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Microsoft has made several gestures of goodwill towards the Linux community recently. They would like for us all to forget their past of loathing Linux, and fighting Linux tooth and nail pretty much to keep it off PCs.

What would YOU like to see Microsoft do, in order for them to prove that their new found love for Linux isn't just a sham to make money? What compatibility do they need to create to bridge the gaps to the Linux world (instead of ruthlessly creating gaps)?

Here's what I'd need to see, at least, to believe Microsoft:

All currently-supported versions of Windows (starting with Windows 10, and then working backwards to Windows 7) must fully support BTRFS (as a “first-class” filesystem, which just works “plug-and-play”), because BTRFS fully supports NTFS-style ACL’s, after all. That is to say, when I plug in a USB stick, or external hard drive, formatted with BTRFS, Windows should open it (with full read-write access, creating no filesystem errors, allowing clean "Safe Removal"), and use ACL's in the same way as if I plugged the same thing in, NTFS-formatted.

Who cares what Microsoft does? We have something better.

I don't care how 'Microsoft' feels about 'Linux'. But on a practical level, I would welcome anything that makes it easier and more reliable (in the case of dual boot) to install Linux-based OSes on computers that were built with Windows in mind. In other words, don't try to lock in my hardware, and don't try to monkey up people's installations if they have chosen to dual boot.

Pjotr wrote: ⤴Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:48 am Who cares what Microsoft does? We have something better.

Microsoft can and regularly does make our lives hell (though various breakages in compatibility), so I think we need to care at least that much.

For example, Microsoft invented UEFI, then aggressively pushed all motherboard manufacturers to support it, then require it.

UEFI has been a major thorn in the side of the linux community for a long, long time. How long did it take for all the major distros to have good UEFI support? Like a decade?

Another big example: Microsoft also invented ACPI (when APM support in Linux had a far better chance of getting all sorted out cleanly), which is something that Linux distros have struggled like forever to support well (and this is still ongoing, and is far from sorted out for all the mobo types, and other related hardware, out there).

Esbeeb wrote: ⤴Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:38 amWhat would YOU like to see Microsoft do, in order for them to prove that their new found love for Linux isn't just a sham to make money?

What nonsense is this? Microsoft is a publicly traded company, of course their goal is to make money. It has to be.

Paranoid tinfoil hatted rubbish, nas ignorant as always. MS has been one of the biggest corporate contirbutors to the kernel project for YEARS. Why does Mint atttract so many conspicacy nuts???

An interesting question. Microsoft undoubtedly only loves Linux for clouds and servers, not as a competing OS for consumer devices. So whether their love for Linux is genuine or not, it's a bit moot for us here right? I think they will be doing little of immediate use for us here.

Hoser Rob wrote: ⤴Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:50 am Paranoid tinfoil hatted rubbish, nas ignorant as always. MS has been one of the biggest corporate contirbutors to the kernel project for YEARS. Why does Mint atttract so many conspicacy nuts???

This is demonstrable false and untrue. Don't be boorish; check your facts and be civil.

The (roughly) yearly kernel development reports from the Linux Foundation have a chapter on who is sponsoring the work. While Microsoft made about 1% of the changes around 2012 [2], both before and after [1,3,4,5,6] they have not made it into the top 30 or warranted any mention. Microsoft's work on the Linux kernel around 2012 was almost exclusively to add kernel drivers for its Hyper-V virtualization hypervisor [7].

The top contributors are pretty much who you'd expect. Companies like Intel, Red Hat, IBM, Samsung, SUSE, Google, AMD... Not Microsoft, except for their Hyper-V driver work around 2012.

Sources:

• "Linux Kernel Development — How Fast it is Going, Who is Doing It, What They are Doing, and Who is Sponsoring It"
  • [1] December 2010
  • [2] March 2012
  • [3] September 2013
  • [4] February 2015
  • [5] August 2016
  • [6] October 2017
• [7] Microsoft no longer a top Linux kernel contributor

xenopeek wrote: ⤴Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:46 pm Sources:
Microsoft no longer a top Linux kernel contributor

Thanks for the highly civilized, constructive post, free of any Ad Hominem attacks.

I think M$ needs to prove its love with a sacrifice.

Get rid of UEFI.

Prove your love M$. We all know your creepy.

Esbeeb wrote: ⤴Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:38 am Here's what I'd need to see, at least, to believe Microsoft:

.
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... ian-inXile - Microsoft Acquires Obsidian & inXile Entertainment
Written by Michael Larabel in Linux Gaming on 10 November 2018

M$ does not really love Linux. M$ only loves $$$$ and herself.

M$ saves $$$$ by using free Linux for her Azure and One Drive Cloud Data-servers, as do Google, Intel, IBM, Amazon, Facebook, Twitter, etc.

M$ has been doing everything in her power to prevent free Linux from displacing non-free Windows in the desktop OS market. Some OEMs have even colluded with M$ in her anti-Linux efforts, eg the proprietary Intel RST RAID-disk driver and Intel Optane RAM/memory; and from 2020 onward, all new Intel processors will only support UEFI, ie no more Legacy BIOS.

in order to use that WSL - - you Still Have to Buy a Copy of their Windows System.

Esbeeb wrote: ⤴Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:03 am For example, Microsoft invented UEFI, then aggressively pushed all motherboard manufacturers to support it, then require it.

UEFI has been a major thorn in the side of the linux community for a long, long time. How long did it take for all the major distros to have good UEFI support? Like a decade?

That UEFI & that Secure_Boot are an example of why "MS loves Linux" - Not.
- - that's their way to Protect their Windows Product.


allowing it to be easier to Install an Alternative System, to their main product,
- would be one way to show Proof of an Better Community Attitude.

Let's stay on topic; the question was what would make you believe Microsoft loves Linux.

What would YOU like to see Microsoft do = Where the sun don't shine

Make direct X open source, and allow it to be used by every Linux Distro out there, as well as release the complete source code for Windows 3.1/3.11/95/98. Then make MS Office available for Linux.

Well if M$ behaved logically for once it would drop the hindrances to alternative OS's once it reaches the cloud platform nirvana it's currently striving for, after all since it wont be a desktop OS anymore why would it want to hinder what "used" to be it's rivals? Of course it wont though because it throw away long term logic thinking years ago.... or it's completely logical and there's another agenda we can only speculate on.

The proof I'd like to see is that they fix their updates so that they do NOT destroy Linux partitions .. and if it does happen, THEY pay for (or even provide*) forensic data recovery services, which as anyone who has looked into will know, is rather expensive.

Just my 2p worth.

*With appropriate privacy clause with respect to personal data.

BG405 wrote: ⤴Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:23 pm The proof I'd like to see is that they fix their updates so that they do NOT destroy Linux partitions .. and if it does happen, ...........................

Does this actually happen?
I assume it does....................how can it happen?

My question is from a position of comparative ignorance.

Jim.

Wompoo wrote: ⤴Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:07 am

BG405 wrote: ⤴Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:23 pm The proof I'd like to see is that they fix their updates so that they do NOT destroy Linux partitions [ ... ]

Does this actually happen?

No. But what can and did happen for the "Fall Creators Update" of autumn 2017 is the update inserting some form of restore partition in between Windows and Linux partitions, causing the first stage of GRUB on an MBR systems to potentially fail to locate its second stage and, thus, drop the user to a rescue prompt. Or reset the boot- order on a UEFI system to boot directly into Windows, re-enable secure and/or fast boot --- and/or all of the above.

It's basically expected that any major Windows update will bugger your bootloader but that's never been different either. That is, although you may need to be fairly technically competent to be able to unbugger, actual partitions being destroyed has never happened other than as a result of user error.

Getting tired of ignorant paranoid MS rants, and I haven't had any WIndows installed for years.

There are a number of large corporations who work on the Kernel Project, and Microsoft has been one of the top contributors for years.

The REAL enemy of Linux is cloud computing but none of these ranters ever seem to be able to understand that.