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Re: Windows to become emulation layer for Linux?

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:36 am
by AZgl1500
Portreve wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:27 am
... snip...

If I didn't have a need to deal professionally with Windows, I wouldn't waste my time on it.

There's only two reasons I can see why people use Windows at this point: ignorance, or as a system requirement for one or more programs they have to use.
My current laptop has two SSDs on it.
the OEM is Win10 and it is up todate as of 4 weeks ago.

Why? my Achilles heel is TurboTax and a big loss I am having to depreciate over many years.
I keep all of my tax files Off The Grid, they only see a temporary passage from my PC to the IRS via eFile.

Once that loss number is gone, bye bye Windows forever.
at that point in time, I could use a pencil to figure my taxes, How much did you earn?
okay, Send it all to Uncle Sam, thank you

.

Re: Linux will decimate Windows desktop?

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:22 am
by Portreve
With all the cozying up to GNU+Linux over the last several years and their increasing tendency towards embedding aspects of it in Windows, my suspicion is they will probably replace the NT kernel with a highly patched version of Linux. Whether they also build the rest of the GNU toolkit and such things into Windows, I don't know.

It would be interesting to see Microsoft get embraced and extended by us.

Re: Linux will decimate Windows desktop?

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:28 am
by Pierre
that article, by Eric Raymond,
- is currently being heavily promoted, in various Tech circles.

the main point of that article, is that the Windows Kernel is getting obsolete,
and that it should be replaced by the Linux Kernel .. potentially Linux Kernel V7 . .

the chances of this happening, are somewhere between slim and none.
:lol:

Re: Linux will decimate Windows desktop?

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:29 am
by exploder
Also I don't see Microsoft abandoning decades of NT kernel work and switching to linux any time soon for Windows.
You make an interesting point! In my opinion the thing hurting Microsoft is that they tend to not embrace change. Has Windows really changed that much over the years? Windows still has it's registry, same tools more or less, even the device manager is still the same. They keep improving the user interface, well, after windows 8 was very unpopular.

Windows 95 was a big win for Microsoft, there is no denying that. Yes, it was buggy but it was a new way of doing things and people really liked it. Windows 2000 was in my opinion pretty good too. Plug and play NT was a step in the right direction.

What have they really done since then? Windows phones were a failure. Microsoft lost the browser war, they are basing their browser on Chromium now. They are developing cross platform applications and web based subscription apps that run under other platforms.

Microsoft still has directx for gaming, it's been around for decades so they still dominate when it comes to high end games. Steam has put a small dent in that market for Linux but an avid gamer expects more.

More and more hardware vendor's are offering Linux systems, that tells me that Microsoft is loosing it stranglehold on OEM's. We have heard about the year of the Linux desktop for a long time. For people like us it arrived long ago. Microsoft's popularity on the desktop is slowly dwindling away. Their best advantage currently is in the business world and hard core gaming.

Microsoft's rolling release model with Windows 10 does not appear to be going well either. Microsoft has no real experience with this model and it shows. The 2004 Feature Upgrade was a total disaster. That's not to say Linux distros are without problems where major version upgrades are concerned but I have never encountered quite the level of breakage I saw with Windows 10.

Times are changing, software eco-systems are changing and people just want their software to work. I think the year of the Linux desktop will arrive quietly without much notice.

Re: Linux will decimate Windows desktop?

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:58 am
by deepakdeshp
exploder wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:29 am
Also I don't see Microsoft abandoning decades of NT kernel work and switching to linux any time soon for Windows.





Times are changing, software eco-systems are changing and people just want their software to work. I think the year of the Linux desktop will arrive quietly without much notice.
The year of Linux desktop is a long way off, if at all it arrives.Even now the Desktop Linux is hardly 3%of the market.

Re: Linux will decimate Windows desktop?

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:26 pm
by Portreve
Microsoft's much ballyhooed plug-n-play was a pale and poor imitation of what we Mac users had since the inception of the platform.

As a practical, functional matter, the only difference between how GNU+Linux of the modern era handles plug-n-play and how Classic Mac OS did is the automated stepping and fetching of drivers when actually needed from an online source. Microsoft's always had a clunky af implementation. They're trying to hide it now by preloading metric s***-tons of drivers and also looking online.

Color me unimpressed.

Linux based Windows

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:10 pm
by deepakdeshp
https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiRm ... id=IN%3Aen
Why to go for Linux based Windows when you can go for pure Linux is my question.

Re: Linux based Windows

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:19 pm
by deepakdeshp

Re: Linux based Windows

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:59 am
by exploder
The year of Linux desktop is a long way off, if at all it arrives.Even now the Desktop Linux is hardly 3%of the market.
Yes, but the number is growing. There is no advertising with Linux like Mac OS and Microsoft. The first time I ever heard about Linux was on Tech TV with Leo LaPort! I was fascinated by the fact that there was an alternative to Windows. My ex-wife brought home "Linux Point And Click" from the library and I have been a Linux user ever since!

I was blown away about how many choices, viewpoints and and philosophies there were. I was a kid in a candy store! All these great ideas and all the different distros hard at work on them. I think a lot of people feel that same excitement once they experience it for themselves. The whole community concept, the way you are free to participate and make a difference if you choose to!

With Windows you get what you get, with Linux you can have whatever you can imagine! Over the years I have used countless DE's and WM's, it's never boring! I have interacted with so many amazing developer's, people I think are brilliant! I could never have the same experience with Microsoft or Apple. People like Clem, Texstar, Mark Shuttleworh, to name just a few, do amazing things in my eyes!

The year of the Linux desktop has already arrived, some just have not discovered it yet!

Re: Linux will decimate Windows desktop?

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:44 am
by Hoser Rob
Portreve wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:22 am
With all the cozying up to GNU+Linux over the last several years and their increasing tendency towards embedding aspects of it in Windows, my suspicion is they will probably replace the NT kernel with a highly patched version of Linux. Whether they also build the rest of the GNU toolkit and such things into Windows, I don't know.

It would be interesting to see Microsoft get embraced and extended by us.
I seriously doubt that MS will give a flying frak anout GNU, any more than Google and Apple does on their 'nix based OSes. To suggest otherwise is merely intellectiual vanity.

Re: Linux will decimate Windows desktop?

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:28 pm
by zshlover
Hoser Rob wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:44 am
Portreve wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:22 am
With all the cozying up to GNU+Linux over the last several years and their increasing tendency towards embedding aspects of it in Windows, my suspicion is they will probably replace the NT kernel with a highly patched version of Linux. Whether they also build the rest of the GNU toolkit and such things into Windows, I don't know.

It would be interesting to see Microsoft get embraced and extended by us.
I seriously doubt that MS will give a flying frak anout GNU, any more than Google and Apple does on their 'nix based OSes. To suggest otherwise is merely intellectiual vanity.
MS develops software for GNU systems, like Visual Studio Code. They're a business, that's all. If Microsoft could sell Linux with a large profit, they would :lol:

Re: Linux based Windows

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:34 pm
by exploder
MS develops software for GNU systems, like Visual Studio Code. They're a business, that's all. If Microsoft could sell Linux with a large profit, they would
You are absolutely right!

Re: Linux will decimate Windows desktop?

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:27 pm
by deepakdeshp
zshlover wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:28 pm
Hoser Rob wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:44 am
Portreve wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:22 am
With all the cozying up to GNU+Linux over the last several years and their increasing tendency towards embedding aspects of it in Windows, my suspicion is they will probably replace the NT kernel with a highly patched version of Linux. Whether they also build the rest of the GNU toolkit and such things into Windows, I don't know.

It would be interesting to see Microsoft get embraced and extended by us.
I seriously doubt that MS will give a flying frak anout GNU, any more than Google and Apple does on their 'nix based OSes. To suggest otherwise is merely intellectiual vanity.
MS develops software for GNU systems, like Visual Studio Code. They're a business, that's all. If Microsoft could sell Linux with a large profit, they would :lol:
Can they sell it legally? After all nobody sells Linux. Even Redhat sells only support and their services.

Re: Linux based Windows

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:51 pm
by DAMIEN1307
an they sell it legally? After all nobody sells Linux. Even Redhat sells only support and their services.
Well lets see...Apple computers use a Linux kernel than modify it with their own propriatory stuff...So, Yep,...I guess you can...Also pretty much everything else out there uses linux kernels such as modems, routers, roku tv boxes etc....and there all for sale...DAMIEN

Re: Linux based Windows

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:23 pm
by Pippin
Apple uses Nextstep based on BSD Unix.....

Edit:
I see it's called XNU now

Re: Linux based Windows

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:28 pm
by DAMIEN1307
Hi pippin,

I stand corrected...thank you...a more indepth article about the differences procided below...DAMIEN
According to Apple’s Github page, XNU is “a hybrid kernel combining the Mach kernel developed at Carnegie Mellon University with components from FreeBSD and C++ API for writing drivers”. The BSD subsystem part of the code is “typically implemented as user-space servers in microkernel systems”. The Mach part is responsible for low-level work, such as multitasking, protected memory, virtual memory management, kernel debugging support, and console I/O.
https://itsfoss.com/mac-linux-difference/

Re: Linux will decimate Windows desktop?

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:35 pm
by antikythera
deepakdeshp wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:27 pm
Can they sell it legally? After all nobody sells Linux. Even Redhat sells only support and their services.
BlackLab Linux tried, look where it got them. Abandoned. However, Linspire is being continued as a licensed linux operating system from the same company. Even if you choose the supportless version it's still behind a paywall and costs $39 a seat. There is Freespire though, a cut down version of linspire.

Re: Linux based Windows

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:37 pm
by deepakdeshp
DAMIEN1307 wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:51 pm
an they sell it legally? After all nobody sells Linux. Even Redhat sells only support and their services.
Well lets see...Apple computers use a Linux kernel than modify it with their own propriatory stuff...So, Yep,...I guess you can...Also pretty much everything else out there uses linux kernels such as modems, routers, roku tv boxes etc....and there all for sale...DAMIEN
The difference here is they sell the hardware like modems, what we are talking is Linux as the software to be sold.

Linux could be the next Windows kernel

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:30 am
by germanix
Windows running on Linux is the future

This is my translation of an article written in the german language that first appeared on ZDNet.de on Friday, Oktober 2, 2020
https://www.zdnet.de/88383098/windows-a ... e-zukunft/


There is speculation that Microsoft is relying more on Linux. In the end, Linux could be the Windows kernel.

A few days ago, Eric S. Raymond (ESR), developer and writer, announced that we were approaching the final phase of the desktop wars. The winner? Windows on Linux. Raymond argues that “WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux) allows unmodified Linux binaries to
run on Windows 10. No emulation, no shim layer, they are simply loaded and executed ”. In fact, you can now run standard Linux programs on WSL2 without any problems.

That's because Linux is well on its way to becoming a premium offering on the Windows desktop. Several Linux distributions, such as Ubuntu, Red Hat Fedora and SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop (SLED), now run on WSL2 without any problems. That's because
Microsoft replaced its WSL1 translation layer, which converted Linux kernel calls to
Windows calls, with the WSL2. With WSL2, Microsoft's own Linux kernel runs on a thin version of the Hyper-V hypervisor.

That is not all. With the current Windows 10 Insider Preview Build 20211, you can now via Windows File Manager and PowerShell access Linux file systems such as ext4.
In addition,make it easy for Microsoft developers to run Linux graphical applications on Windows.

Raymond points out that others are also working to make Windows applications easier to run on Linux. Specifically, he points to Valve Proton, a wine-based compatibility layer designed for running Windows Steam games on Linux. "Games are the most demanding stress test for a Windows emulation layer, much more so than business software". If you can run
Windows games on Linux, why not run Windows business applications too?

He also correctly noted that Microsoft no longer depends on Windows for its cash flow, but on its Azure cloud offering. Where by the way, more Linux instances are running as on Windows Server instances.

If that's the case, why should Microsoft continue to invest money in the notorious, troubled Windows kernel when it can freely use the Linux kernel? Good question. He thinks
Microsoft can figure it out and switch to Linux.

Microsoft wants you to use replace your existing PC-based software, like Office 2019, with software-as-a-service (SaaS) programs like Office 365. Microsoft also encourages you to switch your voice, video, chat, and text communications to Microsoft's Azure Communication Services (ACS) even if you are not using Teams.

Re: Linux could be the next Windows kernel

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 5:04 am
by antikythera
I doubt this will happen but anyway, there's a discussion already up and running here:

:arrow: viewtopic.php?f=61&t=331759