So i tried zorin and pop_os

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boyo1991
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So i tried zorin and pop_os

Post by boyo1991 » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:44 pm

I decided to boot them up in a virtual box as i might potentially wanna actually install one of these due to popularity.

Let me start with the good, I liked zorin. I was hoping for a different desktop style, and you kinda get that. Its system wide settings were pretty decent and I liked the toolbar customizability. That was pretty neat. The process of running it was pretty simple and ran smooth and the 4GB of ram i threw at it. It has a pretty nice clean minimalist design that i dig. I enjoyed my (thus far) few moments with it. Not enough to get me to switch over as a full time system as of right now, unless they support my wifi dongle lol but pretty neat all in all..

Now for the bad. WHY THE HYPE BEHIND POP_OS?!?! I am not a fan. They are taking the minimalist thing just way too far. I get it, clean neat desktop, cool idea. Bad in practicality. Take the clutter away, but just hiding it in the closet leaving the end user to have to sort through it. the idea that you cant see apps without using the drop down menu is a hassle. On top of this opening firefox, there was no expansion button, so what you want my browser to just never go full screen? man thats annoying as all heck. If you into pop, cool for you but man i find it quite a headache. I didnt even test the settings since i decided it was NOT going to be for me real quick lmao

What do you guys think of zorin vs pop_os? I prefer to stick to debian, if not hopefully ubuntu bases (not a fan of ubuntu itself) and i usually have good experiences but pop was just a bad experience in my opinion, the first time an ubuntu base was just not good at all.
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Re: So i tried zorin and pop_os

Post by Pierre » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:29 pm

currently, I'm preferring Zorin 15, rather than pop_os.
8)
that Zorin is an nice system, and it was installed on one of my PCs a while back.
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Re: So i tried zorin and pop_os

Post by boyo1991 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:36 am

Yeah I agree zorins pretty darn neat. Pop_os however, the fact that I can't even see my dock/nav bar without a menu, then have to use that bar to find "all apps" bugs the crap out of me personally lol

Part of me is thinking about a dual boot to zorin but it just doesn't have the same support as LM and that's part of the problem too. Just look at the zorin forums totally flips it's desktop on its head it's like a board from the 90s lol
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Re: So i tried zorin and pop_os

Post by In2Blues » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:58 am

I tried both of them and preferred Zorin but in the long run I stayed with LM Cinnamon because I like a lot of the things that come with it.

Zorin loaded super fast and looked nice but was missing a lot of the goodies I have become accustomed to with Cinnamon.

I definitely didn't like Pop_OS. In fact, I couldn't get it to do anything but frustrate me. Could be my system's setup but LM works perfectly so I'm not changing anytime soon.
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Re: So i tried zorin and pop_os

Post by boyo1991 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:10 am

In2Blues wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:58 am
I tried both of them and preferred Zorin but in the long run I stayed with LM Cinnamon because I like a lot of the things that come with it.

Zorin loaded super fast and looked nice but was missing a lot of the goodies I have become accustomed to with Cinnamon.

I definitely didn't like Pop_OS. In fact, I couldn't get it to do anything but frustrate me. Could be my system's setup but LM works perfectly so I'm not changing anytime soon.
I agree. theres so much hype behind pop_os, I tried it because of wendel from level1linux. He was supporting it as a clean system and soon to be definitive OS because its backed by system76. Well I'm sorry but Im not going to go for it lmao. Nothing but frustration here too!

I dont plan on leaving LM cinnamon for a while as it works just fine, I guess I was looking because I was feeling the desktop a bit stale if that makes sense? I mean, yeah it works fine and everything but it doesnt have any of that new fresh idea for a desktop. Cinnamon is so run of the mill. Its not bad, Im just growing a bit bored of it. If I could get zorins desktop but keep everything else LM 19 Id be pretty alright with that, but thats an undertaking and the amount of programming I know wouldnt even allow me to know where to begin :P
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Re: So i tried zorin and pop_os

Post by thx-1138 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:13 am

...the hype (Pop_OS) is because they are an actual computer manufacturer.
It's not like there are many out there focusing on Linux - quite the contrary,
and if you buy one of their systems, you know it will work properly out of the box.
That is, because in that manner, they control both the hardware & software stack.

Personally i'm very interested in some of their in-house-developed tools,
i find them to have some rather fresh ideas from time to time,
and i like the fact that they're trying to be modern in their underlying implementation.
Eg. their firmware updating process, the fact that they try to disable IntelME...interesting stuff.

As a more simplistic example, which isn't tied that much on the hardware they build & sell,
and although i don't really consider it to be 100% 'there', their idea of NOT using grub2,
(as it's done in 99% of the *buntus / debians out there),
but instead using systemd-boot, or else loading the kernel's EFI stub directly.
I actually use their kernelstub on my system right now.
See, it all depends on what you're looking in a distro ;-)

Now whether someone enjoys their 'desktop' paradigm as it is out-of-the-box, that's 'another story'.
I never cared so far to actually download their .iso and check it as a 'whole' - however,
if i had the $ to buy one of their computers though, i'd happily give it a try.
Whether i'd tweak it to death later on, that's also 'another story'.

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Re: So i tried zorin and pop_os

Post by In2Blues » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:17 am

boyo1991 wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:10 am
soon to be definitive OS because its backed by system76. Well I'm sorry but Im not going to go for it lmao. Nothing but frustration here too!
I was looking at system76, too, but the Pop_OS is a deal breaker for me. If I can get them to put LM on, then it's a go. :-)
boyo1991 wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:10 am
If I could get zorins desktop but keep everything else LM 19 Id be pretty alright with that
lol I thought the same thing. Zorin's desktop look and feel with the extra stuff I like from Cinnamon would be perfect.

The reason I was looking at different distros was because LM was running extremely slow. It's better now (don't know why) but still a little slower than I'd like.

Of course, my new system only has 8GB of RAM and my old one had 16GB. I'm not sure if that's what's slowing things down or not.
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Re: So i tried zorin and pop_os

Post by boyo1991 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:19 am

I hear yah, I apologize if what I said was meant to be a recommendation to others. I am by no means a reviewer, merely felt like sharing my personal experience with the system. Yes, they work as a manufacturer too, but man, I cant use that to justify what I feel like I got, personally anyways.
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Re: So i tried zorin and pop_os

Post by Mage of Maple » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:52 pm

I was disappointed when System76 decided to make their own distro. Maybe more than disappointed, borderline angry. There are hundreds of distros. There are at least a dozen good ones. They couldn't use one of those? If there was something else they wanted to do, they couldn't use all the development resources they deployed to make a new distro to improve Ubuntu? If they wanted to make small changes that the Ubuntu team didn't want to incorporate, couldn't they have just installed Ubuntu and tweaked it before shipping? And the name ... Pop_OS! with an underscore and an exclamation point? Makes me think the company is run by kids in Junior High. Their doing their own company a disservice with this nonsense. Just imagine trying to sell your company CIO on rolling this out. Selling them on Linux is difficult enough without pitching a fringe distro called Pop_OS!

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Re: So i tried zorin and pop_os

Post by boyo1991 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:21 pm

Mage of Maple wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:52 pm
I was disappointed when System76 decided to make their own distro. Maybe more than disappointed, borderline angry. There are hundreds of distros. There are at least a dozen good ones. They couldn't use one of those? If there was something else they wanted to do, they couldn't use all the development resources they deployed to make a new distro to improve Ubuntu? If they wanted to make small changes that the Ubuntu team didn't want to incorporate, couldn't they have just installed Ubuntu and tweaked it before shipping? And the name ... Pop_OS! with an underscore and an exclamation point? Makes me think the company is run by kids in Junior High. Their doing their own company a disservice with this nonsense. Just imagine trying to sell your company CIO on rolling this out. Selling them on Linux is difficult enough without pitching a fringe distro called Pop_OS!
Yeah i sorta had that feeling too when they first rolled it out.. for the same reasons. like distros could use some work. contribute to those, less work in the end for them anyways.
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Re: So i tried zorin and pop_os

Post by rick gen » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:30 am

boyo1991 wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:44 pm
They are taking the minimalist thing just way too far. I get it, clean neat desktop, cool idea. Bad in practicality. Take the clutter away, but just hiding it in the closet leaving the end user to have to sort through it. the idea that you cant see apps without using the drop down menu is a hassle. On top of this opening firefox, there was no expansion button, so what you want my browser to just never go full screen? man thats annoying as all heck. If you into pop, cool for you but man i find it quite a headache. I didnt even test the settings since i decided it was NOT going to be for me real quick lmao
I'm not a fan of this minimalist thing. To me it only applies to tiny portables like tablets, cell phones, etc., where you don't have the advantage of having a 3 button mouse and a keyboard.

When it comes to desktops, I'd rather take advantage of the huge real estate screen space provided by monitors that are getting bigger and bigger. I'd also would rather benefit from the advantage of having a mouse that not only lets you pick, but scroll and right-click to minimize cursor distance travels, and so on.

This minimalist thing nonsense takes all that away from you. These developers actually think it's cute.

Some like this Elementary OS even gets rid of the minimize button from the upper right corner of the window and your mouse had to travel all the way to the left to click it. It's clean and cute, eh? :?

Such developers obviously haven't been power users of apps like AutoCAD and others in their lives. They actually think getting rid of the RMB power, for example, is a good thing. They think adding many choices to doing things is a bad thing. In AutoCAD, for example, you can invoke a command in many different ways like clicking an icon on the screen, typing a shortcut key on your keyboard, pointing your mouse on a pull-down menu, on you right-mouse button, etc. And you can practically add many more because it's super customizable.

Believe me, when you're a power user, your mind races through everything and accounts for every split second of the process.
The key is less-distance travels of your mouse and less clicks. The icon, for example, is a single click, while a pull-down is 2 or even 3.
But there are split times when you have to pull down the menu because your mouse already happens to be around that area. That's why many efficient programs are designed to be super context sensitive, ie, clicking RMB may provide the command you're looking for.

This might be too complicated for many people to understand, so I'd rather stop here for now.

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Re: So i tried zorin and pop_os

Post by thx-1138 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:50 pm

Mage of Maple wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:52 pm
I was disappointed when System76 decided to make their own distro. Maybe more than disappointed, borderline angry. There are hundreds of distros. There are at least a dozen good ones. They couldn't use one of those? If there was something else they wanted to do, they couldn't use all the development resources they deployed to make a new distro to improve Ubuntu? If they wanted to make small changes that the Ubuntu team didn't want to incorporate, couldn't they have just installed Ubuntu and tweaked it before shipping? And the name ... Pop_OS! with an underscore and an exclamation point? Makes me think the company is run by kids in Junior High. Their doing their own company a disservice with this nonsense. Just imagine trying to sell your company CIO on rolling this out. Selling them on Linux is difficult enough without pitching a fringe distro called Pop_OS!
...why would anyone be 'borderline angry' in regards to how anyone handles their business, is a bit beyond me...
(did they 'stole' your customers or something?) :)
Other than that, no idea what you're saying there - apparently you've never had a look in their git repos (1, 2):
it's obvious they wanted to make way more than 'small changes that the Ubuntu team didn't want to incorporate'.

Don't like the name myself either, i don't think it was a great choice by any means (marketing mainly, as you said).
Not sure why you're bashing them for the rest though.

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Re: So i tried zorin and pop_os

Post by athi » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:11 pm

rick gen wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:30 am
boyo1991 wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:44 pm
They are taking the minimalist thing just way too far. I get it, clean neat desktop, cool idea. Bad in practicality. Take the clutter away, but just hiding it in the closet leaving the end user to have to sort through it. the idea that you cant see apps without using the drop down menu is a hassle. On top of this opening firefox, there was no expansion button, so what you want my browser to just never go full screen? man thats annoying as all heck. If you into pop, cool for you but man i find it quite a headache. I didnt even test the settings since i decided it was NOT going to be for me real quick lmao
I'm not a fan of this minimalist thing. To me it only applies to tiny portables like tablets, cell phones, etc., where you don't have the advantage of having a 3 button mouse and a keyboard.

When it comes to desktops, I'd rather take advantage of the huge real estate screen space provided by monitors that are getting bigger and bigger. I'd also would rather benefit from the advantage of having a mouse that not only lets you pick, but scroll and right-click to minimize cursor distance travels, and so on.

This minimalist thing nonsense takes all that away from you. These developers actually think it's cute.

Some like this Elementary OS even gets rid of the minimize button from the upper right corner of the window and your mouse had to travel all the way to the left to click it. It's clean and cute, eh? :?

Such developers obviously haven't been power users of apps like AutoCAD and others in their lives. They actually think getting rid of the RMB power, for example, is a good thing. They think adding many choices to doing things is a bad thing. In AutoCAD, for example, you can invoke a command in many different ways like clicking an icon on the screen, typing a shortcut key on your keyboard, pointing your mouse on a pull-down menu, on you right-mouse button, etc. And you can practically add many more because it's super customizable.

Believe me, when you're a power user, your mind races through everything and accounts for every split second of the process.
The key is less-distance travels of your mouse and less clicks. The icon, for example, is a single click, while a pull-down is 2 or even 3.
But there are split times when you have to pull down the menu because your mouse already happens to be around that area. That's why many efficient programs are designed to be super context sensitive, ie, clicking RMB may provide the command you're looking for.

This might be too complicated for many people to understand, so I'd rather stop here for now.
Can't agree with you more, I think that these guys got their styling cues from the Apple "If it looks good, it must be good" form over function school. I cannot believe how restrictive and limited OSX was the first time that I had to deal with it. How do you live without a file manager or how you must know what application created a file to find the file? Unbelievable.
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Re: So i tried zorin and pop_os

Post by jglen490 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:59 pm

O.K., so I went to System 76 and "designed" a system that approximates my current desktop system.

That would run me ~ $1,300. I'm currently into my system for about half that. I'm using a UEFI based system, straight off the shelf. I installed Kubuntu 18.04 LTS on it. Turned it on, booted straight up no problems and it's been booting that way every day for the past year. As I see it the fundamental difference is the open source firmware, and the appearance difference is significant but immaterial. My case is very quiet and the environment inside is remarkably cool. It's good that System 76 is trying to promote open source operating systems, open source software, and open source firmware, but frankly there is nothing about the System 76 that turns my head.
I feel more like I do than I did when I got here.
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