South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by Pjotr » Tue May 21, 2019 1:30 pm

gm10 wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 1:10 pm
Once you've live a certain number of years you realize that people are fundamentally selfish and even behind an apparently self-less deed you can usually find a selfish motivation. Yes, I'm jaded. But it's also true, unfortunately.
Well, I don't think that's unfortunate.... People are not so good, indeed. But not so bad, either. We must take human nature as it is. Beyond good and evil, as Nietzsche would say. :wink:
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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by gm10 » Tue May 21, 2019 2:00 pm

Pjotr wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 1:30 pm
Well, I don't think that's unfortunate.... People are not so good, indeed. But not so bad, either. We must take human nature as it is. Beyond good and evil, as Nietzsche would say. :wink:
Yes, and while Nietzsche did describe human nature at large quite well, that still allows me to find it unfortunate, same as I would like to disagree with Nietzsche's idea of good and evil only being a consideration for the powerless for lack of another means of elevating their power (I'm slightly paraphrasing), no matter how much truth (unfortunately!) can be found in that. What can I say, while my mind sees reality quite clearly, I'm an idealist at heart.

I'm sure there's a metaphor describing the Linux community to be found somewhere in that. ;)

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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by Derek_S » Tue May 21, 2019 3:06 pm

Portreve wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 12:55 pm
From what I've seen, fugengeht grays and waste is inextricably tied to the private sector's hunger for profit. Anyone saying the Government is wasteful and the private sector is efficient is, frankly, either ignorant or on the take.
Well, I beg to differ. The government isn't required to turn a profit on anything they do. If you want proof just look at the U.S. Postal Service* as one example. If they find themselves short on money, they can raise more by issuing government bonds, or borrow money from a large bank or foreign government, or simply raise taxes on their citizens - I'm sure everyone has experienced that time and time again.

On the other hand, a private company must operate in a manner that's fiscally responsible and profitable. They can't afford to do otherwise. If a private company gets involved in a project and finds themselves running out of the funds needed to complete the project, they have two choices: Borrow the money needed to continue operating from a bank, or file for Chapter 13 proceedings. NOTE: A publicly owned company can also to raise money by selling additional shares of it's stock. A private company doesn't have that option.

Also, without profit, there is zero opportunity for growth, meaning no money for new employees, equipment, or infrastructure.

*The U.S. Postal Service was created by a Congressional charter in 1775. Nowhere in that charter, or later on in the U.S. Constitution, is there any mention that the U.S.P.S. is required to operate at a profit, and that's because it was created as a service to the people. It was never intended to be a business that would earn money for the government. I've seen a lot of people in the media and even our own Congress get that completely wrong and criticize the U.S.P.S. for operating at a loss year after year.
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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by michael louwe » Tue May 21, 2019 4:01 pm

The OP report states that the SKorean Ministry of Interior will be moving from Win 7 to Linux after Jan 2020. As per https://www.mois.go.kr/eng/sub/a02/abou ... /screen.do , this is quite doable. But I doubt the Ministry of Defence and Ministry of Health will be able to do the same because military training, weaponry and hospital/medical systems still mostly rely on Windows.

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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by Pjotr » Tue May 21, 2019 6:50 pm

gm10 wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 2:00 pm
Yes, and while Nietzsche did describe human nature at large quite well, that still allows me to find it unfortunate, same as I would like to disagree with Nietzsche's idea of good and evil only being a consideration for the powerless for lack of another means of elevating their power (I'm slightly paraphrasing), no matter how much truth (unfortunately!) can be found in that.
Well, personally I think Nietzsche exaggerated a bit. The average human does have a social sense and has therefore, by nature, some limited inclination to help others. Limited, because self-interest naturally comes first (which generally is also for the best, I think).

But the average human is not so bad. One shouldn't put one's expectations too high, but most people are rather decent. Which is as good as it gets, and as it will ever get. :mrgreen:

If Nietzsche wouldn't have been such an incurable romantic, he probably wouldn't have been driven to such merciless extremist, and therefore ultimately unrealistic, views and philosophies. And maybe he would even have been spared insanity (although his uncured syphilis of course didn't help).

A touch of French "bon sens" would certainly have done him a power of good. One has to hand it to the French: no people that I know of has the same amount of clear-headed horse sense. Romance, with all its destructive potential, has always had remarkably little effect on the French. Good for them.
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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by stormryder » Tue May 21, 2019 10:43 pm

Portreve wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 12:55 pm
Anyone saying the Government is wasteful and the private sector is efficient is, frankly, either ignorant or on the take.
I own my own business and I am not on the take, thank you very much. I work hard for the money I earn and you are welcome to work with me if you can keep up. The government is so full of wasteful bureaucracy its ridiculous, I guess I'm just ignorant for wanting to work for myself without big brother telling me what to do.
gm10 wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 1:10 pm
Private companies are profit driven, the government is not.

Exactly, the government can waste as much of your money as they feel like and then just raise your taxes when they run out. What are you going to do? Protest? They'll just run you down with the armored cars you bought them.

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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by gm10 » Tue May 21, 2019 10:51 pm

stormryder wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 10:43 pm
They'll just run you down with the armored cars you bought them.
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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by lsemmens » Wed May 22, 2019 10:04 pm

gm10 wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 10:51 pm
stormryder wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 10:43 pm
They'll just run you down with the armored cars you bought them.
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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by jimallyn » Thu May 23, 2019 2:36 am

I will add one comment to the government/private efficiency debate: private health insurance companies, with their outrageous profits, have an overhead of 20 to 30 percent. Meanwhile, the US Medicare system runs around 2 or 3 percent overhead. But then, they don't have any CEOs that are paid millions of dollars per year. At any rate, in this particular instance, government health care insurance is approximately 10 times more efficient than private health care insurance. I suspect the same would be found in a lot of other industries.
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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by jimallyn » Thu May 23, 2019 2:41 am

I can't imagine why South Korea is going to upgrade their hardware to run Linux, since Linux doesn't have the bloat that Windows does, and runs faster than Windows does. I have installed Linux on old Windows computers for quite a number of family, friends, and others, and almost every time they comment, "Wow, this is faster than Windows was even when it was brand new!"
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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by gm10 » Thu May 23, 2019 3:02 am

jimallyn wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 2:36 am
I will add one comment to the government/private efficiency debate: private health insurance companies, with their outrageous profits, have an overhead of 20 to 30 percent. Meanwhile, the US Medicare system runs around 2 or 3 percent overhead. But then, they don't have any CEOs that are paid millions of dollars per year. At any rate, in this particular instance, government health care insurance is approximately 10 times more efficient than private health care insurance. I suspect the same would be found in a lot of other industries.
Bad example considering the US has probably the most expensive because most corrupt healthcare system in the world.

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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by Pjotr » Thu May 23, 2019 3:06 am

gm10 wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 3:02 am
the US has probably the most expensive because most corrupt healthcare system in the world.
You sound as if you've once broken a leg in the USA and had to pay one million dollars for the plaster cast. :lol:
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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by jimallyn » Thu May 23, 2019 4:45 am

gm10 wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 3:02 am
Bad example considering the US has probably the most expensive because most corrupt healthcare system in the world.
True, but that doesn't alter the fact that government run healthcare insurance is better than privately run healthcare insurance. Not probably the most expensive, it is the most expensive, and that is largely because of the private healthcare insurance scam and the unregulated pharmaceutical companies. In the US, we pay ten thousand dollars per person per year for health care, while the rest of the world pays six thousand or less. Some of them much less, like 3500 dollars. And they get better healthcare outcomes than we do: longer lifespan, lower infant mortality rate, lower maternal mortality rate, and so on. I enjoyed watching freshman (freshwoman?) Congressional Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez asking a pharma exec why a drug that costs 8 dollars in Australia costs 1800 dollars in the US.
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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by gm10 » Thu May 23, 2019 5:07 am

jimallyn wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 4:45 am
True, but that doesn't alter the fact that government run healthcare insurance is better than privately run healthcare insurance. Not probably the most expensive, it is the most expensive, and that is largely because of the private healthcare insurance scam and the unregulated pharmaceutical companies.
Well, yes, but on what level? Ultimately it only confirms the earlier point. Namely that private companies are always profit driven, while government as a whole isn't. The Medicare system expressly being forbidden from negotiating their own drug prices (unlike in other countries) is the prime example of the system going wrong. Prescription drugs could easily be much cheaper in the US, but I suppose the status quo is too profitable both for the companies and the politicians involved.

At least that's my outside view - I'm not from the US so I don't follow this too closely.

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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by BG405 » Sun May 26, 2019 1:38 pm

I'd think there will be a significant long-term saving, even if the initial "teething troubles" may cost a bit up-front.

With regards to government vs. private companies, it's a bit of a mixed bag here but gernerally Gov't run is better value; as has been stated already, private companies exist for and depend on making a profit. Our council is particularly wasteful though. :x

For example, where I live, the "corporation" bus services were privatized in the 1980s, so we therefore no longer have "Public Transport". There is no cohesion between "services" across the various companies .. either with timing or with the placing of interrconnections. Through routes were stopped years ago; if one needs to get across the city & want to use a "day pass" one usually has to buy two, due to the way the two main operators have carved up the routes between them .. it's really expensive and the buses stop running ridiculously early on many routes i.e. the last bus on Saturday to where one of my mates lives is in the middle of the afternoon & he's not quite "in the sticks", therefore it's a bus into the city centre (1 mile) for £1.60, then a quarter mile walk to the connection (anyone not familiar with the area won't have any idea where the stops are; there's no central transport interchange here & no common bus route map), then another £3 for a five-mile ride followed by a mile trudge where the "service" ends with a round trip costing almost a tenner. The last bus back is well before the pubs shut.

Our northern neighbours still have Public Transport (albeit part privately-owned) & a day ticket is a fraction of that cost. They also have a decent tram system. No chance of that happening here as it's all profit-driven.

Our NHS has had issues with "saving money" by not upgrading their operating systems. Changing to Linux would have avoided a lot, if not all, of those. And that *is* (supposedly) Gov't regulated, there are obviously other exceptions w.r.t. value and sensible budgeting but the healthcare we have is amongst the best. My own treatment would have cost many thousands .. without it, I wouldn't be typing this. Don't think coffins have computer terminals in them.
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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by Greencedar » Mon May 27, 2019 5:57 pm

Hopefully the transition from Windows to Linux will go well for South Korea.

And, hopefully more countries will make the switch from Windows to Linux as well.
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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by lsemmens » Tue May 28, 2019 12:43 am

BG405 wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 1:38 pm
The last bus back is well before the pubs shut.

Our northern neighbours still have Public Transport (albeit part privately-owned) & a day ticket is a fraction of that cost. They also have a decent tram system. No chance of that happening here as it's all profit-driven.
And they wonder why no one uses "public" transport! We have one bus a day (oops every second day - just checked) leaves here at 0950 and returns at 1740 so, time you get to the city you have a 4 hour window to get your stuff done!
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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by BG405 » Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:19 pm

A bit of a delayed response I know .. :oops:

Here's a thought .. inspired by a conversation with a police officer at my local some time last year, who, by the way was quite surprised and intrigued that I was using Linux Mint KDE .. I asked if the police forces were using Linux on any of their systems. The answer was that they effectively had their hands tied (can't remember the exact reasons). However, with Linux's ability to handle most (if not all) current filesystems out-of-the-box, I imagine it would be a good move to adopt Linux; especially as, with forensics, having a Live session which does not modify the media to be examined is essential and, I would think, can be used to analyze such media with potentially better reliability, would be a significant advantage. It would also save a lot of money for police forces, at least in the medium to long term.
lsemmens wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 12:43 am
We have one bus a day (oops every second day - just checked) leaves here at 0950 and returns at 1740 so, time you get to the city you have a 4 hour window to get your stuff done!
Try getting a bus in parts of East Anglia. You'll probably die before one turns up. :!: I'm serious. Around 30 years ago I did several bike rides to the East Coast and back & there were some nice old bus shelters along the route .. apparently, even then, there hadn't been a bus service for 20 years or so .. that would be 50 years now!!! :shock:
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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by Pjotr » Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:58 am

BG405 wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:19 pm
Here's a thought .. inspired by a conversation with a police officer at my local some time last year, who, by the way was quite surprised and intrigued that I was using Linux Mint KDE .. I asked if the police forces were using Linux on any of their systems. The answer was that they effectively had their hands tied (can't remember the exact reasons). However, with Linux's ability to handle most (if not all) current filesystems out-of-the-box, I imagine it would be a good move to adopt Linux; especially as, with forensics, having a Live session which does not modify the media to be examined is essential and, I would think, can be used to analyze such media with potentially better reliability, would be a significant advantage. It would also save a lot of money for police forces, at least in the medium to long term.
The French national police agrees with that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GendBuntu
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Re: South Korea says goodbye to Microsoft

Post by gm10 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:05 am

Probably not for forensics though, those are performed on an image directly, think testdisk but more specialized, so the operating system doesn't matter for that other than to run the forensic software.

Also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_adopters
and (more detailed but in German):
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-Sour ... richtungen
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