A disgruntled windows user ranting on overly complicated Linux

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SecretAjennMan
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A disgruntled windows user ranting on overly complicated Linux

Post by SecretAjennMan »

I am a current disgruntled windows user who cannot stand Windows 10. I've been using computers since the mid 80's. But every time I look into installing Linux, I see nightmarish, difficult, complicated instructions. Linux Mint is promoted as "so easy your Grandma can use it." Unless Grandma writes code, I doubt seriously that she could do this. Granted, Linux uses code that Grandma probably routinely used back in the 80's.

Terminal window deniers make videos stating that you never have to use command line strings or terminals to use the platform. YET every single issue that people go online to get answers for or help with on Linux forums, the answers invariably start with "Open a terminal, then type in the string below...."

You can't even deliver an install package without the user having to do all the crap in this page. You are so immersed in your own little world, you have no idea what you are up against on the outside world. In a couple of clicks, I can download and install Windows. Solutions don't require me knowing and using code strings typed into a command line interface, or jumping through such complicated check sum hoops that your own people can't do it.

You are living in the past. I started out on computers with machines that ran on programs (ALL in code) kept on big floppy discs..... and doing anything required typing strings of code into a command window. Linux is on a par with DOS. Lipstick on a pig.

THIS page of instructions RIGHT HERE "to verify the authenticity" of an installation download, is a perfect example. Let's just skip right over why one would have to do that in the first place, in this day of encrypted servers and 10-32 digit login passwords just to get into a forum, all for an OS that is supposed to be fairly safe from hackers and viruses. If you're having to do all this verification, that should tell you something.... I'm terribly sorry if you don't like my opinion, but this is one of the most incredibly complicated sets of instructions I've ever seen to do a check sum test to install an operating system, and BTW, I build computers.

Linux gains its safety and therefore use in the market by IT professionals attempting to run secure operations, because it's too complicated to use so most "civilian" users don't use it. THAT is the only thing that gives it some safety from hackers with viruses and ransomware. But increasingly, the hackers are seeing where the real money is, and are targeting commercial servers and systems, so Linux isn't as safe as it was.

But THIS RIGHT HERE is exactly why so many people RUN from Linux. You over-complicate everything. You offer no convenience or even modern operation. If everything that a user needs in the way of help starts with a terminal, and typing in code strings, you DO in fact have to use them to operate the OS. Linux needs to evolve to a GUI controlled OS, and leave the code in the background, because the users aren't interested in dealing with it. Precisely why Windows is still the world leader over you, despite being awful.

I think you like it because it makes you feel sophisticated. Commercial pilots used to use waypoint navigation with radio beacons, maps, plastic flight computers and old analogue instruments to navigate too. They flew planes into mountains routinely.
Last edited by karlchen on Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Split off from tutorial, https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=291093. Tutorials are no place for your rants
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Kadaitcha Man
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Re: A disgruntled windows user ranting on overly complicated Linux

Post by Kadaitcha Man »

SecretAjennMan wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:25 pm
Linux Mint is promoted as "so easy your Grandma can use it."
Really? By whom? Link, please.
SecretAjennMan wrote:Terminal window deniers make videos stating that you never have to use command line strings or terminals to use the platform. YET every single issue that people go online to get answers for or help with on Linux forums, the answers invariably start with "Open a terminal, then type in the string below...."
Why are you ranting at other linux users? This is a community forum, and everyone here is a linux user who volunteers their free time. It is interesting to note that you've never asked for assistance.

To answer that particular part of your rant, we are volunteers, and there are a lot of people asking for help. 99 times out of 100, a command line isn't necessary but for those of us who offer help, our experience makes the command line much quicker. You don't need to understand the command, you only need to know how to copy and paste. You do know how to do that, right?
It's pronounced kad-eye-cha, not kada-itcha.
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Re: A disgruntled windows user ranting on overly complicated Linux

Post by Neil Edmond »

Meh... it's just what one is used to. I've been using Linux for a few years now, but still use Windows at work. And to me, because I'm used to Linux and spend more time with it that Windows, I find Windows to be overly complicated compared to what I'm used to.
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Re: A disgruntled windows user ranting on overly complicated Linux

Post by lsemmens »

What is easier to do if you don't know fred or his girlfried:
a) go to freds place and find his girlfriend's bedroom - Windows speak
or b) go to 48 Smith St Atown and enter room numbered 48

It's certainly much easier and more accurate to direct a novice to copy a specific command into a terminal than to say "go here, click on that, open this and drag that".

As for installation and setup, 'tis no different to windows on that front, in fact, it's a lot quicker than windows. The only problem that novices have is that it gives you a few choices rather than making them for you and you then have to fix stuff that you didn't want.
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Schultz
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Re: A disgruntled windows user ranting on overly complicated Linux

Post by Schultz »

SecretAjennMan wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:25 pm
I am a current disgruntled windows user who cannot stand Windows 10. I've been using computers since the mid 80's.
I only started using computers in the year 2000, and I found the switch over to Linux Mint fairly painless, and I was (and still am) by no means a technical expert. I really don't know why you're finding it so difficult.

With that being said, I don't know why I posted here because I'd be really surprised if the OP ever comes back to this thread.
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Re: A disgruntled windows user ranting on overly complicated Linux

Post by all41 »

Some folks are happier in jail
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Re: A disgruntled windows user ranting on overly complicated Linux

Post by Portreve »

Sorry folks, I've been kind of busy today IRL, otherwise I would have seen this thread in time to be the first to respond.
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Re: A disgruntled windows user ranting on overly complicated Linux

Post by deck_luck »

How much is Microsoft paying their shills to get on Linux forums and post rants.
It is like trying to argue with a drunk, so I would not waste my time with any further reply.

Conversely, if an enthusiastic computer user wants to act civil and approach Linux with an open mind, by all means you should try it. The Linux Mint forum is a good place to discuss problems you might encounter. New eager Linux users are always welcome. :wink:
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Re: A disgruntled windows user ranting on overly complicated Linux

Post by carum carvi »

Honestly, merely 2 hours ago (without having read this current post) I was pondering if I should write a new post on this forum about LinuxMint being the most user friendly Linux OS. But I didnt do it, because I thought it could come across like bragging... but I honestly do think LinuxMint is the most user friendly Linux OS out there and I have tried quite a few Linux OS'es...

I think this rant of the original poster could be useful (whether it comes from a genuine user or from a troll), because user friendliness is one of the biggest positive characteristics of LinuxMInt in my experience. But there is always room for improvement. So thank you for ranting!

The only thing I can think of which still could be done a little bit better with LinuxMint is the install options. When one selects to choose to do a manual install, it suddenly does become very difficult for Windows users. Phrases like ext4, boot, root did confuse me terribly when I was a newbie, but those manual install options in LinuxMint sometimes still freak me out! I have seen another example of manual install in KDE Manjaro, which was much more user friendly than in LinuxMint. Another thing which migt (potentially) throw of new LinuxMint users is a lack of a more detailed guide for newbies, who can feel lost in trying to understand the new Linux world.

Ranting, honest ranting is a good thing I think, because it tells me someone is really WANTING to use Linux instead of Windows, but simply is not succeeding yet. I, for one, would love to see that LinuxMInt would become more widely known for it's user friendliness amongst the Window users who are fed up with Windows...

So welcome to the LinuxMint forum SecretAjennman, your input is appreciated...by me personally at least...although your complaint about having to use the terminal simply doesnt ring true, because in my early years as a newbie I have never had to use a terminal whatsoever... :D
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Re: A disgruntled windows user ranting on overly complicated Linux

Post by RollyShed »

SecretAjennMan wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:25 pm
I am a current disgruntled windows user who cannot stand Windows 10. I've been using computers since the mid 80's.
So? It should be easy then.
But every time I look into installing Linux, I see nightmarish, difficult, complicated instructions.
Where are the complicated instructions? I haven't found anything easier, quicker and more reliable. With a reasonably quick computer, a complete install ready to go in 10 minutes. An old computer, 15 minutes.

How long with Win10? An hour or 3 or maybe a day or so. And yes I've seen the Windows problems, file corruption, deleting things it shouldn't, not loading itself. You name it and Windows does it the wrong way.

I presume you want to use .exe to install programmes? OK, with Linux Mint you use .deb with just about the same number of key strokes or fewer key strokes.
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Re: A disgruntled windows user ranting on overly complicated Linux

Post by cliffcoggin »

If we ignore all the exaggeration, all the hyperbole, and all the plain lies in the rant, there is still a tiny kernel of truth in what the OP says. Linux Mint is not as straightforward to install as many here like to believe, and I presume the same applies to any Linux system. It's easy to forget how many hurdles have to be jumped even before installation can start for somebody who has never done it before.

Consider the number of questions on the forum about downloading, verifying, and burning an ISO to USB. Consider too the difficulties people have in accessing and setting the BIOS correctly so that installation can begin. Neither of those are the fault or the responsibility of Mint, nor can Mint do anything about them, because that's the way computers work, but they are intimidating problems which can predispose newcomers to believe all the negative stories, and then dismiss Linux as complicated.

I am not agreeing with the overall thrust of his argument, nor am I condoning the rant, but I do sympathise with his frustration.
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detimo
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Re: A disgruntled windows user ranting on overly complicated Linux

Post by detimo »

RollyShed wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:15 am
SecretAjennMan wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:25 pm
I am a current disgruntled windows user who cannot stand Windows 10. I've been using computers since the mid 80's.
So? It should be easy then.
Not op, but Windows is rather complicated. Everything must be configured in some kind of GUI that's hidden somewhere. You keep clicking through configuration panel, device manager and other kinds of windows. They seem to change that each version of windows. You can't just open a terminal and edit the config file :)
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Re: A disgruntled windows user ranting on overly complicated Linux

Post by Portreve »

Maybe we should go on Microsoft's forums and post irrational rants about Windows being too complicated, buggy, virus-infested, and un-peer-reviewable to use.

Oh, wait... :wink:
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Re: A disgruntled windows user ranting on overly complicated Linux

Post by iain_33 »

Meh, no-one's making you use it. If you don't like it, don't use it.

I've never had to use the terminal in the 2 years I've used Mint, but as I've learned the system I've found it quicker to do some things that way. There's nothing forcing me to use an arcane command line. And certainly for giving help in a forum, it's far easier (and more reliable) to give someone a line or two to copy & paste in the terminal than to guide someone through a GUI - "click here, right click there, do this, then click this..."

As far as checksums, I think it's foolish to download and install an OS, or maybe any software, without checking its integrity. Don't MS have any way of checking a download of Windows?
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Re: A disgruntled windows user ranting on overly complicated Linux

Post by Mick-Cork »

I think there are those who like package cruise holidays, fixed itinerary, fixed menu, pre-determined destinations, herds to keep them company, and a captain that makes the decisions. Then there are those who like to chart their own vessel, go where they like, eat when they like, steer their own course, moor up as pleases them, and take pleasure from their achievements.

LM is my Sunseeker :)
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Re: A disgruntled windows user ranting on overly complicated Linux

Post by detimo »

iain_33 wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:30 am
Meh, no-one's making you use it. If you don't like it, don't use it.
In corporate environment don't really have a choice. Last time I used Windows it was quite annoying, the gui just seems off. Then those updates when you're just heading home and you'll have to wait until it finishes the update. Prefer Linux :)
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Re: A disgruntled windows user ranting on overly complicated Linux

Post by redx87 »

I'm not a granny, I'm a grandpa getting fairly long in the tooth, but I don't have any problems running my Linux mint. It wasn't too complicated to install myself, runs beautifully and I love it. Best of all it's free, and no matter how much this troll wants to rant he can't say that about Windows.
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Re: A disgruntled windows user ranting on overly complicated Linux

Post by lsemmens »

cliffcoggin wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:09 am
.....................................
Consider the number of questions on the forum about downloading, verifying, and burning an ISO to USB. Consider too the difficulties people have in accessing and setting the BIOS correctly so that installation can begin. ......................
There is one minor problem with your argument there. Systems are configured in the factory for wingewoes, so, of course, there will be no need to muck around with BIOS and such. As for downloading, burning, and verification, again, systems are configured in the the factory to make your own copy of wingewoes so, often, the image is already on the computer. 99% of wingewoes users will not even know how to make a factory image, let alone verify it. The only real difference here is that M$ doesn't give a stuff about those users because when it breaks, and it will, they'll just go out and buy a new computer. With Linux, firstly, finding a box already configured with Linux is difficult. Secondly, the average noddy, wouldn't know that it is better than wingewoes, so will disregard it out of hand. Thirdly if the M$ product had to be downloaded and set up the same way that Linux is, we'd have exactly the same problems. As you have stated
cliffcoggin wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:09 am
.....................................
Neither of those are the fault or the responsibility of Mint,......................
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Re: A disgruntled windows user ranting on overly complicated Linux

Post by cliffcoggin »

lsemmens wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:38 pm

There is one minor problem with your argument there. Systems are configured in the factory for wingewoes, so, of course, there will be no need to muck around with BIOS and such. As for downloading, burning, and verification, again, systems are configured in the the factory to make your own copy of wingewoes so, often, the image is already on the computer. 99% of wingewoes users will not even know how to make a factory image, let alone verify it. The only real difference here is that M$ doesn't give a stuff about those users because when it breaks, and it will, they'll just go out and buy a new computer.
Yes of course, and that is precisely my point. Nobody has to mess around with the computer to have Windows on it, yet to get Linux one has to alter incomprehensible settings that most people are not aware of. When that goes wrong, as it does so often, it is Linux that unfairly gets the blame.
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Re: A disgruntled windows user ranting on overly complicated Linux

Post by AZgl1500 »

Okay,
was prepared to show how simple it was to install LM20 this morning, but why bother?

the OP is a TROLL, pure and simple.

he has NOT returned period.

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