Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

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az2008
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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by az2008 »

FYI: I compared distros for memory-usage again:

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[click to enlarge]

For more info, see spreadsheet or PDF at https://jmp.sh/kNTBnT4

This came about because I got a new laptop and wanted to try installing a few distros to see how compatible it is with Linux. That seemed like a good time to collect details again. Last time I only did it in a virtual machine. (This time I did both a real & virtual machine).

It's fun to "speed date" distros this way, get a initial impression of them. I've been running MX Linux since the last time I did that (I love MX. No reason to move to something else. I just want to expand my horizons. I'm running Peppermint 10 right now. In a few months I'll spin the bottle again.). I'd like to give Linux Lite a try. It looks attractive to me. I've had some issues with its ISOs not being bootable. But, in the Lubuntu (small-distro category) it looks really good to me.

There are also other distros running LXQt now, too. Sparky Linux, for example.
Last edited by az2008 on Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hoser Rob
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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by Hoser Rob »

Just looked at that RAM usage chart and couldn't help noticing that KDE Neon doesn't use much more RAM than the LxQt versions (I use Mint 18.3 KDE). ANd if you disable all the Plasma 5 startup services that I don't use the RAM usage after boot is less than with LxQt. This despite KDE being the most powerful Linux DE I've used and LxQt/LXDE being a relic of the 90s.

This is a sad reflection of the Linux dev cycle. Too much time remaking what didn't need to be remade and not nearly enough time on real software maintenance. LXDE was WAY lighter than LxQt despite otherwise being pretty much identical. And just how damn long did the migration to Lubuntu make? Just ridiculous. I've used LXDE in the past (and liked it more than Xfce) and tried LxQt some time ago but never again.

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az2008
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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by az2008 »

@Hoser Rob, I agree with all you said. I like KDE a lot and have been tempted to "hop" to it for awhile. For some reason, KDE's desktop has always reminded me of OS/2 (which I was a big advocate of.). I always thought KDE meant "large." But, Neon looks very reasonable, as you said. (I just got a new laptop that's very fast, Ryzen 3 3200u. I don't know why I'm ruminating on weight of distros now.).

Like you, I'm also not attracted to LXQt for some reason I can't put my finger on. It feels rough in some way, unpolished. Maybe it's just the theme used. Maybe it will be better as it continues to be developed. I saw a thread somewhere in which someone said LXQt's competing with KDE (which is also based upon the Qt framework? Isn't much larger, is more mature).

You may have noticed I didn't try to turn off eye-candy services (and collect memory usage depicting that "minimal" state). I tried to do that last time, but it was random what I'd find to turn off and conserve memory. If something didn't immediately stand out as an opportunity to conserve resources, I didn't search too deeply. So, that wasn't a fair comparison. I didn't try to d it this time. (But, with as much eye candy as Neon KDE has, I bet it would be quite a bit lower mem with those things turned off. Of all the distros, I suspect it has the greatest opportunity to be minimized that way.).

I wish it could become a standard among distros to publish an official "tweaks" guide for minimizing a distro's resource usage. I.e., list all the things that could be disabled, uninstalled, etc. It could explain what you lose by doing each item (the user could decide how lean they want to be, the tradeoffs). I think if all distros had this, it would make a lot of sense. Linux is what people turn to to give older hardware new life. It seems like a guide to creating the "minimal" version of a distro would serve a real purpose. (The reason this came to mind is: if there were official guides like that, then it would be possible to benchmark distros that way. Unlike my hit-and-miss attempt last time. Just do what the distro says to do.).

One point about LXDE being way lighter than LXQt: the Lubuntu guys say that its all about GTK3 support. Apparently Xfce is taking a size hit right now as it's finally bowing to the monster. The Lubuntu guys' point is: LXDE would have taken a hit too. We just never saw it. The LXDE developer felt the Qt libraries were a better way to mitigate that impact. So, we saw what looked like a step backwards with Lubuntu LXQt. But, as other desktops implement GTK3, Lubuntu LXQt's weight doesn't look as bad. (Something like that.).

But, if KDE is based upon Qt, it seems like it would have been easier to create a lightweight version of it (KDE-L). It seems like recreating LXDE with Qt would have been a lot of work for no apparent reason. I think they wanted LXQt to be an exact duplicate of LXDE. I thought it was supposed to be indistinguishable. But, to me it doesn't look like LXDE at all. Maybe it's just the theme. I don't know.

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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by ColdBootII »

az2008 wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:35 pm
But, if KDE is based upon Qt, it seems like it would have been easier to create a lightweight version of it (KDE-L). It seems like recreating LXDE with Qt would have been a lot of work for no apparent reason. I think they wanted LXQt to be an exact duplicate of LXDE. I thought it was supposed to be indistinguishable. But, to me it doesn't look like LXDE at all. Maybe it's just the theme. I don't know.
I beg to differ, it is lightweight. Perhaps you're using a different tool each time to display memory usage of various distros? I tend to trust free -h and it says it is as light as Moksha session is in Mint 19. :mrgreen:

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Flemur
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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by Flemur »

Hoser Rob wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:10 am
Pjotr wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:54 am
Main disadvantage: I've heard that LXQt isn't as lightweight as LXDE....
Actually from my brief encounter with LXQt I'd have to agree.
Also me too.

I like using the lxpanel with fluxbox rather than the FB toolbar.
Please edit your original post title to include [SOLVED] if/when it is solved!
Your data and OS are backed up....right?

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az2008
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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by az2008 »

ColdBootII wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:26 pm
I beg to differ, it is lightweight. Perhaps you're using a different tool each time to display memory usage of various distros? I tend to trust free -h and it says it is as light as Moksha session is in Mint 19. :mrgreen:
I used "free" also. The full PDF version explains the steps I follow. Anyone's free to recreate it, compare other distros, other hardware environments, modify the steps to compare differently. (FWIW: the steps were provided me by the Lubuntu people.).

Trying (installing) different desktops within distros might be interesting. I just compare the distros with the desktop they come with. That seems simpler, and shows what it shows. I can't argue with it. I don't know how desktops installed into unrelated distros would compare.

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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by Flemur »

Code: Select all

$ env | grep DESK
DESKTOP_SESSION=LXDE
XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=LXDE
$ free -h
              total        used        free      shared  buff/cache   available
Mem:           3.9G        160M        3.3G        1.4M        397M        3.5G
Swap:           99M          0B         99M
$
^^ 18.04 version; below is 16.04 version:

Code: Select all

$ free -h
              total        used        free      shared  buff/cache   available
Mem:           3.9G        135M        3.5G        9.2M        241M        3.5G
Swap:            0B          0B          0B
$ env | grep DESK
DESKTOP_SESSION=LXDE
XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=LXDE
I can reduce those 'used' numbers by about 20-30M by not using the nvidia drivers.
Please edit your original post title to include [SOLVED] if/when it is solved!
Your data and OS are backed up....right?

ColdBootII
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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by ColdBootII »

az2008 wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:45 pm

I used "free" also. The full PDF version explains the steps I follow. Anyone's free to recreate it, compare other distros, other hardware environments, modify the steps to compare differently. (FWIW: the steps were provided me by the Lubuntu people.).
Perhaps it comes down to firmware differences... When I try Kubuntu 19.10 (can't try Neon now) it's also showing lower figures.

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az2008
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Re: Lubuntu: Welcome to LXQt

Post by az2008 »

ColdBootII wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:59 pm
Perhaps it comes down to firmware differences... When I try Kubuntu 19.10 (can't try Neon now) it's also showing lower figures.
There's definitely memory differences based upon hardware (the drivers). I'm sure my Acer numbers would be different than someone else's Lenovo numbers. But, in a VirtualBox (created the same way I created mine), I'd think it should be the same (if you install the same Neon 20200116 ISO, etc.).

One perplexing exception: Bodhi 5.0.0 (in my comparison). It has almost the same memory usage on real hardware (as it does in a Virtual Box). All the other distros show a significant difference, which makes sense when you consider real hardware with real drivers. But, then... how does Bodhi do that?

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