Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

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JosephM
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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by JosephM » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:11 am

KBD47 wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:11 pm
Interesting that in the future Kubuntu may be the lightest Ubuntu version. I think Lubuntu made a big mistake leaving that title on the table. I can't count how many times over the years people pointed new users toward Lubuntu when they needed a lighter OS. If it is as heavy or heavier than Xfce or MATE I'm picking the more mature DE every time. Even Cinnamon won't be much heavier with effects turned off.
KDE lightweight now:
https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/9 ... at_kde_is/
I see these comments about Cinnamons effects quite often. Not sure where the belief comes from that Cinnamon is somehow "lighter" once these are off. Not even sure exactly what that means.

I know some people use systems with very limited capabilities that need one of the these lighter DE"s. Outside of that I don't see the big deal. Apps like web browsers use so much memory that the difference in the DE's doesn't seem so significant. No matter what DE I use, running my normal apps I'm using a couple GB's of memory.
When I give opinions, they are my own. Not necessarily those of any other Linux Mint developer or the Linux Mint project as a whole.

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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by Pjotr » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:15 am

JosephM wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:11 am
KBD47 wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:11 pm
Interesting that in the future Kubuntu may be the lightest Ubuntu version. I think Lubuntu made a big mistake leaving that title on the table. I can't count how many times over the years people pointed new users toward Lubuntu when they needed a lighter OS. If it is as heavy or heavier than Xfce or MATE I'm picking the more mature DE every time. Even Cinnamon won't be much heavier with effects turned off.
KDE lightweight now:
https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/9 ... at_kde_is/
I see these comments about Cinnamons effects quite often. Not sure where the belief comes from that Cinnamon is somehow "lighter" once these are off. Not even sure exactly what that means.

I know some people use systems with very limited capabilities that need one of the these lighter DE"s. Outside of that I don't see the big deal. Apps like web browsers use so much memory that the difference in the DE's doesn't seem so significant. No matter what DE I use, running my normal apps I'm using a couple GB's of memory.
The load on the graphics subsystem/hardware is, to some extent, different from the general RAM load...

Switching off the visual effects in all DE's, up to and including Xfce, causes an immediate noticeable performance improvement for the graphics of weak hardware. Video's aren't choppy anymore, etc.
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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by JosephM » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:26 am

The load on the graphics subsystem/hardware is, to some extent, different from the general RAM load...
Fair enough. But is there some proof somewhere that this actually makes a difference? Knowing how this actually works I don't see that it would make much difference at all.
When I give opinions, they are my own. Not necessarily those of any other Linux Mint developer or the Linux Mint project as a whole.

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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by Pjotr » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:33 am

JosephM wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:26 am
The load on the graphics subsystem/hardware is, to some extent, different from the general RAM load...
Fair enough. But is there some proof somewhere that this actually makes a difference? Knowing how this actually works I don't see that it would make much difference at all.
In my personal experience, it can make a lot of difference for weak hardware.

I have some weak elderly laptops, which can only play video's smoothly when the visual effects are turned off. In all DE's, up to and including Xfce (even Xfce has some)....
Tip: 10 things to do after installing Linux Mint 19.2 Tina
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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by KBD47 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:08 am

There are some tweaks here to make Mint lighter/faster on low spec hardware:
https://easylinuxtipsproject.blogspot.c ... -mint.html

If you have a single core, or weak dual core cpu, and limited to 2 gb ram, any improvement helps, even if dropping ram use by 100-150 mb. Turning off effects is noticeable. In Ubuntu I turned off animations in 18.04 and noticed my core temp dropped a few degrees and it used less ram. Often more noticeable in the 'larger' DE's like Cinnamon, Ubuntu, Gnome.

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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by az2008 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:14 pm

az2008 wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:21 am
151tom wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:11 pm
I've found Linux Peppermint to be an excellent lightweight on my 2010 computers.
I just booted Peppermint (334,528 bytes. Disabling the background image didn't change that. Probably would if configured that way and rebooted.). I like the look/feel. They have a good philosophy.

It uses LXDE.
FYI: The Peppermint people clarified that it does not use LXDE, just a couple LX components (lxrunner, for example). They said it's more X based. (Peppermint didn't feel like X at all.). I booted Peppermint again. It used 314,108 memory. I think the first time (quoted above) I had a hard time finding the terminal. I might have opened menus that cached into memory.

I booted Xubuntu 19.4. It used 397,528. More than Mint Mate (which was 391,800 with the background image). That surprised me. (I wonder if Mint Xfce is similar.).

I booted Puppy. It was 150,468. But, it loads with a setup panel open. When I closed that the mem went down to 139,692.

I read something about AntiX Linux. It doesn't use systemd. That booted *blazingly* fast. I don't remember seeing an OS boot that fast in decades (if ever!). It's very snappy when loaded. 159,252 memory used. It feels a little rough/disorganized/technical like Puppy. It's worth looking at just to see how something without systemd works. (wow!).

====

I'm tempted to go with Puppy or AntiX. But, they're both very (obviously) X. I've not liked X for some reason. But, I'm sure I could configure it more to my liking. (Like, disable the single-click behavior of launching/opening things). If LXDE's future is uncertain, maybe I should try to get more comfortable with X -- since that's about the only lightweight environment available.).

I'll spend more time with them all. I'm not in a hurry. LXQt is working ok for me. It just seems like a time to change (since I have to change from my beloved LXDE anyway). BTW: The only reason I posted to this thread is that I googled to see if Mint was doing anything with LXQt. I wanted to compare. I found this thread that way. I thought I could add to the topic about it being (subjectively) "lightweight."

I like Mint Mate (thanks @smurphos for clarifying Mate doesn't have GTK-2 issues.).

Neon KDE/Plasma is nice, but would take more getting used to (it's a little different than I'm accustomed to). It's not that big compared to Mate and Lubuntu LXQt. But, you get a lot more polish, features. More than I need. But, maybe I should go that direction for awhile, expose myself to it.

Peppermint definitely reminds me of Lubuntu in the not-so-distant LXDE days. That seems like the natural choice. (But, maybe I should step out of my comfort zone for awhile.).

Summary:

Code: Select all

Cinnamon 19.1            = 515,888
Zorin 12 (core)          = 487,088
Xubuntu 19.4             = 397,528
Mate 19.1                = 391,800 (disable background img immediately reduced to 367,068.
                                    disable animated window/glitter stuff: 348,588)
Neon KDE/Plasma 20190418 = 388,356
Lubuntu 19.4 (LXQt)      = 342,604
Peppermint 9.2           = 314,108
Bodhi 5.0.0              = 201,652
AntiX 17.4.1             = 159,252
Puppy 8.0                = 150,468 (but, after closing the automatically opened setup dialog: 139,692)
I didn't mention Bodhi. It seems nice, elegant. But, the desktop wasn't intuitive to me. It reminded me of Enlightenment many years ago. That was impenetrable for me.

EDIT: I also tried Zorin Core too. It reminds me of MS Windows desktop (maybe Win 7). I think it would be very comfortable/familiar to someone coming from Windows (like Mint Cinnamon would be too).
Last edited by az2008 on Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:49 pm, edited 4 times in total.

151tom
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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by 151tom » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:00 pm

az2008 wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:14 pm
I read something about AntiX Linux. It doesn't use systemd. That booted *blazingly* fast. I don't remember seeing an OS boot that fast in decades (if ever!). It's very snappy when loaded. 159,252 memory used. It feels a little rough/disorganized/technical like Puppy. It's worth looking at just to see how something without systemd works. (wow!).

====

I'm tempted to go with Puppy or AntiX. But, they're both very (obviously) X. I've not liked X for some reason. But, I'm sure I could configure it more to my liking. (Like, disable the single-click behavior of launching/opening things). If LXDE's future is uncertain, maybe I should try to get more comfortable with X -- since that's about the only lightweight environment available.).

I'll spend more time with them all. I'm not in a hurry. LXQt is working ok for me. It just seems like a time to change (since I have to change from my beloved LXDE anyway). BTW: The only reason I posted to this thread is that I googled to see if Mint was doing anything with LXQt. I wanted to compare. I found this thread that way. I thought I could add to the topic about it being (subjectively) "lightweight."
I prefer Antix over Puppy although no complaints with BionicPup64.

I've used Antix for awhile and it runs well on my old 2010 computers without problems or complaints.
Yep it may seem a little rough to some but it can do everything that the mainstream flagship Linux Distros do.
The advantage I find with Antix is that it runs on most old computers that the mainstream Linux Distros wouldn't.
az2008 wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:14 pm
Peppermint definitely reminds me of Lubuntu in the not-so-distant LXDE days. That seems like the natural choice. (But, maybe I should step out of my comfort zone for awhile.).
Linux Peppermint is as good as Linux Mint imo.
Last edited by 151tom on Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by thx-1138 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:14 pm

...you might wanna try something like this.
The script itself is extremely simple to understand and customize according to your needs:
Openbox, very few Xfce parts, & some elementary programs.

Very low-weight, and obviously still ubuntu-based,
hence relatively easier to adjust down the road in a certain sense.
Maybe also have a look at Bunsenlabs (which is Debian-based though).

If you want a certain level of convenience,
in the 'desktop' sense of the term (as you nicely put it, not 'rough/disorganized/technical'),
well, then i'd say that you do need some parts at least of either LX* or Xfce...
Else, you're not really going for lightweight, but...minimal :wink:

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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by KBD47 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:57 pm

AntiX is nice, even though it might take a bit more effort on the user's part.
KDE ram use is downright impressive considering it is a full-fledged desktop out of the box

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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by 151tom » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:16 pm

KBD47 wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:57 pm
AntiX is nice, even though it might take a bit more effort on the user's part.
Yes it is and the slight learning curve isn't hard to overcome as there is an excellent how to guide.

https://download.tuxfamily.org/antix/do ... index.html

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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by az2008 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:03 pm

JosephM wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:11 am
I see these comments about Cinnamon's effects quite often. Not sure where the belief comes from that Cinnamon is somehow "lighter" once these are off. Not even sure exactly what that means.
A few minutes ago I booted Mint MATE again. I ran the "free" command as earlier in this thread. I realized my first mention of Mate's memory usage (378,328 after disabling the background image) was done with that desktop->wallpaper (whatever it's called) dialogue still open. When I closed it (this time), the memory went to 367,068.

The first time, I didn't look too much for effects. (Mate doesn't feel that animated. Maybe I didn't think there was anything to do. I was in a hurry to just get initial impressions. The "free" measurements were just trivia.). So... this time I looked further. I found a setting/config area where some eye candy can be dialed down. (There's a big warning about how you might enable mutually exclusive items and hose your computer. It seems like someone would know what those combinations are and block them. But, I don't know.). I unchecked a few things that were obvious. When I closed that dialoge: 348,588.

So, that's an example of what you questioned.

I think it's interesting that MATE (with a plain-color background & effects disabled) is as large as Lubuntu LXQt. I would have thought MATE would be considerably larger.

I don't know if these numbers can be compared too much. From what I saw, some distros/desktops didn't free memory when you disabled a background, closed a dialogue, disabled effects. It seemed like those held the memory until needed, and freed it then (or a periodic sweep). MATE seems to be more immediate.

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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by KBD47 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:08 pm

I'm not sure what the 'scientific method' should be, but I would mostly check ram use after a fresh boot and everything loaded at the desktop. I would run Screenfetch or Neofetch to pull up ram use.

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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by az2008 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:25 pm

KBD47 wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:08 pm
I'm not sure what the 'scientific method' should be, but I would mostly check ram use after a fresh boot and everything loaded at the desktop. I would run Screenfetch or Neofetch to pull up ram use.
It would definitely make more sense to compare things after a reboot. You can't do that with the live-cd environment I was using. For example, Cinnamon didn't seem to release memory after eliminating the background, or turning off effects. But, I'm sure it would be reflected in a newly booted state. (You just can't do that with the install media's test-drive environment.).

Someone (you?) said they noticed Mate causing the cooling fan to be more active than KDE/Plasma(?). I wonder if MATE's more spontaenous memory freeing might be the cause of that. If it's twitchy in allocating and freeing memory. (It's nice to see immediate changes the way I did. But, if that responsiveness is happening all the time... maybe it would make a temperature difference.).

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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by Hoser Rob » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:22 am

I've had LXQt installed in the past. It wasn't really finished at the time but I definitely found it less light and zippy than regular LXDE. Not interested.

However, my netbook is running 17.3 and I'm going to be installing the unofficial LXDE 18.3 spin from Gernany in the next couple of days.

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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by Pjotr » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:53 am

Hoser Rob wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:22 am
However, my netbook is running 17.3 and I'm going to be installing the unofficial LXDE 18.3 spin from Gernany in the next couple of days.
At linuxmintusers.de the Germans also have made available an unofficial LXDE spin of Linux Mint 19.1:
https://www.linuxmintusers.de/index.php?topic=52646.0

I haven't tried that version of the spin yet, but when I tested an earlier version some years ago, it proved to be of the high quality one expects from German products. As they say: "deutsche Wertarbeit". They have a national reputation for "Gründlichkeit" (thoroughness), which they definitely lived up to when creating the spin.

Note that its default language and default keyboard layout are probably German (they were when I tested an earlier version), so you'll most likely need to change that.
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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by Hoser Rob » Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:08 am

Pjotr wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:53 am
Hoser Rob wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:22 am
However, my netbook is running 17.3 and I'm going to be installing the unofficial LXDE 18.3 spin from Gernany in the next couple of days.
At linuxmintusers.de the Germans also have made available an unofficial LXDE spin of Linux Mint 19.1:
https://www.linuxmintusers.de/index.php?topic=52646.0

I haven't tried that version of the spin yet, but when I tested an earlier version some years ago, it proved to be of the high quality one expects from German products. As they say: "deutsche Wertarbeit". They have a national reputation for "Gründlichkeit" (thoroughness), which they definitely lived up to when creating the spin.

Note that its default language and default keyboard layout are probably German (they were when I tested an earlier version), so you'll most likely need to change that.
Thanks for the suggestion but I think 18.3 would be better for this old POS netbok for now.

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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by az2008 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:24 pm

FYI: After discussion the Lubuntu-users mailing list, I regathered the memory usage after installing the distros. I think the Live-CD environment I was originally measuring wasn't representative. They all went down when installed.

I posted the info (for 13 distros) here:

https://jmp.sh/b/J8EVuhpUI69oJMka2LfS

EDIT: I added two more distros (Ubuntu 19.4 & Mint Xfce 19.1).

There is a PDF and LibreOffice Calc file there (if someone wanted to expand upon it, reformat it, etc.). I hope that link is ok. I might update the files and thought that location would be better than attaching it here.

I'm still liking Peppermint. But, Mint Mate is still under consideration. (I exposed myself to MX 18. I like that one a lot too. I'm going to play with it more.).
Last edited by az2008 on Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by Hoser Rob » Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:57 am

I think if anyone really want an LXQt based distro Lubuntu would be the way to go for most. None of the others have the level of support. The first thing you should look at with any distro is their support forum. If it doesn't look like questions from users who are at your level are being answered, try another distro.

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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by az2008 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:19 pm

Hoser Rob wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:57 am
I think if anyone really want an LXQt based distro Lubuntu would be the way to go for most.
I agree. It's not a bad distro. It's new and will improve. It was a big enough change from the legacy LXDE desktop that I felt I should expose myself (again) to what's out there. If I have to experience change, I might as well choose. I'm finding Peppermint 9 is very close (look/feel/size) to LXDE. I think I'm going to do that. But, Mint MATE 19.1 is still on my radar. I also like MX 18 (never heard of it. It's a systemd-free distro. The desktop seems like a nice balance between simplicity and polish -- like Lubuntu, Peppermint, Mint MATE.). I just booted Mint Xfce. I'll look at that more too.

I added Mint Xfce 19.1 (and Ubuntu 19.4, which uses Gnome and is large) to my comparison of memory use. The spreadsheet and PDF were updated. I made this screenshot for easier viewing:

Image
More info at: https://jmp.sh/b/J8EVuhpUI69oJMka2LfS

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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by BG405 » Wed May 01, 2019 1:09 pm

az2008 wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:19 pm
...
This is very useful, thanks for taking the time to do this. :)
Dell Inspiron 1525 - LM17.3 CE 64-------------------Lenovo T440 4GB - Manjaro KDE, LM17.3 KDE 32
Toshiba NB250 - Manjaro KDE------------------------K7S5A AMD 1.2GHz - LM17.3 Xfce 32 & WinXP-Pro
Acer Aspire E11 ES1-111M - LM18.2 KDE 64 ----Dell PII 350 64MB - Puppy 4.3 & Win98-SE

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