South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

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South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by AZgl1500 » Sun May 19, 2019 8:44 am

https://betanews.com/2019/05/18/korea-linux/

South Korea will ditch Microsoft Windows for Linux

like me, they don't trust Win10

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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by Pierre » Sun May 19, 2019 9:07 am

will it just be an rerun of LiMux ?
- the City of Munich in Germany - did eventually switch back again :shock:
their cost was their main reason, in the end.
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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by michael louwe » Sun May 19, 2019 12:13 pm

M$ has bent backwards for the China government and gave them a Win 10 Ent China Government Edition which can be stripped of all its forced Telemetry & Data collection by the China government = no possibility of M$ or the NSA using Win 10 to spy on the China government.
....... The China government allows widespread Windows piracy within China = most ordinary China-ese will be using "pirated" Win 10 Ent China Government Edition for free, ie not Win 10 Home or Pro or Ent or LTSC.

Seems, M$ has refused to extend the same to the South Korean government, who has helped M$ by disallowing Windows piracy within SK = the SK government rejecting the Win 10 'spyware' and adopting Linux after the EOL of Win 7 in Jan 2020. If so, this may be one good reason for computer users to have a communist government like China, eg South Koreans should let North Korea "unify" the country into communism = Win 10 Ent Korean Government Edition.*sarcasm*
Last edited by michael louwe on Sun May 19, 2019 1:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by michael louwe » Sun May 19, 2019 12:27 pm

If Google, Facebook, Amazon and Twitter could conduct all their inhouse operations using Linux = saved millions in operating costs by not having to pay the M$ "tax" or Windows license fees, I don't see why the South Korean government cannot do the same. All the SK government need is some Linux experts like "gm10". Otherwise, she can also contract with Red Hat Ent Linux/IBM for full 24/7 tech support.

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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by michael louwe » Sun May 19, 2019 12:37 pm

Pierre wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 9:07 am
will it just be an rerun of LiMux ?
- the City of Munich in Germany - did eventually switch back again :shock:
their cost was their main reason, in the end.
.
The biggest shift since the LiMux project started in 2003 has been political, with the CSU party, which has long opposed the use of open-source software at the council, now in a ruling coaltion with the SPD. It was this coalition of CSU and SPD politicians that put forward the proposals to switch back to Windows 10 earlier this year.

One of the Munich insiders believes the turning point for the project was the departure in 2014 of mayor Christian Ude, a longstanding advocate for the LiMux project.

"That's really missing, if you don't have any political support, then you can't argue on technical grounds anymore," they said, with the second source calling the decision to return to Windows "purely political".
https://www.techrepublic.com/article/li ... it-matter/ - From Linux to Windows 10: Why did Munich switch and why does it matter? - Nov 23, 2017

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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by gm10 » Sun May 19, 2019 12:44 pm

Pierre wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 9:07 am
their cost was their main reason, in the end.
Not really, Munich consistently reported significant savings while running LiMux compared to when they were running Windows actually. Some infrastructural issues aside, the "problem" was the politicians complained that they didn't have admin rights on the systems and couldn't install Skype and such themselves. Seriously. And likely more importantly, Microsoft spent a lot of money in the right pockets, including moving their German headquarters to Munich.

Something similar happened to the financial administration of the German state Lower Saxony, which had never used Windows before but will now be migrated to Windows due to a political decision (which usually means that money changed hands again).

So the only cost at play here is the cost of buying politicians. Free software doesn't exactly have a lobby that could fill politician's pockets. :wink:

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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by Pjotr » Sun May 19, 2019 1:00 pm

The most consistently successful desktop Linux transition by a government organization, since 2008, is probably still the French national police (Gendarmerie nationale):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GendBuntu

Just shows that besides beating up their own citizens ("les gilets jaunes") on a weekly basis, they're also capable of keeping up some good things. :twisted:

The South Korea transition is a big thing. South Korea might very well be the most sophisticated high-tech country in the world; if such a country switches to desktop Linux for its government, that has a worldwide impact.
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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by vansloneker » Mon May 20, 2019 2:28 am

My thoughts as well: if any country should be capable of switching to Linux it is South Korea .
Even if the basic operating system comes free, it doesn't mean though it comes at no costs. Linux also needs admins, support, et al.
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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by HaveaMint » Mon May 20, 2019 6:37 am

Linux admins and support, is this like a Maytag repairman?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXJ0rAyE_mQ
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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by BG405 » Mon May 20, 2019 10:31 am

Pjotr wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 1:00 pm
The South Korea transition is a big thing. South Korea might very well be the most sophisticated high-tech country in the world; if such a country switches to desktop Linux for its government, that has a worldwide impact.
I certainly hope so! We'll have to watch out for other governments following suit. I guess that is more likely to happen now, with SK taking this important step in the right direction.
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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by Derek_S » Mon May 20, 2019 12:55 pm

Keep one thing in mind when discussing governments switching to Linux: For the most part, government employees aren't exactly the sharpest crayons in the box. They usually become government employees because they don't have the skills or the ambition to succeed in the private sector. No matter how much money or how much time you're willing to devote to re-training them, some of them will either be unable or unwilling to make the transition. And firing them usually isn't an option, you're stuck with them.
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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by mediclaser » Mon May 20, 2019 5:14 pm

Derek_S wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 12:55 pm
... government employees aren't exactly the sharpest crayons in the box. They usually become government employees because they don't have the skills or the ambition to succeed in the private sector. No matter how much money or how much time you're willing to devote to re-training them, some of them will either be unable or unwilling to make the transition....
Are you talking about South Koreans or Americans in general?
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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by Portreve » Mon May 20, 2019 7:31 pm

On the one hand, I'm thrilled any time an entity or natural person switches to GNU+Linux. On the other hand, I also recognize that most of humanity is too ill-informed, disinformed, or outright malinformed to ever make the right decisions, much less for the right reasons, and so I don't really have any particular expectations.

I wish South Korea well, and I sincerely hope they really are making this switch for the right reasons, and not just for "cost" or just because of Microsoft alone. The argument in favor of libre software is bigger than that.
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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by ajgringo619 » Mon May 20, 2019 8:01 pm

Portreve wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 7:31 pm
I wish South Korea well, and I sincerely hope they really are making this switch for the right reasons, and not just for "cost" or just because of Microsoft alone. The argument in favor of libre software is bigger than that.
You are so right about the cost. Obviously, after the switch is complete, the cost savings should be substantial. The transitional costs, however - conversion, training, (most likely) new IT personnel - could torpedo the project before it even starts. And on top of all that, it's the government making all the decisions - good luck with that. I can still remember when IBM finally made Firefox its official browser for its internal network - it was 5 years in the works, trying to convert all of the IE-only HTML/Java code, and still wasn't close to being completed when I left. I can't imagine the logistics that it would take to (competently) switch an entire user base from one OS to another.
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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by RIH » Mon May 20, 2019 9:26 pm

Even if they did not move from Microsoft, the move from Windows 7 to Windows 10 would require some comprehensive & expensive end user training as the 2 systems are poles apart.
For end users the switch from Windows 7 to a Linux Desktop (depending on which they end up selecting) is probably an easier step than from 7 to 10.

I have never been involved in system administration of either product, but I imagine that will also be significantly different between Microsoft & Linux.

Additional issues will come (as they did in Munich) with bespoke software that Departments have written solely to run on Windows.

Good luck to them - I think that they will need it, but certainly not because Linux is an inferior offering to Windows.. :D
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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by Derek_S » Mon May 20, 2019 10:23 pm

mediclaser wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 5:14 pm
Derek_S wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 12:55 pm
... government employees aren't exactly the sharpest crayons in the box. They usually become government employees because they don't have the skills or the ambition to succeed in the private sector. No matter how much money or how much time you're willing to devote to re-training them, some of them will either be unable or unwilling to make the transition....
Are you talking about South Koreans or Americans in general?
Actually, I was talking about government employees all over the world. They're in the habit of wasting both time and money on a colossal scale. Projects end up years behind schedule and billions over cost wherever and whenever the government gets involved. If you want cost savings and efficiency, look to the private sector.
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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by Pierre » Mon May 20, 2019 11:16 pm

actually, I'd have to disagree with you Derek, on the Private Sector being more efficient.

as, in this state, there has been an steady push by the various State Gov'ts to Privatisation,
and that has lead to an steady increase in costs,
as almost all of those Private Corporations, have increase their Contact Price, and they are now the expensive option

it will still be interesting to watch the South Korean peninsula on this move away from Microsoft, though.
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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by michael louwe » Tue May 21, 2019 6:16 am

Derek_S wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 12:55 pm
Keep one thing in mind when discussing governments switching to Linux: For the most part, government employees aren't exactly the sharpest crayons in the box. They usually become government employees because they don't have the skills or the ambition to succeed in the private sector. No matter how much money or how much time you're willing to devote to re-training them, some of them will either be unable or unwilling to make the transition. And firing them usually isn't an option, you're stuck with them.
.
Software used by the government sector and private sector are quite different, ie software used by the private sector are often much more complex and advanced, eg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYleuh3nzXI - ROBOT BRICKLAYER CAN BUILD A BRICK HOUSE IN TWO DAYS. The Western government sector is mostly into enforcing government policies, regulations and laws, mainly in order to maintain peace, orderliness, national security and prosperity in the country. The government sector often regulates and imposes taxation on the private sector. Previously, everything was done by the government sector with pen and paper, especially the filling of forms for approvals and certification, eg apply for licenses for business, driving, passport, IPO listing, etc. Today, a lot of government stuffs are done online, especially in developed countries like South Korea and USA, eg file taxes online to the IRS with Turbo Tax..
....... So, computerizing or OS-transitioning the government sector is usually much simpler than computerizing or OS-transitioning the private sector.

In South Korea, every citizen is required by the government to be part of a Family Register (Book) that may trace his/her ancestry back to about 40 generations ago or about 1,000 years ago. This is because about 1,000 years ago, a Chinese Emperor had decreed that every citizen began recording a Family Register, which practice was also adopted by the vassal SKorean kingdom. Today, every SKorean citizen has a national ID number and are finger-printed. To post or shop or bank online, SKorean citizens are required to use their national ID.

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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by Portreve » Tue May 21, 2019 12:55 pm

From what I've seen, fugengeht grays and waste is inextricably tied to the private sector's hunger for profit. Anyone saying the Government is wasteful and the private sector is efficient is, frankly, either ignorant or on the take.
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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by gm10 » Tue May 21, 2019 1:10 pm

Portreve wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 12:55 pm
From what I've seen, fugengeht grays and waste is inextricably tied to the private sector's hunger for profit. Anyone saying the Government is wasteful and the private sector is efficient is, frankly, either ignorant or on the take.
Well, it's in the nature of things. Private companies are profit driven, the government is not. That does not mean that corruption for the detriment of a company does not exist, nor does it mean that government decisions purely for the benefit of the governed do not exist. Just that the systems in place make each of them less likely. And, of course, the two are often intertwined.

Once you've live a certain number of years you realize that people are fundamentally selfish and even behind an apparently self-less deed you can usually find a selfish motivation. Yes, I'm jaded. But it's also true, unfortunately.

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