Thinking of going back to Windows

[Drygar_2016]

I started actively using Linux around year 2015. Was long term active Windows user since Windows 3.11 until Windows 10 came out. I was disgusted by Microsoft's privacy and security practises, Metro apps, the Windows updates fiasco, overall Microsoft attitude and how they forced Windows 10. And while Google and Apple do the same, with Windows is easier because of the admin rights and more access to the system (compared to Apple or Google devices).

Going to Linux was not easy, it required a lot of learning from my side, lots of tests until I make it work for me somehow but I finally made it work. Linux Mint is what I find works best for me (when it comes to Linux world). I tried Ubuntu, Ubuntu Mate, Xubuntu, Kubuntu, Debian GNONE, Debian XFCE, Cent OS, Fedora. I am a fan of XFCE due to being lighter and simpler.

I fancy Linux OS being open source, working light usually, how fast the update process is, etc... I enjoy GPart/GParted.

Anyways, I have always had some small but annoying issues.

I still remember Mint website/servers being hacked/ISO changed,
some updates of Mint caused me issues.

It's hard for me to make VirtualBox work and access USB pendrives from host machine.

And I always had problems printing. I have always had HP printers and HP computers (and one Toshiba since 2015). Some years ago I had HP Deskjet printer MFP. It was automatically installed/recognized and used to work fine most of the times (8 out of 10). But there were 20% of the times when it could not start printing. I had to restart printer/PC several times, try whatever troubleshooting I could find online on Ubuntu sites, here and elsewhere , and still it did not work. Then it began working out of nowhere. Last year I bought another HP printer Laserjet. Before buying it I checked it was supported natively by Mint's HPLIP and it was. But I am again facing the same issues. But now 5 out of 10 times it does not work and it is the same story - starting/restarting, troubleshooting and no go. Until after 5 minutes it begins printing out of nowhere. I replaced my printer USB cable and still the same problem. And just when you need to do some WORK, it refused to print. It was never problem with the printers themselves because my sister's PC with Windows 8 and 10 works fine. My other HP PC (running W10) which I use rarely works fine without any issues printing

I am running LM 20.1 now because last time I upgraded from LM 20.1 to 20.2 it completely broke my sound to unrepairable condition -> viewtopic.php?f=48&t=353160&p=2040526#p2040526

On this PC my OS freezes all the time whenever it goes to Sleep or hibernation. it cannot be started after that unless I force restart my device.


Overall, running Windows 10 feels so much easier. Everything installs fast, starts fast, no awkward issues. Software is available. Found some way to control its unwanted connections (using two-way firewall). My other PC is the same specs and Windows 10 boots in 5 seconds [fast start up active] and with Modern stand-by is always on. Although I actively use this PC and the Windows 10 PC rarely, I am seriously thinking of going back to Windows. I am simply tired of all these small bugs/glitches which are sometimes show-stoppers. I spent 10-15 minutes earlier today trying to print a document (8 pages) because of the years long printer problem.
I don't know what to do...

[cliffcoggin]

If you will be happier with Windows, then go ahead and change. The computer should be a tool to help you, not a millstone around your neck.

On the other hand almost all problems with Linux can be resolved with perseverance and help from this forum. The choice is yours.

[RollyShed]

An interesting list of problems. The first thing noticed in the link was your "I am still used to Windows world where it is believed that updates are for good"

It is exactly that (MS update destroyed her system completely) that has my partner using Linux Mint Cinnamon since 2018 and a few weeks ago updated to 20.2. So definitely never do a Windows update any sooner than forced to. Note "forced to".

However as others say, it is up to you what system you use. Most of us have none of the problems you have and I'm talking dozens of computers (30+) I have done installations to.

[151tom]

It is exactly that (MS update destroyed her system completely) that has my partner using Linux Mint Cinnamon since 2018 and a few weeks ago updated to 20.2. So definitely never do a Windows update any sooner than forced to. Note "forced to".

Please explain exactly how a Microsoft update destroyed her system completely.

I've used Windows 10 since it was released and have never had an update destroy my computer.

[RollyShed]

It is exactly that (MS update destroyed her system completely) that has my partner using Linux Mint Cinnamon since 2018 and a few weeks ago updated to 20.2. So definitely never do a Windows update any sooner than forced to. Note "forced to".

Please explain exactly how a Microsoft update destroyed her system completely.
I've used Windows 10 since it was released and have never had an update destroy my computer.

You are lucky.

I've described it before on other threads but... During 2018 she would get viruses written by MS called updates and screen drivers would be deleted or printer drivers etc. Finally in October 2018, "It isn't booting properly today." I plugged in and booted a Linux Mint disk and copied everything across to a Linux Mint disk. Reconnected the Windows disk to boot from and it eventually booted, went from Win10 to Win7 and deleted everything.
The same thing probably hit about a million users.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kevinmurna ... 14e22f2193
and
http://www.forbes.com/sites/amitchowdhr ... 6f5e3f5388
and
They’ve done it again – May 2020
The problem, once again, is KB4556799, a recent Windows 10 update pushed to millions of PCs which has already caused numerous issues, including –
Blue Screen of Death (BSOD) crashes,
Deleted user data, Performance issues, Broken audio and more.
Microsoft is investigating these problems, but the company has now also confirmed on the official KB4556799 update page that it can break Internet connections as well.

Never any problems. I've done an update, 18.3 to 20.2 and she carries on using it and doing what is needed / wanted to be done.

Another user - doing extension studies and not being able to get her assignments in because of MS problems. I installed Linux Mint on an SSD and fitted it to her laptop, copied files and folders over via USB to SATA cable. Assignments? All going well and being delivered on time.

A ukulele builder with an SSD with Linux installed, "Any problems?" "No it (Linux Mint) goes perfectly."

Basically, if you were in the "wrong" bunch of updates you were the update tester as they sacked their testers and left it to the users to be the victims.

And the case I'm talking about? The Linux Mint disk was reconnected and she sat down at the computer now running Linux, complained the icons weren't in the right places on the screen, drag, drag, drag, and then carried on using the computer as she always has for the previous few decades, web browsing, documents, spreadsheets for accounting, downloading violin instruction YouTubes, etc. etc.

[151tom]

OK so it didn't physically destroy the computer which is how it sounded so I had to ask.

I've never seen any OS update physically destroy any computer or hardware regardless of OS being used.

I have others tell me that a Windows 10 update ruined their hard drive and when I went and looked at it the hard drive was working perfectly and going back to a previous restore point was able to put the computer back in service.

My apologies to Drygar for drifting a bit off topic but I had to ask when I read stuff as such.

[RollyShed]

OK so it didn't physically destroy the computer which is how it sounded so I had to ask.

Sorry, terminology and inference.
It destroyed the software system. All the mechanical bits still work perfectly.

[Hoser Rob]

Don't feel guilty about going back to WIndows. Linux takes more commitment. ANyone who tells you otherwise just hasn't been using it long enough. Not everyone is willing or able to make that much commitment.

[tekknj]

@Drygar Who are you trying to convince? You want to go back to Windows, fine. But why spend 30-40 minutes posting a message about your decision in a Linux forum? Seems like a waste of time.

[rick gen]

There is this thing called "dual booting." Many times it's called multiple booting.

When I buy PCs (refurbished) it always comes with the latest Windows.
I didn't have to discard it, just in case I want to re-sell the PC.
And most times I use Windows in some applications.

Point is, there's no harm in doing multiple boots. It's your own computer.
You can do anything you want with it. Why have your life influenced or
controlled by external forces?

Don't know why some people are having these kinds of unimportant problems.

[Drygar_2016]

@Drygar Who are you trying to convince? You want to go back to Windows, fine. But why spend 30-40 minutes posting a message about your decision in a Linux forum? Seems like a waste of time.

I am trying to convince nobody. I don't think a giant like Microsoft needs help trying to convince anybody using their products. I spent 30-40 minutes here or more because I think these forums are good forum for discussion. But hey, we again ended up with some people were open while others staring to blame or protect their choice. But real person's problem never get fixed ? I am not saying that anybody is obligated to do it ? But hey - Microsoft have some sort of support department. Did anybody help me with the problem I reported LM 20.2 update breaking my system ? NO!! I am unable to fix the printing problem for years ? Don't you think I have never asked for help with this before ? It's just nobody cared to help. At least with M$ there is somebody to call and to blame. At all it seems to me that you get what you paid for. I paid for nothing, received a lot, but seems not enough sometimes.

[tekknj]

You're not trying to convince anyone? The title of your post says differently. I clicked into it because I wanted to read your reasons for making this probable decision. I guess if I thought they were valid, I would go back to Windows too. Seems to me that's your intent, no? If not, are you expecting the core Linux user's to talk you out of it? We're all anonymous....

A "real person's problem..."? What is that? And I see [SOLVED] on many posts. So, many people are being served well. You got that right at least. No one here owes you a response or an answer. We are all the same here. Some more experienced than others. But there's nothing stopping you from researching the problem on your own, which I'm sure you have done many times. As a matter of fact, if you do that, you'll be the better for it. Then it would be great for you to then share your experiences and solutions with us all. You can't find find a solution so you throw out "the no body cares" retort. Come on. You sound like my wife when I don't buy a card for Mother's Day. You think MS forums are any better or worst than here. Go look, there are posts in those various forums that haven't been responded to for months/years and therefore locked. Same same same.... So true on the last comment you made. With Linux, it's all free. You get what you put into it. You're free to take the risk and all that comes with it, good and the bad.

[Grayfox]

Please explain exactly how a Microsoft update destroyed her system completely.

Remember the 1809 update issue?
An issue where it deleted user files after installation?
Microsoft recalled it
Microsoft re-released it
It deletes files AGAIN
Microsoft recalled it
Microsoft re--re-released it
It activates features the users were not meant to have
Microsoft recalled it
Microsoft re-re-re-released it

At what point did microsoft test this update?
Oh thats right, Microsoft got rid of their update testing team and pushed that onto the "Insiders" as well as normal users.

An Update should NEVER touch user files, yes sometimes issues can creep up when updating, but for the one update to have so many bugs again and again shows it was never ready for release.

This is also still happening post 1809.
User files are being deleted on updates.
And since the updates are "Forced" you're screwed if you dont have a backup and lets face it.
Average users dont back up.

[Egorama]

There isn't a black n white answer that anyone can offer you here. Make an honest list of what you value most in an OS and decide which one ticks the most boxes for you. Done!

[RollyShed]

Please explain exactly how a Microsoft update destroyed her system completely.

.....
Remember the 1809 update issue?
An issue where it deleted user files after installation?
......
And since the updates are "Forced" you're screwed if you don't have a backup and lets face it.
Average users don't back up.

Thank you Grayfox for reinforcing my comment about MS deleting files and destroying systems. Thank you, we need that reinforced, what they did.

Only about a million users upset, not too many?????

[mikeflan]

Thanks you Drygar_2016 for taking the time to give us your experiences. We want to hear about issues like this. I would say many of them are valid problems, but I'm surprised you have been unable to fix most of them. The printer problems are embarrassing. I don't understand why printing is such a problem.

You have been using Linux to some extent since 2015 and freezing is a problem for you! That really surprises me. I did have a freeze about 2 weeks ago. it surprised me since it is so rare. The time before that - maybe 6 months earlier. And that is with constant, daily use of one of 3 different Linux machines.

I just installed LM 20.1 on a laptop, my first foray into the 20 series. No problems at all. I mean literally not one! But keep in mind I don't have junk hardware. This laptop was a $1,000 machine bought in 2017.

Anyway, who are we kidding here. It's beyond belief that a multi year Linux user would go back to windows as a permanent choice. I seriously doubt that will happen. I am sooo much more productive on Linux.

You're not trying to convince anyone? The title of your post says differently.

I don't see how the topic title is interpreted as a plea for others to follow suit. That is a stretch.

[VassiliTN]

Drygar_2016 I just made the opposite switch, described it in this thread viewtopic.php?f=61&t=351072

I have never used Windows 10 myself, although have to support it for my clients so I am very familiar with how it works. Yes, it's fast and simple. Until an update comes out. There were other reasons I never even considered it for myself, but updates were the deal breaker for me.

As others said computer is a tool and if Windows 10 is a better tool for you then that's what you should use - computer was made for you, not you for the computer. I can tell you a couple of things I learned from my experience:

1. If you have driver problems there is probably nothing you can do short of writing your own. On my HP laptop sound never worked till I upgraded it to kernel 5.14.2. On my desktop the sound driver crashes periodically. Unfortunately hardware manufacturers simply don't write Linux drivers, so unlike in the Windows world you can't expect fixes.

2. Printing and scanning under Linux is atrocious and is not going to get better any time soon. There are, however, some things you can do:
- I always hated wifi printers, each time they lose connection they have horrible time reconnecting and Windows or Linux have horrible time reconnecting to the printer. So if you can hard-wire your printer it will help a lot. Mine is hard wired and it just works with any OS.
- Unless you need to scan hi-res pictures best way to scan is via network to an smb share. That way scanner doen't even know what OS you're using, no need for any drivers. Warning: some scanner models only support smb1, so it may have to be manually enabled on the computer.

3. In terms of VM the solution I found is not cheap but so far have worked exceptionally well. I run Windows Server 2019 as a VM and run all the windows apps that I can't get away from in that VM. It runs great, has no problem with any desktop app and while it receives just as many updates as Windows 10 I haven't had a single update problem with it yet. Also you can print things from that VM - full-blown Windows, network printer - no problem.

For data I setup a shared folder in the Linux OS, so as long as I remember to save all my stuff in that folder either host or VM simply always has access to all of it. Haven't tried accessing flash drives as I don't use them much.

Good luck with it!

[Mintmann]

Not that I want to defend MS but their market share is outrageous.
Hence when doing updates they update a bizillion computers.
That's a lot of hardware to manage. So something is bound to be negatively impacted.

2021
Windows about 89% of the market
Linux about 2%

I hope Linux becomes much more popular and sucks the blood out of MS.

https://netmarketshare.com/operating-sy ... 1000%22%7D

[VassiliTN]

>>>Not that I want to defend MS but their market share is outrageous.
Hence when doing updates they update a bizillion computers.
That's a lot of hardware to manage. So something is bound to be negatively impacted.

Problem is in my experience about 90% of update woes are strictly software. About the only hardware-related update issues I had were with printers and printers and print drivers are one of the most complicated things in IT world anyway. But with software...oh boy... just what I can think off top of my head:

- Unable to open M$ Office documents
- M$ Outlook going completely crazy, functions not working, alignment shot.
- The good old BSOD
- User profiles been either renamed and users panicking because they think they lost all their documents and pictures. Or been deleted altogether, with that all that stuff truly gone
- Third party software no longer working after an update.
- Network type reset from private to public. I hope whoever invented that private/public thing... well, let's not post that

If I think about it probably can add more to this list. And again, this doesn't happen nowhere near as much on the Server OS side. Which is supposedly based on the same technology. If I ever seriously consider going back to Windows I probably will see if the Server OS can work with all the hardware and can run multimedia ok

[AZgl1800]

I started actively using Linux around year 2015. Was long term active Windows user since Windows 3.11 until Windows 10 came out. I was disgusted by Microsoft's privacy and security practises, Metro apps, the Windows updates fiasco, overall Microsoft attitude and how they forced Windows 10. And while Google and Apple do the same, with Windows is easier because of the admin rights and more access to the system (compared to Apple or Google devices).

Overall, running Windows 10 feels so much easier. Everything installs fast, starts fast, no awkward issues. Software is available.
I don't know what to do...

late to your pain, but have a comment that just came from my daughter today.

ACER Win10: ( brand new 30 months ago )

"Daddy!
this damn thing is soooo slow, I can't get anything done, ever since they pushed that crappy upgrade thru last week"

Me:
Time to switch to Linux, my laptop has never quit since I installed Linux Mint.

Her:
"but it won't run ACCESS, I know, because you tried"

Me:
Yup, even paid for a legal copy of CodeWeaver's Cross Over.
Every MS Office Pro app works like a charm, EXCEPT FOR ACCESS

were it not for that little niggling fact, she would abandon Windows so fast, the door would still be wide open by the time she was gone.

.