux a serious chance or put in any effort

You almost make it sound more like getting a girlfriend rather than changing out one servant for another.... Most people dont have "relationships" with their OS they want it as invisible as possible and get to those third party apps... if the OS itself gets in the way of getting to those end goals then it's useless to them. The very idea of merging into a OS culture is completely alien to the common windows user who things of his PC as more of a slave than anything else.... linux gets mocked sometimes BECAUSE of the culture though not HALF as much as apple.... you cant go wrong with mocking apple lemmings.

I sometimes wonder if these obvious truths are so baffling to so many long time linux converts because they never really have proper tech level contact with anyone outside of the FOSS cultural bubble. They denigrate windows as part of their culture but then get miffed when someone genuinely prefers what windows can give them even after trying linux because they cannot fathom anyone NOT using a OS ecosystem because of a love for it.... you do get the win10 evangelizers but those people are almost as bad as the apple lot.... Most windows users don't give two hoots about windows itself, what they care about is access to their preferred third party apps/games and windows is just usually the easiest way to do it. I hate M$ as much as the next guy but even the devil deserves his due.

I'm not saying any of this to personally attack anyone it's just odd general behavior I have noticed over the years and thread was a goodish example of it. A BIG problem that many don't want to address (also mentioned in the link) is over-evangelizing of Linux as a "Free Windows Replacer" and most of the puzzled questions as mentioned in what I quoted result from that and deserve to be properly answered so that at least the REAL lies (like "reviews" that laud every second thing about a distro as AWESOME.... without highlighting it's problems properly) can get countered other than leaving potential switchers needlessly alienated. On one hand you have a set of people determined to "convert" the whole world being a carrot made out of candy and on the other hand you have the "hardcore" set of people demanding these "kids get off my lawn" or "remove these curtains from my treehouse".... in the end the friction caused by this pull push only causes obviously avoidable problems and actually having to keep explaining this in detail is ridiculous.

You want to have linux continue being mostly ignored beyond mild curiosity lets keep going like we have no problem.... just know that this means throwing away any right to complain about linux not being "good enough" to serve the purpose of anything beyond a "set of lego's". People that permanently tinker with their cars are "odd", people that permanently tinker with their OS are also "odd"... nothing wrong with being odd im odd enough myself... the problem is those odd people demanding that anyone driving a car also be able to pull it apart and put it together again... as nice as that would be no amount of righteous indignation that it isn't the case is ever going to make it so.... snobbery is bad mkay?

KBD47 wrote: ⤴Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:39 am Good points.
It used to be fairly simple to dual-boot Linux with Windows. But with EFI/Secure Boot and Windows messing up Linux with updates I wonder if it is not better to start with a second computer or pick up an inexpensive second machine to dedicate to Linux to get used to it without having to fight with Windows. Then replace Windows on the other machine after the user is comfortable with Linux.

UEFI is the devil in a fancy suit (very fancy suit sometimes)... even TRYING to accommodate it leads to needless impotent rage.... And the various slightly deficient tutorials on how to do so does not exactly help... tried it recently think I'm just gonna format the thing in legacy boot mode and start again if I cant manage to find a way to switch win10 from gpt to mbr and actually have the damn thing boot.

rui no onna wrote: ⤴Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:01 pm This is what I'm doing. If I go the dual boot route, I'll probably boot into Linux once or twice and never touch it again.

There's a big difference between learning Linux at leisure versus being on a deadline and needing to spend a few hours trying to figure out how to do something on Linux that takes 5 minutes to do on Windows (due to familiarity and already having favorite utilities/automated scripts for the job).

If you don't need any specific apps it can be very easy to stay out of a windows install.... the problem comes when wine just plain refuses to work or you get infuriated that the fullscreen video keeps playing on the wrong screen no matter what settings you use or whatever.... then you switch between windows and linux for a while like between two wives that are sisters.... annoying but needed sometimes if you have the energy to handle it.

rui no onna wrote: ⤴Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:01 pm

KBD47 wrote: ⤴Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:39 am It used to be fairly simple to dual-boot Linux with Windows. But with EFI/Secure Boot and Windows messing up Linux with updates I wonder if it is not better to start with a second computer or pick up an inexpensive second machine to dedicate to Linux to get used to it without having to fight with Windows. Then replace Windows on the other machine after the user is comfortable with Linux.

This is what I'm doing. If I go the dual boot route, I'll probably boot into Linux once or twice and never touch it again.

There's a big difference between learning Linux at leisure versus being on a deadline and needing to spend a few hours trying to figure out how to do something on Linux that takes 5 minutes to do on Windows (due to familiarity and already having favorite utilities/automated scripts for the job).

Yes, of course. When changing tools, you have to evaluate if the time you will save is longer than the time you'll spend learning/adapting-to it.

rambo919 wrote: ⤴Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:08 pm linux gets mocked sometimes BECAUSE of the culture though not HALF as much as apple.... you cant go wrong with mocking apple lemmings.

Squeak, squeak, squeak. I love my iPad.