Its possible to install EFI Grub without whole Linux, if yes how?

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ruthan
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Its possible to install EFI Grub without whole Linux, if yes how?

Post by ruthan » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:39 pm

Hello,
i have some device, where i dont have a disk space to waste and even if can install some very small distro etc.. there is time to learn something new, so its possible to install EFI Grub without whole Linux, if yes how?

If it matter i want to start Win10 and Androidx86.

If Grub can boot without Linux partition where so safe grub.cfg configuration files?

Other possibility would be other bootloader which is able to boot EFI files.. I tried Grub for Windows long time ago, but i dont thing that i could be even installed on NTFS partition and i doubt what it support EFI at all.

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catweazel
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Re: Its possible to install EFI Grub without whole Linux, if yes how?

Post by catweazel » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:51 pm

ruthan wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:39 pm
Other possibility would be other bootloader which is able to boot EFI files.
http://www.rodsbooks.com/refind/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/refind/
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ruthan
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Re: Its possible to install EFI Grub without whole Linux, if yes how?

Post by ruthan » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:57 pm

I tried and met refind more that once and too complex for me.. i try clover but i again i dunno if working without MacOS and if yes where is some configuration file.
Grub is able to boot EFI files too.

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catweazel
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Re: Its possible to install EFI Grub without whole Linux, if yes how?

Post by catweazel » Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:01 pm

ruthan wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:57 pm
I tried and met refind more that once and too complex for me.
What is too complex about writing rEFInd to a flash drive, booting from it and selecting an icon for the EFI OS to be booted?

I use this tool in emergencies and it couldn't be simpler.
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gm10
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Re: Its possible to install EFI Grub without whole Linux, if yes how?

Post by gm10 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:49 pm

UEFI has a built-in boot manager so if you want to minimize your footprint why not just use that? Boot device selection is usually accessed via Esc during boot but your system may have a different hotkey like F8 or yet something else.
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ruthan
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Re: Its possible to install EFI Grub without whole Linux, if yes how?

Post by ruthan » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:00 am

UEFI has a built-in boot manager so if you want to minimize your footprint why not just use that? Boot device selection is usually accessed via Esc during boot but your system may have a different hotkey like F8 or yet something else.
Its not such simple, some desktop board can select UEFI boot entry from NVRAM where these entries are saved, but lots of them especially laptops, tablets can do it.. so no direct EFI boot is possible and you need some EFI bootmanager to handle it.

ruthan
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Re: Its possible to install EFI Grub without whole Linux, if yes how?

Post by ruthan » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:09 am

catweazel wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:01 pm
What is too complex about writing rEFInd to a flash drive, booting from it and selecting an icon for the EFI OS to be booted?
I use this tool in emergencies and it couldn't be simpler.
First of all i dont want to always have to attached USB flashdisk to boot my machine. Can be this flashdisk created from Windows and How? Can i install rEFIND from that flashdisk or from Windows? I not how install it from Live USB Linux?

When i tried rEFInd, i had problems to install, when i install it there was problem to configure it.. i see lots of tutorials in my life but some rEFInd tutorial for triple boot and one of most scary which i saw.. there are very, very long to it cant be simple.
If would rEFINd work fine, there would not be Chameleon, Chimera and Clover.

Otherwise i tried old Clover 4173, i dont need MacOS installed, but i dunno how to configure default boot entry and remove some non used entries (there is something like like Legacy HD1, Legacy H2 up to 5 except usefull entries.. i have only one HDD).. I just backported it to EFi partition from other machine, i doubt if can be installed from Windows? I dunno if some proper install is needed or is possible to extract instalaltion package and just copy some files to Windows partition would be good enough, same for upgrading (maintain MacOS only for boot manager would suck).

Grub2WIn - is maybe what i want, i tried it in on EFI Windows 7 machine virtual.. it installed find and added some item under Windows 7 boot menu.. so its not ideal, i would rather to be started before Windows 7 boot menu, but maybe it will be work, in description is EFI mentioned as supported.

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Re: Its possible to install EFI Grub without whole Linux, if yes how?

Post by gm10 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:47 am

ruthan wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:00 am
UEFI has a built-in boot manager so if you want to minimize your footprint why not just use that? Boot device selection is usually accessed via Esc during boot but your system may have a different hotkey like F8 or yet something else.
Its not such simple, some desktop board can select UEFI boot entry from NVRAM where these entries are saved, but lots of them especially laptops, tablets can do it.. so no direct EFI boot is possible and you need some EFI bootmanager to handle it.
A boot manager is part of the UEFI specification, every UEFI must contain one. The only part that's optional is actually offering a boot menu. So in some cheap implementations you may have to enter the UEFI itself to switch.
Tune up your LM 19.x: ppa:gm10/linuxmint-tools

ruthan
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Re: Its possible to install EFI Grub without whole Linux, if yes how?

Post by ruthan » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:48 am

gm10 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:47 am
A boot manager is part of the UEFI specification, every UEFI must contain one. The only part that's optional is actually offering a boot menu. So in some cheap implementations you may have to enter the UEFI itself to switch.
That is theory. At least my Toshiba Portege Z20 (Toshiba branded UEFI there is very few options) and GPD Win 2 (so generic intel Bios/UEFI) dont have option to select EFI file entry.. they have boot menu but its on level on select boot device only, not EFI file (and even on desktop MB i didnt see EFI file in boot menu, only in some in bios / UEFI option). For such situation you have to use some utility like HasLeo UEFI or BootIce to select NVRAM boot entry, or you probably can use EFI shell and some commands.
So yes there EFI boot entries in NVRAM, but there is not option to select them from BIOS / UEFI, i dunno if this is enough to make specification pass, or they dont care.. Or maybe you need some magic hotkey to enable such options. On both device i have Secure boot disable so that is not source of problem.

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Re: Its possible to install EFI Grub without whole Linux, if yes how?

Post by gm10 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:54 am

Doesn't sound like a big issue, how often do you need to change the NVRAM? You add your new system once after installation and you're done with it. You can do it manually via efibootmgr if your distribution's installer didn't take care of it.
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Re: Its possible to install EFI Grub without whole Linux, if yes how?

Post by pbear » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:06 pm

Perhaps I missed it. Does this question have anything to do with Mint?
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If your problem has been solved, please edit the thread title.

ruthan
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Re: Its possible to install EFI Grub without whole Linux, if yes how?

Post by ruthan » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:13 pm

Its about Grub and Mint is using it, im using Mint too, but not for this application. If you will try to tell me go elsewhere to disscuss it, i would be linux community toxicity+1 thing. I like Mint because it seems to have more people friendly culture.

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Re: Its possible to install EFI Grub without whole Linux, if yes how?

Post by gm10 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:21 pm

ruthan wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:13 pm
If you will try to tell me go elsewhere to disscuss it, i would be linux community toxicity+1 thing.
Lol, that escalated quickly. The forum having rules has got nothing to do with toxicity. I did't care enough before but after that statement I did report the thread as off-topic just now. Which means it'll get moved into the chat section. Get worked up about it if you want I guess.
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Re: Its possible to install EFI Grub without whole Linux, if yes how?

Post by Moem » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:25 pm

gm10 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:21 pm
it'll get moved into the chat section.
Done. Feel free to keep the thread going there; it's fine, it's just not a Mint support question, is all.
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