How to Spoil the Stew, and guarantee a new user will never come back

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151tom
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Re: How to Spoil the Stew, and guarantee a new user will never come back

Post by 151tom » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:01 am

catweazel wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:41 am
Perhaps the problem isn't other people.
That's a possibility.
catweazel wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:41 am
On a similar note, you cannot change others, but you have full control of your reaction.
This is very true however I will return fire when fired upon.

FWIW
I'm not always good at expressing myself where writing or explaining in writing is involved.
Last edited by 151tom on Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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catweazel
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Re: How to Spoil the Stew, and guarantee a new user will never come back

Post by catweazel » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:05 am

151tom wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:01 am
FWIW
I'm not always good at expressing myself where writing or explaining in writing is involved.
In most cases we can elicit the information we need so you shouldn't be concerned about not having the eloquence of J R R Tolkien.
¡uʍop ǝpısdn sı buıɥʇʎɹǝʌǝ os ɐıןɐɹʇsnɐ ɯoɹɟ ɯ,ı

151tom
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Re: How to Spoil the Stew, and guarantee a new user will never come back

Post by 151tom » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:06 am

Boy I remember those days very well. :lol:

download/file.php?id=43861

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Re: How to Spoil the Stew, and guarantee a new user will never come back

Post by Moem » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:36 am

Mod note:
The WiFi problem is now here so more people will see it and because us mods are just mean like that, apparently.
Image

If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!

151tom
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Re: How to Spoil the Stew, and guarantee a new user will never come back

Post by 151tom » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:39 am

Moem wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:36 am
Mod note:
us mods are just mean like that, apparently.
Touche! :lol:

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phd21
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Re: How to Spoil the Stew, and guarantee a new user will never come back

Post by phd21 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:22 pm

HI AZgl1500,

I just read your post and the good replies to it. Here are my thoughts on this as well.

When I first started using Linux and Linux Mint, I downloaded Kali and burned it to a DVD then later to a USB stick to try it out. It is as has been stated for people interested in penetration testing and security auditing. Just because you may have received an uncooperative or even hostile reply from a forum member does not mean that all members of a forum are that way.

I also found that most of the Kali penetration testing and security auditing applications can be installed in Linux Mint as well. It is necessary to have a WiFi adapter that supports various features like "monitor mode", "packet injection", "packet sniffing", and not all do, but they are inexpensive to purchase. If you want to test things against AC routers and other AC WiFi adapters (5ghz), you will need a WiFi adapter that is also "dual band". My low-cost USB WiFi adapter with the Realtek RT2870 chipset (Like a Panda 300mbps plug-n-play) works great with Linux Mint and supports monitor mode, but it is only a single band 2.4ghz. The links below have other recommendations as well.
Amazon.com: Panda 300Mbps Wireless N USB Adapter $14us
https://www.amazon.com/Panda-300Mbps-Wi ... B00EQT0YK2

Amazon.com: Panda N600 Dual Band (2.4GHz and 5.0GHz) 300Mbps Wireless N USB Adapter $25us
https://www.amazon.com/Panda-2-4GHz-300 ... J8MHF0BEP3

Amazon.com: Panda Wireless PAU09 N600 Dual Band (2.4GHz and 5GHz) Wireless N USB Adapter W/ Dual 5dBi Antennas $50us
https://www.amazon.com/Panda-Wireless-P ... J8MHF0BEP3

Amazon.com: Alfa Long-Range Dual-Band AC1200 Wireless USB 3.0 Wi-Fi Adapter w/2x 5dBi External Antennas – 2.4GHz 300Mbps/5GHz 867Mbps – 802.11ac & A, B, G, N: $50 us
https://www.amazon.com/Long-Range-Dual- ... d_wg=kSHEg

Amazon.com: ALFA AC1900 WiFi Adapter - 1900 Mbps 802.11ac Long-Range Dual Band USB 3.0 Wi-Fi Network Adapter w/4x 5dBi $59us
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MZD7Z76/re ... 65ee31ead5

Re newer Alfa adapters
New Alfa awus036ach help
https://forums.kali.org/showthread.php? ... #post71394
I recommend using two WiFi adapters especially if you use WiFi to connect to your Internet (isp) or an Ethernet and a good WiFi adapter, so that when you are "monitoring" or capturing packets or experimenting with the various applications using the secondary WiFi adapter it will not interfere with your actual Internet connection on the primary Internet adapter.

* How To Pentest Your WPA/WPA2 WiFi With Kali Linux |
https://www.pentestingshop.com/how-to-p ... ali-linux/

Best Kali Linux Compatible USB Wi-Fi adapters 2018 – Ethical hacking and penetration testing
https://miloserdov.org/?p=250

The top Wi-Fi pen testing tools in Kali Linux 2.0 | Network World
https://www.networkworld.com/article/30 ... ux-20.html

Penetration Testing Tools - Kali Linux - click "tools"
https://tools.kali.org/

*** DOC/Kali Linux Wireless Penetration Testing Beginner-s Guide.pdf at master · MonkSunBoy/DOC
https://github.com/MonkSunBoy/DOC/blob/ ... 0Guide.pdf

Tips:
- when putting your WiFi adapter into "monitor" mode which creates a new interface "mon0" (monitor0), you may have to run the command twice. If it still does not create the new monitor interface "mon0" when you re-run just "sudo airmon-ng", then your WiFi adapter may not support "monitor mode".

example: command to put WifI adpter into "monitor mode", use whatever your WiFi adapter name is from "sudo iwconfig" which may or may not be "wlan0"

Code: Select all

sudo airmon-ng start wlan0
To stop monitor mode

Code: Select all

sudo airmon-ng stop mon0
To test WiFi adapter for "injection" capability

Code: Select all

sudo aireplay-ng --test wlan0
- When using Wireshark on my Linux Mint KDE system I had to start it from a console terminal prompt with sudo root permission because some of the underlying programs required root permission.

To run wireshark without "sudo", run this command once.

Code: Select all

sudo chmod +x /usr/bin/dumpcap
Hope this helps ...
Phd21: Mint KDE 17.3 & 18.3, 64-bit Awesome OS, Ancient Dell OptiPlex 780 Core2Duo E8400 3GHz,4gb Ram,256gb SDD, Video: Intel 4 Graphics, DVD Lightscribe. Why I use KDE?:https://opensource.com/life/15/4/9-reasons-to-use-kde

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Re: How to Spoil the Stew, and guarantee a new user will never come back

Post by Portreve » Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:05 am

Clearly, there are any number of instances where members of various different distro communities treat newcomers inappropriately, but the thing to remember is the GNU+Linux world is mostly enthusiast-driven and overall is not a commercial endeavor. Moreover, a great many newcomers have no clue about technology, no realistic expectations, do not have an enthusiast mindset, and even possibly have a classic "AOL user" want-everything-on-a-silver-platter mentality. There's no obligation here for said community to care, and a great many don't. Add to that the tendency for tech nerds to lack social skills or to be specifically anti-social, and now one has I think a better picture of the situation as it actually is.

Obviously, as time has passed, the GNU+Linux community has expanded significantly and includes the full spectrum of people and personality types, and it is now large enough that self-segregation has resulted in the sort of differentiation described up-thread between different types of distros (Arch vs. Linux Mint, for example) which is good, but naturally if we're looking at this from a newcomer's perspective, it can be a challenge.

But is it a problem? Well, consider the following pair of parallel hypothetical situations: a person has a car and knows very little apart from driving it. Then one day they decide to learn to work on their own car, and:

A. They quickly become overwhelmed and don't know how the heck to begin; or

B. Start working on it but manage to screw up a bunch of things.

Either way, they are turned off on that particular brand of car or (as ridiculous as this seems) turned off on cars altogether.

Who's responsibility is this? Should we blame a given car maker? Should we blame the auto industry in general? Now, obviously, no reasonable observer here would lay the blame at either of those options' feet because "in reality" nobody's going to give up driving a car on the basis that they don't know how to do engine repair.
Peoples of the universe, please attend carefully: the message which follows is vital to the future of you all.

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Re: How to Spoil the Stew, and guarantee a new user will never come back

Post by MintBean » Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:27 am

Great points, Portreve.
Honestly I don't find communities such as Kali, Arch toxic in the slightest, which is not to say there isn't the odd toxic member amongst them.

The truth of it is this- not every community on the web is aimed at newbies with newbie questions, and why should it be? You wouldn't expect to walk into a final year university course with no training in the subject and be humoured. It would waste the time of others and would do you no favours either.

The stew wasn't spoiled, it's just that you expected the stew catered to your tastes, whereas in reality it's tailored to a specific niche as they quite clearly state.

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Re: How to Spoil the Stew, and guarantee a new user will never come back

Post by Portreve » Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:17 am

Here's something I think specifically spoils the stew:

There is a pervasive attitude within the libre software community of writing something (program, driver, component) only with their own itch to scratch as motivation, and the thought that if you want that thing to also do X or Y or Z, then “roll up your own sleeves". The thing is good enough for their own needs, and they just don't care beyond that.

When someone, whether newcomer or not, encounters that kind of situation, it is not a very pleasant experience. One of the purposes behind the libre community's existence is to be a community, not just a bunch of disconnected, disinterested individuals "out for themselves and the **** with anyone else".

I've seen that with specific software projects, and I think it's the case with certain distros, which is basically the core of what this thread's OP and many others here are getting at.
Peoples of the universe, please attend carefully: the message which follows is vital to the future of you all.

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Re: How to Spoil the Stew, and guarantee a new user will never come back

Post by all41 » Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:28 pm

Portreve wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:05 am
Clearly, there are any number of instances where members of various different distro communities treat newcomers inappropriately, but the thing to remember is the GNU+Linux world is mostly enthusiast-driven and overall is not a commercial endeavor. Moreover, a great many newcomers have no clue about technology, no realistic expectations, do not have an enthusiast mindset, and even possibly have a classic "AOL user" want-everything-on-a-silver-platter mentality. There's no obligation here for said community to care, and a great many don't. Add to that the tendency for tech nerds to lack social skills or to be specifically anti-social, and now one has I think a better picture of the situation as it actually is.

Obviously, as time has passed, the GNU+Linux community has expanded significantly and includes the full spectrum of people and personality types, and it is now large enough that self-segregation has resulted in the sort of differentiation described up-thread between different types of distros (Arch vs. Linux Mint, for example) which is good, but naturally if we're looking at this from a newcomer's perspective, it can be a challenge.

But is it a problem? Well, consider the following pair of parallel hypothetical situations: a person has a car and knows very little apart from driving it. Then one day they decide to learn to work on their own car, and:

A. They quickly become overwhelmed and don't know how the heck to begin; or

B. Start working on it but manage to screw up a bunch of things.

Either way, they are turned off on that particular brand of car or (as ridiculous as this seems) turned off on cars altogether.

Who's responsibility is this? Should we blame a given car maker? Should we blame the auto industry in general? Now, obviously, no reasonable observer here would lay the blame at either of those options' feet because "in reality" nobody's going to give up driving a car on the basis that they don't know how to do engine repair.
+1 @Portreve, Insightful and well written.
Proud to be a supporter and monthly contributor to Mint.

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Re: How to Spoil the Stew, and guarantee a new user will never come back

Post by CaptainKirksChair » Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:42 pm

Portreve wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:17 am
There is a pervasive attitude within the libre software community of writing something (program, driver, component) only with their own itch to scratch as motivation, and the thought that if you want that thing to also do X or Y or Z, then “roll up your own sleeves". The thing is good enough for their own needs, and they just don't care beyond that.
Being a Visual Basic programmer from way back, I would start practically every project that way. I know what *I* want and if someone found it useful or not, I didn't care. But that was just in the beginning. As the project grew (and they all do) I was always asking, "But what if someone does this?" Because trust me, they will. This is when I found out that programming is about 40% error handling. When you write a sub or function, the amount of code grows invariably and the error handling has to grow with it. So you start out with "This will benefit me" and end up with "This will benefit anyone."

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Re: How to Spoil the Stew, and guarantee a new user will never come back

Post by AZgl1500 » Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:55 pm

Been away from the computer since about noon yesterday, and now reading down thru all the new posts, there are a lot salient points to be made there... and especially the long one by Phil phd21

I can appreciate that for the "experienced Kali" forum members, that my request was old dried soap suds, and that I should have spent 3 or 4 years researching all of their posts to find what I wanted.

I did the Google search to find the situation that I ran into, and did not find what I needed....
and then that rebuff from a moderator? well, I am done with him and the whole forum.

as usual, the replies in this thread have provided me with most likely all of the information I will need to go forward and start my new "field of study"......

never wanted to hack someone else, I just needed to find out "what the hell" is going on with my ISP provided WiFi signal.... and my laptop's internal WiFi adapter is a genuine piece of crap... my cellphone will walk circles around it. and in fact, it was the cellphone that proved to me that the DSL modem's WiFi transmitter is dropping out...

Monday, I will give the daylight tech crew a call... I have found in the past, that the weekend crew is a bunch of Script Readers who have not a clue how to diagnose anything.

Thanks to all, if there are more good thoughts, please post them.

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Re: How to Spoil the Stew, and guarantee a new user will never come back

Post by Portreve » Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:36 pm

AZgl1500 wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:55 pm
Monday, I will give the daylight tech crew a call... I have found in the past, that the weekend crew is a bunch of Script Readers who have not a clue how to diagnose anything.

Thanks to all, if there are more good thoughts, please post them.
If you're up for a bit of a challenge (not trying to make this sounds like brain surgery, because it isn't) you might want to use DD-WRT's database to find a good router with decent specs which is compatible, them flash it to DD-WRT's GNU+Linux-based firmware, and have a real kick-ass router.
Peoples of the universe, please attend carefully: the message which follows is vital to the future of you all.

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