Personal thoughts

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pascal111
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Re: Personal thoughts

Post by pascal111 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:12 pm

bodhin wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:25 pm
how can you be in 2 places at once when you're not anywhere at all?
How can you be not in anywhere at all? Is it possible?!
If you're serious, any event need time and place, so you've not formed your question well, otherwise you're not serious and you ask something like funny puzzles like among young students in school, in this last point really I don't know this childish puzzle, it's new to me.
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Re: Personal thoughts

Post by pascal111 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:23 pm

One of strange thing is that I tried before googling for QBasic books, I found 0 available book in WEB, just pay to have it. The strange thing is that QBasic can be considered as a retro programming language, you can expect that any retro computing stuff is so available 100% on the WEB because most of people will care in modern computing stuff, nobody cares about QBasic or DOS stuff, nobody cares about Commodore 64, the strange result that you can find these stuff but with money, again, there's no problem for companies to make money from retro computing stuff, but the strange thing is although they're retro, you never find a result for available free stuff for example something like QBasic.

Windows 10 is modern OS, new programming languages, new games, new computing stuff, but why someone back to retro computing stuff. If the modernism lacked beauty aspects of retro, in this time, we would know that it dosen't satisfy needs and desires of users, and new generations of users who have no idea about retro, they can't realize the deference, because they're the sons of the new computing stuff. One of important things happened to me in my life that I tasted the home computers, I tasted too the first days of DOS and Windows, I've another computer background.

How Linux is dealing with retro computing?
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Re: Personal thoughts

Post by pascal111 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:52 pm

One of strange visions I've seen in my sleeping said that Commodore programming is appropriate with my nature, another vision advised me to learn QBasic then Turbo Pascal, another one said that programming in Turbo Pascal can prepare you to program in Turbo C language!!

Now, we've questions, doesn't the spirit showing me these visions realize that there are so modern stuff in programming world?!

Anyway, they're just visions. I've read what someone wrote in a forum about sdlBasic for example, I've no idea what's sdlBasic, but he said that it's a retro computing and it shall die like any other retro stuff. Should retro computing stuff die?!
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Re: Personal thoughts

Post by bodhin » Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:30 pm

firesign theater i believe

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Re: Personal thoughts

Post by pascal111 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:30 pm

bodhin wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:30 pm
firesign theater i believe
I thought it an expression but it's a name of comedy group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Firesign_Theatre it's kind of surreal humour https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surreal_humour

I would like to hear of 'em but I've bad connection now, is it related to your previous question?!
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Re: Personal thoughts

Post by pascal111 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:36 pm

We didn't answer the question of if the retro computing should die or what's the benefit behind retro computing?

In Linux, I found that we can run number of emulators for retro computing. like DOS or C64. Another point is in retro computing we've blinking cursor with blank screen, we need to pass commands to computer to do something, "the commands" style of retro computing, but retro computing gave useful vision about computer, those have worked with DOS for example and tried to program with its programming languages knows that the original space of computer is just empty textual screen and graphical screens are another modes with different segments in the RAM, there's no real user interface in the computer.

I assumed to via the dialectic laws that there's an unity and conflict between coding style and user interfaces, across the time the user interface is evolved and pushed coding to evolved too like dialectic laws saying about the necessary of the evolution, for that we saw in last days the "visual" programming style, you don't code everything from zero, there's too graphical user interface and controls that are prepared and ready to use in your programming without coding from zero and maybe all what are you doing is just modifying of that controls and the user interface.
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Re: Personal thoughts

Post by pascal111 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:27 pm

One of visions I've seen in my sleeping said that the evolution for example in a living creature includes on creature itself the previous degrees of evolution, so the creature itself isn't only the final evolved level, it includes on itself the previous old levels, and in human civilization they don't care in that and for that for example computers, if people for any reason missed retro computing stuff, they'll in difficult way satisfy their desire to find retro stuff because you'll found generally the modern new computing stuff.

Although it's a vision but it has some sense, can we make for example like that living creature in the vision the degrees or levels of evolution to be included in our new OS's.
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Re: Personal thoughts

Post by pascal111 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:56 pm

Part of what I'll say in next lines is just personal feelings, I feel in Windows as if the user interface itself is the Windows itself, from the name too of the OS "Windows", so Windows can't be without its user interface system, this's not strong point, but really Windows user interface is so attractive, so flexible, I can come so familiar with any new Windows software, I feel it's so simple to me to learn it after reading help and follow tutorial, for example Adobe Photo Shop, it dosen't matter how much the software is complex, Windows user interface is so flexible but I think you can't separate it away than the OS itself.

On other hand, Linux, Linux dosen't lean on its user interface, in fact, it seemed to me that Linux hasn't particular user interface, it can work without user interface at all, it's not an essential part of Linux itself, Linux can work with many kind of user interfaces, it seemed as if we decided at any time to program new user interface for Linux other than any current user interface we'll have no problem, Linux isn't the user interface and this's a so strong point in Linux.
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Re: Personal thoughts

Post by pascal111 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:29 pm

Now, let's talk about another small point between Windows and Linux, "the programming languages", I've no much in Linux to distinguish this point more well but let's use what I've. At home computers period, learning computers means or is a synonym of learning programming in these computers, the most popular language is "BASIC" with many dialects depending on each home computer kind and its company, with the ability too in many cases if not all cases to learn assembly to work alone or with BASIC on that computers which will make strong programming at that time.

We've after that the DOS period, maybe my motion through the degrees of this evolution isn't very smooth, maybe I jump over some levels, for BASIC in DOS you can see things like BASICA, GW-BASIC, Turbo BASIC ... etc and another languages stronger than BASIC like Pascal and C, but I'll focus on BASIC, with DOS and PC's it seems that we've some standard dialect for BASIC not like previous period of home computers, after that QBasic came, the most wonderful BASIC, it's structured BASIC, not like traditional styles of known BASIC even on DOS, this evolution and change in BASIC was good one, maybe a revolution or change in something will make it less in quality than previous form but QBasic wasn't like that.

One of special points in BASIC is that I consider it as a real high level language, we don't come close to the machine much in our programming in BASIC although you can use assembly with BASIC, but BASIC isn't so strong like Pascal and C, so not all programming purpose can be done with it.
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Re: Personal thoughts

Post by pascal111 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:56 pm

I searched too for another reason to choose BASIC to focus on, because I'll choose Gambas and VB6 to talk about, maybe because too for the concept or attribute of "high level language", this's all related to the user interface and the desktop environment revolution and desktops is related to the revolution of the modern OS's.

In revolution process I noticed that we need in our OS high level programming languages, by the mean that we don't need to be close to the machine low level, it's not necessary except for more advanced programmers who need that, so who needs low level programming can deal with something like C, but for many many programming purposes we need something smooth like BASIC. And the high level concept work in the same direction of revolution.

I assumed that the ideal programming language for normal users have to have some points, "High level programming language", "OOP features without unnecessary complexity or very deep features nor lacking the real meaning of OOP and its basics", "Visual programming", "Event driven", "Structured programming"
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Re: Personal thoughts

Post by pascal111 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:19 pm

I'll say some other points not in its order but they good to be mentioned and the reader can gather 'em together with any basic core in the thread he likes. Although computers now aren't open directly with BASIC interpreter like the period of home computers and computers are used now for many purposes without needing the users to learn programming but it's a good word that once I've read that programming is an useful and enjoyable activity like music, painting, sport ... etc, I think it's so useful if it dosen't too came as a necessary thing to learn and do some programming for people of new modern era.

A vision I remembered said that one of beauty reasons in BASIC is when it took some of Pascal language logic and attributes, and Pascal seemed to agree with Blaise Pascal nature and logic.
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Re: Personal thoughts

Post by pascal111 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:32 pm

Now, we reached to VB6 station, and after it I can't tell you how programming looks like because I've no real idea, VB6 is one of most successive products of Microsoft at least before .Net languages coming, I worked some on it and taste of its beauty, it's high level, visual, event driven, structured programming, has some OOP, has the same spirit of classic BASIC. There are so many books about it, forums were talking about it so much at some periods, by the mean that with all ways you'll found support for this language, now, it's out of Microsoft supporting, so bad news, if it's still in the supporting of Microsoft, I expect that many many programmers will use it and abandon VB.Net which honestly I've no idea how much it's good or bad, and an important point is that to realize the quality of something and the differences, you need to know other forms of the software and previous one, without that you'll have no realizing and you'll be the son of the new product that's between your hands and you don't know truly how much it's good or bad.
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Re: Personal thoughts

Post by Moem » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:38 pm

... have you considered starting a blog?
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Re: Personal thoughts

Post by pascal111 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:52 pm

Moem wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:38 pm
... have you considered starting a blog?
A blog for computers, not yet, I lack many of basics and many parts of computer knowledge, I'm planning to study computer more deeply, but before that I need to improve my knowledge in science because it seemed to me that science fields like mathematics, physics ... etc are one of basic things to invade any other field of knowledge, I'm reading these days calculus for dummies to be more able to deal with physics for now.

Computer turn will come :)
Linux and particularly Linux Mint is one of reasons to cut my scientific study these days to read and talk about computers.
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Re: Personal thoughts

Post by pascal111 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:30 pm

I assume that VB6 made Microsoft to gain millions of dollars, and VB didn't fail to continue, Microsoft stopped supporting it, why?!
In middle east, many many Arabic and English books about VB6 at that time, everyone wants to learn it, a huge library of code for VB6 in various purposes of programming, why to stop all of this?!

VB6 can beat VC at that time, not because VB6 is stronger than VC but because many many programs we don't have to program 'em by the complexity of VC, you can simply program 'em with VB6.

VC is a general purpose programming language, and also VB6, but although that you'll need VC++ in some accurate kinds of programming purposes, you can do the other smoothly with VB6, did Microsoft stopped VB6 because it harms other products like VC++?!

I think VB6 is a monster that can made millions millions of dollars, and huge amounts of code libraries, why they stopped this monster, I don't know how the world of computer looks like today if Microsoft is still supporting VB6 and giving it more new flexible feature, VC++ will be for a specific class of programmers.
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Re: Personal thoughts

Post by pascal111 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:48 pm

When I'm talking about revolution, programming, I'm talking about richness, not poorness nor narrow minded, I'm talking about the most level the technology can reach, space, no limits, in many fields of life we can touch poorness of some minds, I don't want this to happen to knowledge, or we'll lose the values, importance, magic and beauty of true civilization.

VB6 means Visual user interfaces programs, means revolution, means why Linux or Windows or any other OS has a visual desktop. We make applications of these systems by using visual programming or to have visual interfaces for the normal users.

I've difficulty to use VB6, not in its running but in how that I'm using a non supported programming language, supporting is necessary, I've looked for an equivalent in Linux and found Gambas, we thank its makers and the first one who made it too but when I searched for supporting like VB6, I realized that Gambas need more and more, I've read in a Linux book that it's not matter how much a Linux distro is powerful if you can't find good supporting for it, and this's true, if I can't found information I need about my distro I can't use it, it'll be useless.
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Re: Personal thoughts

Post by pascal111 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:10 am

For the mentioning of retro computing, I remembered a vision that said that DOS is accomplish tasks with commands in a classic way, normal way, but Linux is doing that with a philosophic artistic way that gives you the feeling that you're using a modern technology "the computer", but it's the same tasks.

It's clear that Linux has its ways, for example it's different than both of DOS and Windows in installing new programs, it's not bad way, but it's different, I think it'll be beautiful if it's understood how-to, but for beginners and those who have no idea about how Linux works, they'll thing it's complex unbeautiful way. Philosophy is so beautiful, but for those who understand its beauty.
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Re: Personal thoughts

Post by Moem » Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:11 pm

pascal111 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:10 am
for beginners and those who have no idea about how Linux works, they'll thing it's complex unbeautiful way.
Not if they stick with the Software Manager while they are beginners. It doesn't really get less complex than that.
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Re: Personal thoughts

Post by pascal111 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:40 pm

We need the GUI tools in the beginning but with the understanding of the some philosophies and basics of Linux.
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Re: Personal thoughts

Post by pascal111 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:54 pm

One of interesting points is Windows supporting Arabic language, since the first days of Windows at unknown time point to me Windows supported Arabic tongue, this's one of reasons that made Windows to spread widely and wildly in middle east, with GUI the number of users increased so much.

At DOS period, a limited number I guess of computer users exists in middle east, it's like computers are for those are familiar with commands and good educated, but with GUI Windows offered and Arabic tongue supporting, low educated and kids can use computers, so the number increased so much. Making Arabic applications too for companies and small projects that using computers are good point too to spread the using of computer in general in middle east.

I think to spread Linux well in middle east can be with good Arabic supporting, Arabic applications for companies and personal projects of trading.

There were too at that period good number of Arabic books talking about Windows, good Arabic translated terms for Windows, there's many ways to translate to Arabic because it's a vast language, and there's a way like seen in many Arabic books of Windows that has like a formal and high level Arabic terms for English of Windows.

I didn't navigate for supporting in Linux via Arabic forums for Linux, my good luck is that my broken English helps me some to struggle and learn by English, I prefer English in computer learning because you learn with the source itself which made the computer or which can squeeze and understand and translate well from another sources for computer like french or Japanese, suppose Japanese programmers made something or french programmers, the source language is so different now, but English translator can do it well. So I can learn with the source language and I can translate to Arabic for others if I needed that, but no body asked me to learn Linux yet, or I don't have much friends caring in computers like me :D
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