Did you expect that you'll use Linux?!

Chat about Linux in general
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LanceM
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Re: Did you expect that you'll use Linux?!

Post by LanceM »

DAMIEN1307 wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:44 pm
hi blueocean,
I used my old copies of Windows disks along with old AOL disks for skeet shooting practice...lol..Amazing what you can do with "double-aught buckshot"...DAMIEN
Ha ha, don't get me started on AOL :)
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Re: Did you expect that you'll use Linux?!

Post by majpooper »

I can remember whining about Windows 7 somewhere around 2010 a friend of a friend I met briefly socially who was an IT guy started telling be about linux - he liked Suse. I was pretty sure that there was no way that I could even do the sorts of stuff he was talking about - dual boot ?????? or install a brand new OS on my PC .. . . no that was waaaay above my skill set. Then I saw the local community College that used SuSe to teach linux so I signed up. That was it I installed SuSe and struggled with it but learned quite a bit but did the dual boot thing for a long time - playing with linux but still tethered to Windows and hating it. As time went on someone else told me about Ubuntu and how user friendly that was. I found Ubuntu much easier than SuSe for sure but was still not totally won over and still hating Windows (by now it was Windows 8). Then at a wedding reception a banking security guy I met told me about linux Mint - I went home installed it an that was it - for about a year or so I went wild - setting up RAID, using a VM to run a few Windows apps, tweaking it and breaking it until I finally settled down and I am 100% linux Mint.

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Re: Did you expect that you'll use Linux?!

Post by pascal111 »

I think one of reasons that make us feel that it's not possible to change our OS is tasks that we're familiar with in our current OS, I wrote before a book, at that time I was using Windows and I've no good idea about making ebooks, since about three days I finished my new book and published it in "LDS Freedom Forum" and I posted this in my topic of my book in "Gospel Discussion" section:
Thanks for LibreOffice that comes free with Linux Mint, I didn't expect that I can do my book that easy.
I never expected that I can do my book that easy, LibreOffice writer made my book in one step with no any complexity, I just wrote my book and converted it directly into PDF.
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Re: Did you expect that you'll use Linux?!

Post by Portreve »

Speaking of books...

A friend of mine who lives in Germany has been slowly dipping her toe into professional authorship, mostly in the science fiction realm. She and I used LO Writer when I was copy editing the English version of her first book, and I was using LM full time by that point as well.
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Re: Did you expect that you'll use Linux?!

Post by Bobb24 »

I was getting pretty familiar with Windows 7. Then I bought a laptop with Windows 8 . I hated it. Upgraded to 8.1 . Same thing.Hardly used it for a few years until I found a broken laptop and then I had a spare hard drive to play with and that was the catalyst as I didn't want to mess with my Win 7 desktop but I couldn't care less about my laptop because it was useless. First I installed Win 7 on spare laptop drive and it was great and then I installed Mint 17.1 as dual boot and all of a sudden I had a computer that was spectacular. No longer had issues connecting to internet , which had been a problem with Win 7 and 8. Got the hang of Thunderbirdl and was already using Firefox in Windows.
Pretty soon I stopped booting to Windows , didn't need to. And when I did , it needed to spend lots of time doing security updates and I had to monitor the reboots since it was now a dual boot system so I had to make sure I rebooted to Windows and watch the 33%,66% etc update process. After awhile I found I could do anything I was doing easier on Mint.
Now I started experimenting with desktop as hard drives were easier to come by. Made a dual boot system and again I no longer used Win 7 drive.
Also important to mention that laptop trackpad and scrolling never worked properly on Windows so I used wireless keyboard and mouse from day 2 . When I installed Linux systems it only worked properly on Cinnamon which was great but my preference was Mate so I came to the forums for help and you taught me how to switch input drivers ( what the hell are they ? ) and now my Mate 18.3 is MINT. I had to install Mint on my Windows PC to get my laptop to work properly !
Thanks to all , by the way

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Re: Did you expect that you'll use Linux?!

Post by RollyShed »

Did you expect that you'd use Linux?
Sort-of.....

When I was working the firm used and provided Windows free, that's what I used though one of our group used Linux and I poked at it a little bit - Puppy, Redhat, Susie. After I retired and on a visit to my brother in Australia, he let me take his magazine CDs home and on one was Mint 14. A year after installing it I realised I'd booted the Windows XP machine a couple of times so it would be better to move the Mint HD across to the faster computer.

Mint 14 and then 17 on to an SSD and another donated computer lying in the shed/workshop which was, surprisingly, much faster. The every-day machine (this desktop one running 2 screens) had an update to Mint 18 a week ago after updating a friend's laptop that I done an install on.

That laptop computer, a year or two ago on a trip up north I'd dropped in for lunch and left him with a fresh Mint install, me with a cup of coffee and all with only about a 1/2 hour delay to the trip.

Our travelling computer (take it with us round the world), an eeMachines Netbook was usually run from a Mint stick for security but got an SSD and Mint a year or so ago.

My partner's Win10 got wiped last year by Micro$oft's October update and a Linux installation was already in it waiting to be used. Fortunately all the data was saved on to the Linux disk before it was completely destroyed on the Windows disk.

Our Men's Shed - a number of members of it are running Linux Mint. Donated computers (6+) came with no software which is very good and the Shed has had internet for 4 years so it is obvious everything runs Linux Mint. A year ago 8 donated laptops and 2 desktops got Linux Mint 18 and are used by members for themselves or odd jobs. Another 10 computers were donated a few weeks ago and all now have Linux Mint 19.

As for members having to use Mint at the Shed, no problems, they simply sit down and do the job needed - search the web, write a document, do a spreadsheet, the only difference being it is so much easier than having to use an unfamiliar Windows machine.

Looking at that it must be near 30 computers I've installed Mint on in the last few years.

Programmes - OpenOffice for a decade or more until it was changed to LibreOffice. I will admit to using irFanView, for picture viewing, which is written for Windows but runs happily under WINE. Otherwise just about all the programmes used work on any type of computer.

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Re: Did you expect that you'll use Linux?!

Post by Pepi »

I prayed for the day of retirement to get away from Windows servers :mrgreen:

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Re: Did you expect that you'll use Linux?!

Post by DisturbedDragon »

Well, going to show my age with this one. Started out using Mandrake Move to recover files from crashed out Windows systems many moons ago in a galaxy far, far away. This hooked me into Linux where I started experimenting with Ubuntu, Debian, Knoppix and anything else I could get my hands on. Started pen-testing with Backtrack and eventually found Mint somewhere around version 9 if memory serves. I have used Mint almost exclusively on all my desktops/laptops save a Chromebook here and there running Gallium. All my servers are Ubuntu Server, but in any case all are Linux. One desktop has a Windows partition for running games not native to Linux that also will not run properly with Proton.

I was absolutely never a fan of any version of Windows. Recent progressions (regressions?) have made me less so. I cannot fathom not using Linux.
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Re: Did you expect that you'll use Linux?!

Post by Metuka »

Not really, no.

Years ago, when I was all doe-eyed, I was with this [beep] dude who wanted to appear all badass and tech-savvy and didn't stop until he installed dual-boot Ubuntu along with Windows on my laptop. Pointless. I didn't care about it and got rid of it as soon as the relationship was over. I didn't see the point in keeping it, I was fairly content with Windows because I don't do anything super special on my computer and nobody I know is into computers that much anyway. They're a means to something else, that's all.

Then, more recently, I started working in an environment where a very specific, watered-down, extremely user-friendly Linux distro is used. The way things have been, I've got to become more familiar with it, learned to do tiny things on my own, kinda stopped seeing the whole environment as something really complex that required a set of skills I didn't possess or wasn't super interested in developing, and started seeing it as a viable alternative.

Another contributing factor was that there's this notebook at my house. It was running on Windows XP or Vista, I can't recall, but it was so frustratingly slow it was almost unusable. For no apparent reason, Google Discovery decided I could use some info on Zorin Lite and I said to myself "why not?". I gave it a try, but it wasn't a good match. It would freeze all the time and I couldn't make it work, so I switched to plan B: Mint, Xcfe flavor. The reason I didn't chose it first is in theory the requirements are higher, but it works like a charm.

Then, there's the laptop I'm currently using. It's not very old, but it tended to act all glitchy and misbehave. I even suspected some kind of virus, but I couldn't quite pinpoint it. Remember, I'm no expert, just a slightly-above-average user. I was considering getting a new computer for Black Friday, but chose to try Mint as a last-ditch effort before getting rid of it. Good God, I should have done it so long ago!

My intention now is to keep my laptop, which runs so smoothly sometimes it's scary, for a few more years because I don't need a luxury computer, just something that works acceptably. When it dies or I replace it, I've decided I don't want to go back to Windows. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate it even though I can see why so many Linux users despise it. Still, I like what I have now much better and I'm starting to have fun with the array of possibilities even a noob like me has.
Last edited by Metuka on Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Did you expect that you'll use Linux?!

Post by AZgl1500 »

I have been a Windoze IT support person since 3.0 was released.... yuck!

I tried Unix/Linux over the years, but the Learning Curve was soooo damn steep, that I just gave it up in disgust.

I tried all of the Windows look alike Linux distros, and none of them satisfied me, the apps weren't ready yet, the Desktops weren't ready yet....

somewhere around Mint 17.2 IIRC, I noticed that there is now a distro called Cinnamon.
stuck that on an old Dell laptop and the hammer hit the nail, and I have never looked back.

I still have a Win7 Desktop that can't be retired, but that's okay.... it just sits there until it is needed once in a while.

I upgraded to 17.3 Cinnamon, and left 18.1 and 18.3 alone.. I just simply do NOT want to fuss with a problematic OS.... then 18.3 Cinnamon was released and I was in love again..... I did not think I would ever get away from that.....

I watched 19.1 and all the problems it had, I talked loudly to all my friends that 19.x would never, ever, be as good as 18.3 Cinnamon... I just was not going to even look at it... the forum here was full of 19.1 / 19.2 problems.... so I stayed away.

then I bought a new ASUS TUF Gaming laptop, the BIOS was only 2 months old when I opened the box.
I cried for 14 months because it would NOT allow any distro, from anyone, in any flavor to install, period.
Never could even get it up to a Live Session.

then 19.3 beta was released, and I downloaded that and WTH??? it came up to Live Session and installed w/o a whimper.... not only that, 19.3 beta found both of my network printers and installed them before I even realized they were ready to go.

I am won over, I will never leave.
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Re: Did you expect that you'll use Linux?!

Post by jglen490 »

I started out with Windows 3.1, which was O.K., but I liked to play and since Win 3.1 still had a robust DOS prompt facility I made my own menus and actually wrote a replacement windowing system. It worked pretty well, so I gave it to the local elementary school since they had a bunch of donated PCs with different MS levels, and - at the time - no IT budget. It got them through. Then Windows 95 and 98 came along, and I was tired of paying the MS upgrade licensing fee, so a friend recommended Slackware and gave me the gajillion floppy disks it took to load it. So I dual booted on the machine my wife was using. It was fine, but the complete lack (at the time) of a GUI was no fun. So I found a copy of Redhat 5.2 (from way before the RHEL days) in a Thrift shop. It was a beautiful thing! And so I replaced that awful Slackware with Redhat (still dual booted on wife's machine) and started enjoying the Linux life.

Eventually, I bought a (used) laptop for me, and let the spousal unit keep her own computer - sans dual boot. I moved on through the usual Mandrake, various BSDs (some of which were fun!), and eventually found my way to Kubuntu 6. I stayed with Kubuntu up to the current day with Kubuntu 18.04 LTS and using various home-built PCs and also getting other laptops along the way - as playground platforms. My current desktop unit has Kubuntu (waiting on 20.04 LTS) and my Toshiba laptop is running Mint 19.1. Wife still has a Windows machine - she's happy, so I am, too :wink: Her computing demands are not egregious and our income is much better these days, so one Windows License is O.K. - and did I say the wife is happy? Happy wife, happy life. And I'm lovin' the Linux universe, and have over the past 25+ years.
I feel more like I do than I did when I got here.
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Re: Did you expect that you'll use Linux?!

Post by absque fenestris »

Did you expect that you'd use Linux?
When I was faced with the question of which System it should be - about 1993, I had successfully worked with AutoCAD under DOS, and with a lot of trouble with PageMaker under Windows.
The question was posed by Macintosh, Amiga, Atari and RiscOS from Acorn. When it came to shopping, Amiga and Atari were bankrupt and the nice gentleman from Acorn couldn't give me any information about delivery to Switzerland or the price. Ah yes! and NextStep would still have been in the game, but not my wallet... Interestingly, no device with Intel processors was available for closer selection, which would have interested me.
Linux was still a minor at the time.
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Re: Did you expect that you'll use Linux?!

Post by smurphos »

absque fenestris wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 1:17 pm
about 1993
....
Linux was still a minor at the time.
A bit less than a minor I think - the kernel hadn't even hit version 1 in 1993, and the choice of linux distros was exceptionally limited - the familiar :wink: names Softlanding Linux System, Manchester Computing Centre Linux and Yggdrasil were your choices at the start of 1993. By the end of the year Slackware was available, and the first Debian public release was very early in 1994.
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Re: Did you expect that you'll use Linux?!

Post by Swampthing »

No. Not really.
I started using DOS and Windows 3.1, which was fine and only really for gaming.
Then went on to Win95, which was also fine for me.
Then I started studying Computer Science and I chose a (optional) class about Linux, which was interesting. It was all about Red Hat, but at the time in 1999/2000's I couldnt see myself using it as a daily driver, it was too much of a hassle for me.
Fast forward through Win NT, Win2000, Win ME, Win XP and Vista.
I stayed with XP, to me it was a pretty and fairly stable OS, I still have fond memories of XP.
Then my PC died, ripped the hard drives out and gave the rest away.
Later I was given a laptop with Windows 10, which I really didn't like, something was off, too slow and bloated.
Then came all the info about the spying and so on.
So I didn't use it that much.
Later I bought an iMac, which I still like and still use.
Dual booting with Win10, Windows is only for gaming nothing else.
Anyway, by using the iMac and reading articles and watching youtube I learned about Linux Mint and tried it on my laptop.
After a while I wiped Windows from the laptop and its now a pure Linux machine, and I use it more and more as I gain confidence in using LM.
Right now I also use LM in virtual boxes on the iMac, so I keep forcing myself using LM. So when the time comes that the iMac is no longer supported it can be loaded with LM as well.

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Re: Did you expect that you'll use Linux?!

Post by treehouse »

I'm sorry to say I'm still struggling to make the switch, but trying again now as Win7 approaches sunset (although I'm reliably informed it'll limp on for years if I'm careful). I can't accept the insult of forced downgrading to Win10, so trying again to get Linux to do what I'd like it to. My wishes are probably unusual, so I don't blame the OS, and I'm sure it can do what I want, it's just a lot of learning away yet. Sometimes it feels like it's just too far away.

I've got Linux Mint 17.1 (I think) on this laptop, but still using Win7 normally. I'm picky about how everything works, so I like to write programs that do stuff the way I want it. On Windows, I found AutoHotkey (AHK) immensely powerful for that. I've got a bunch of text replacement strings and hotkeys running that save loads of typing, but then I went on to write full programs to replace some of the apps that don't work how I want. I've got a clock-calendar program and a backup program, to name two I'd not want to be without. If AHK worked on Linux, I'd not be here moaning. ;)

There's AutoKey, but that seems poorly supported, and has so little help it's nigh impossible (even debugging a script, as the only error message seems to be "An error occurred" - have you ever felt like a monkey with a typewriter?). There's Actiona(z), but that seems to have been abandoned too. And then there's a whole host of proper, well-documented, mature languages, which can probably do what I want once I learn them.

Python, of course, kept coming up and, on the whole, I like the syntax, so I'm currently learning that. I played with PythonAnywhere, which is nice if you don't want to install an IDE, and now I've just installed IDLE (looks very promising - I tried Eric, but it complained there weren't the required SQL drivers or something, and it looks too complicated for my needs). Whether I'll actually ever learn enough Python to write things like I do in AHK remains to be seen. This is my third attempt, and I still haven't come across any mention of how to write a GUI window, or anything that doesn't just print the result of a function in a console window.

I guess I'll have to find something. Win10 is the final attempt to turn us into borg drones, and I'm not having it.

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Re: Did you expect that you'll use Linux?!

Post by AZgl1500 »

Thumbs down on Win10 for sure, I am right there with you.

I have Win7 on my Gateway Desktop, and it will remain Win7 for another decade at a minimum and won't ever fail me.

Have a friend running his business accounts on WinXP, says why change, it ain't broke, so don't be going to fix it.

Neither he, nor myself surf the bad websites, we never get trash or viruses on our machines.
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Re: Did you expect that you'll use Linux?!

Post by treehouse »

And now I've changed my mind. It is with enormous regret and frustration that I leave the world of Linux for as long as possible, unless something significant changes. Maybe there are other alternative OSs that might suit me better, or maybe I have to accept that I'm stuck with the proprietary nature of Windows. At some point you have to just give in. I fear there will be readers who have had smoother rides with Linux, or are currently having a smoother ride. Some will be happy that their machines allow them - after a bit of fiddling about maybe - to surf and get their mail, write documents and play a few games, and there will be users who are brighter than me, or nerdier or happier to dig and read and problem-solve, who use Linux for more advanced things. Maybe I've just been unlucky this time...again.

And that's the point - "again". There will be readers saying, "Well just say what the problem is and get help to fix it," but that is all I seem to do (in trying to reach the slightly more advanced position of being able to write programs to run on my Linux machine). I hit some 'problem' - just something I don't understand, usually, not often an actual bug, AFAIK - so I search for solutions, and that leads me to some other area of the dark arts, so I spend another week reading and trying to get that to work, whereupon I hit another problem, another system dependency or desktop environment limitation I have to get around, or another API/language I have to get my head around.

Specifically, trying to get AutoKey to work led me to try to learn Python. If I learned that, I thought, maybe I could figure out the problems with my AutoKey scripts. I did, in fact, find a bit more instruction on the syntax for those, and a menu item for reporting more detail than "There was an error," but none of the fixes I tried worked. So I try Python online at PythonAnywhere, and I rather like it. I install Eric, but it reports some missing driver. I spend another half an hour trying to figure out how I install drivers, but already recognise that Eric is probably way too complicated than I need or would suit my skill level, so maybe another IDE. I try IDLE - looks much more like it. Great stuff, I'm on my way! Finally.

Then I try some examples from websites, creating a simple GUI, and discover that I can't get tkinter to work. I follow the syntax rules, digging into the .py files for clues, I try different ideas, but no, I keep getting errors. I thought my grasp of Python was up to figuring that out, but it seems it's maybe not Python. Tkinter isn't Python, it's Tc/Tcl (or something - don't ask) - so here we go again, on a wild goose chase trying to understand Tcl to figure out why my button won't run the command block it's programmed with. I'm not a noob programmer, by the way, I've been programming for 40 years. Since all these bits of code are co-dependent (like alcoholics), I'm also trying to figure out if I've got the wrong version of Python for the IDE, and I try installing different Python versions. Since I'm not clear on all the packages I can see in the manager, it's a bit hit-and-miss doing that. Everything I read introduces me to a new bit of jargon! This is the installer for the PCQ version of Yammy. If you haven't got Spidge yet, download it from the Spidge-to-go site, but make sure you install the dependencies first and get the version for your chipset or Bastion might throw an exception and then you've really screwed your Linux install.

The difference on Windows is absolutely stunning. About 20 years ago (or more?) I found something called MacroAngel, which allowed me the first bit of system-wide automation of Windows. About ten years ago, I looked for BASICs I could use on Windows, and found BBC BASIC For Windows, which ran fine, and there's now an SDL version for cross-platform programming. I used to write programs in BBC BASIC, so it was like coming home. But it only knows its own scope and I wanted something that could respond when other windows opened or other events happened outside BBC. I then hit on AutoHotkey, which does all of it. And, while I hit problems - you're bound to - there were generally simple fixes. There are also another two flavours of BASIC I use, reasonably easy to set up, in early development but being rapidly developed, one that allows me to write programs on my laptop and fire them up on my Android phone accross the network. I spend the odd few minutes getting help fixing the code, not learning how the thing works under the hood so I can fix the interpreter. I report those errors and the author fixes them, thanking me for the help.

At the end of the day, Windows, for all its faults, is written by an 'organisation' (the clue is in the name), and its updates and fixes are rolled out as a, mostly debugged, whole unit, and the underlying architecture isn't endlessly being re-written in 100 different flavours. Linux reminds me of the old joke about the camel - a horse designed by a committee. There are so many different groups and individuals working on different packages, all the bits and pieces are being updated at different times, so whether you can get something to work or not depends on which distro you're running, with which desktop, and - apparently - a bunch of other things. All that somehow comes together (through the hard work and dedication of those people, I appreciate) to make a system work, on the whole, for most installs, doing what most people do, with just a few days of research and fixing the odd glitch here and there with help from the forums. Try to find something beyond that and, at the moment, it looks like you're in for degree-level learning. You're gonna have to be pretty full-time. I think I've screwed my Mint installation on this now, trying different versions of Python and IDEs. I'm getting no updates for months. Ah well, never mind. It's only a few months of my life I'll not get back.

Your mileage may differ.
\rant.

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Re: Did you expect that you'll use Linux?!

Post by treehouse »

Oh ok, on the plus side, CherryTree just updated through the Update Manager, reporting that there were two broken packages needed removing and two new ones installing. Something to do with python-gtk (I wasn't in the mood to take too much notice). Maybe it's fixing things I broke.

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Re: Did you expect that you'll use Linux?!

Post by deepakdeshp »

treehouse wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:24 am
Oh ok, on the plus side, CherryTree just updated through the Update Manager, reporting that there were two broken packages needed removing and two new ones installing. Something to do with python-gtk (I wasn't in the mood to take too much notice). Maybe it's fixing things I broke.
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Re: Did you expect that you'll use Linux?!

Post by treehouse »

deepakdeshp wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:26 pm
treehouse wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:24 am
Oh ok, on the plus side, CherryTree just updated through the Update Manager, reporting that there were two broken packages needed removing and two new ones installing. Something to do with python-gtk (I wasn't in the mood to take too much notice). Maybe it's fixing things I broke.
Linux is ideal for developers. https://www.slant.co/topics/3862/~best- ... -developer
Yes, it seems so. But 'developer' is a particular kind of programmer, generally a professional or someone looking towards being a professional in the software industry. I'm a different kind of programmer, mostly concerned with doing 'deeper' things on the machine I'm running, with the OS it's got, and my experience (of just Windows up to 7 and Linux Mint) is that there are a bunch of programs for writing scripts and different languages to use on Windows, that you can just download (most for free) and start using, taking control of your machine, automating stuff or writing whole suites of useful programs if you wish, and mostly the learning curve relates to putting the right code together. This is a somewhat shallow view, rather than learning every bit of what the thing's doing under the hood, but it's horses for courses. Try doing that on Linux and - correct me if I'm wrong - you have a couple of hardly-supported (even discontinued) GUI-based trigger-script apps (AutoKey and Actiona - the latter's website doesn't even exist). Of course, if you want to learn Python, or maybe other languages, and how the whole OS works, which packages and modules you need to find, download, install, import into your scripts, etc., you'll be able to do virtually anything on Linux eventually, if you have the time and patience and your hardware supports the drivers, etc.

I think it's rather sad that the world of computer-users is so starkly divided between people who prod buttons and get a tech guy in for everything else, and 'developers' (and that people think you're either one or the other). People who like to just play about with code and get their machines to do clever stuff themselves - like personal computers were in the old days - aren't much catered for these days, but they are catered for much more on Windows than anything else I know of. And, since Windows is by far the most popular OS for users, there are lots of developers writing software for it, and an enormous ecosystem for development of that software. I don't much care if some of the developers write their code on Linux or an emulation of COBOL. They write Windows programs that just work out of the box without me having a PhD in computer science. And then I spend my time a) getting my machine to do what I want to do instead of what Microsoft thinks I should do with it, and b) learning a great deal about coding in the languages I'm writing those programs in.

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