Linux HATES Me – Daily Driver CHALLENGE Pt.1 [Linus Tech Tips]

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Mint 1 x 0 Pop_OS

Post by Rance Petersen »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0506yDSgU7M

Though configuring multiple monitors could be easier like in Windows by accessing it with a right-click on the desktop.
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Linux HATES Me – Daily Driver CHALLENGE Pt.1 [Linus Tech Tips]

Post by Rayser »

https://youtu.be/0506yDSgU7M


Too long didn't watched:

Linus uninstalled his desktop environment when installing Steam on Pop_Os! and wipe the ssd and installed Manjaro, but still have issues like no sound.
Luke tried Linux Mint Cinnamon and everything works fine besides a double monitor problem when he had a live usb boot, fixed after installing the system.

Two different user experience. Very interesting.
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Linus BREAKS Linux! - Daily Driver Challenge Reaction

Post by Rayser »

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Re: Mint 1 x 0 Pop_OS

Post by rene »

I expect that video series to not go well.

Linus Tech Tips is a good, technically sound channel and Linus Sebastian is a top-notch presenter --- but is a hardware person; most decidedly not a Linux one. Have noticed for decades now that in the computer context one is basically a hardware or a software person; feels either basically just a precondition for the other; feels one should just work and get out of the way of enjoying the other. It is not a coincidence that I as a Linux user am a software person and it is not a coincidence that he as a hardware person is a Windows user --- and should as far as I'm concerned not even try to be other.

I frequently watch LTT videos and Linus has in the context of this Linux challenge been spouting the same deeply average, tired crap that we're hearing hundreds of times over on this forum as to how Linux is not for Normal People unless one can use it with one's head inserted 30 centimetres deep into one's arse since the Average User can of course not be expected to [ etc., etc. ].

Average Users use Windows and may gladly suffer Microsoft deciding what they may do with their computer. I've stopped watching "WAN show" two times already due to report of this "challenge". Linus Sebastian has been at this Tech Tips thing for 10+ years now; if he is at this point in time still an Average User then what a complete and utter drooling imbecile must the man be by nature, right?! Heavens...

Now, he isn't, but is a hardware person. Basically needs the software to just work and get out the way of him enjoying e.g. chasing FPS on some stupid computer game and/or streaming said stupid computer game or making videos about the hardware running said stupid computer game. Which is fine! People who are not a software person to a degree to which he is not should absolutely and most decidedly not run Linux, maybe unless e.g. Valve has in the context of the Steam Deck hid Linux away far enough that they won't in fact have to deal with the software.

What is not fine is not realising one's own judgement bias; that it's just how Normal People need things to be. I'm for example very aware that my bias as a software person has me put up with a heck of a lot more crap from Linux than a hardware person ever would or should, but fortunately for the rest of the world I don't make videos about my biases. I just read that same deeply average, tired crap over and over again in the Open Chat forum here and sometimes respond saying this or alike...

Yah. That LTT video series will not end up with an appreciable number of Linux converts...
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Re: Mint 1 x 0 Pop_OS

Post by Rayser »

rene wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 1:52 am I expect that video series to not go well.

Linus Tech Tips is a good, technically sound channel and Linus Sebastian is a top-notch presenter --- but is a hardware person; most decidedly not a Linux one. Have noticed for decades now that in the computer context one is basically a hardware or a software person; feels either basically just a precondition for the other; feels one should just work and get out of the way of enjoying the other. It is not a coincidence that I as a Linux user am a software person and it is not a coincidence that he as a hardware person is a Windows user --- and should as far as I'm concerned not even try to be other.

I frequently watch LTT videos and Linus has in the context of this Linux challenge been spouting the same deeply average, tired crap that we're hearing hundreds of times over on this forum as to how Linux is not for Normal People unless one can use it with one's head inserted 30 centimetres deep into one's arse since the Average User can of course not be expected to [ etc., etc. ].

Average Users use Windows and may gladly suffer Microsoft deciding what they may do with their computer. I've stopped watching "WAN show" two times already due to report of this "challenge". Linus Sebastian has been at this Tech Tips thing for 10+ years now; if he is at this point in time still an Average User then what a complete and utter drooling imbecile must the man be by nature, right?! Heavens...

Now, he isn't, but is a hardware person. Basically needs the software to just work and get out the way of him enjoying e.g. chasing FPS on some stupid computer game and/or streaming said stupid computer game or making videos about the hardware running said stupid computer game. Which is fine! People who are not a software person to a degree to which he is not should absolutely and most decidedly not run Linux, maybe unless e.g. Valve has in the context of the Steam Deck hid Linux away far enough that they won't in fact have to deal with the software.

What is not fine is not realising one's own judgement bias; that it's just how Normal People need things to be. I'm for example very aware that my bias as a software person has me put up with a heck of a lot more crap from Linux than a hardware person ever would or should, but fortunately for the rest of the world I don't make videos about my biases. I just read that same deeply average, tired crap over and over again in the Open Chat forum here and sometimes respond saying this or alike...

Yah. That LTT video series will not end up with an appreciable number of Linux converts...
You must remember the other part of the video (Luke) had a very good experience.
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Re: Mint 1 x 0 Pop_OS

Post by rene »

Yeah, don't expect it'll last; believe to have in fact heard him say something about needing to switch away from Mint due to some long-standing bug.

But sure; Luke is definitely more a software person than Linus is; could perhaps end up with some distribution for some additional time. Not sure he'll be in the 2% in the long run either though...
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Re: Mint 1 x 0 Pop_OS

Post by Rayser »

rene wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 2:07 am Yeah, don't expect it'll last; believe to have in fact heard him say something about needing to switch away from Mint due to some long-standing bug.

But sure; Luke is definitely more a software person than Linus is; could perhaps end up with some distribution for some additional time. Not sure he'll be in the 2% in the long run either though...
Last WAN show he said he installed Mint on his Laptop, now he have 2 mint OS.

Don't think he changed Mint for other distro.
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Re: Linux HATES Me – Daily Driver CHALLENGE Pt.1 [Linus Tech Tips]

Post by rene »

Threads should probably be merged; wondered for a bit where my comment had gone...

viewtopic.php?p=2092634#p2092634
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Re: Mint 1 x 0 Pop_OS

Post by spamegg »

rene wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 2:07 am But sure; Luke is definitely more a software person than Linus is
Yep, he works on the software development side of their early access platform Floatplane. I'm not sure if he is a programmer himself (probably not) but he is familiar with software development, at least on a managing scale.
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Re: Linux HATES Me – Daily Driver CHALLENGE Pt.1 [Linus Tech Tips]

Post by Moem »

rene wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:00 am Threads should probably be merged
Done. There is really no need to have all of these YT links in separate threads.
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Re: Linux HATES Me – Daily Driver CHALLENGE Pt.1 [Linus Tech Tips]

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

My first impression on Linus' woes trying to work with POP! OS is he seems to be thinking he is still in Windwoes and, with a Linux desktop environment, he needs to learn to crawl before he can walk. Linus is pretty sharp, both with software and hardware, and is a brilliant businessman, but he is hosing up in the Linux Daily Driver Challenge big time. What I don't understand is why he isn't working with Anthony with this. Anthony is the most knowledgeable member of LMG (former name; I forget what the new name is) and is already very familiar with POP! OS (plus he has a pleasant voice and doesn't act like a child like everyone else does).

Some things I do agree with Linus is Linux has an overwhelming amount of choices, conflicting information, and that finding non-jargon loaded, simple to follow directions.

Chris Titus has an interesting reaction to this challenge here: https://youtu.be/zQFNlTBDvto Be sure to read the comments.

This guy also has some interesting comments worth hearing (even though this guy's voice and exaggerated use of connective "Rs" instead of glottal stops drove me nuts). https://youtu.be/5JGm96zq4IY
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Re: Linux HATES Me – Daily Driver CHALLENGE Pt.1 [Linus Tech Tips]

Post by rambo919 »

Lady Fitzgerald wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 4:24 am My first impression on Linus' woes trying to work with POP! OS is he seems to be thinking he is still in Windwoes and, with a Linux desktop environment, he needs to learn to crawl before he can walk.
That's rather the point of the whole challenge, gauging the ease of transition for "normies" i.e. plug and play non-power-users that have no interest in using a DIY OS.

Linus is making a lot of perfectly understandable first timer mistakes.

Luke on the other hand has previous (if limited) Linux experience and it shows.

.....also LM is generally superior to POP..... just sayin.
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Re: Linux HATES Me – Daily Driver CHALLENGE Pt.1 [Linus Tech Tips]

Post by rene »

rambo919 wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 4:34 am That's rather the point of the whole challenge, gauging the ease of transition for "normies" i.e. plug and play non-power-users that have no interest in using a DIY OS.
So let us short-circuit that for them then. As most who have been here a long time know, Linux can be used by "normies" that don't in fact use their computer for (m)any interesting/involved tasks in the first place, by power-users, and otherwise by those in a few specific fields such as software development and some academic disciplines. With/through Valve's proton gaming is better than it used to be (which is not saying much) but going from there to a daily driver for a user who does e.g. need video-streaming and/or -editing or ultimate compatibility with remote control applications or Zoom or Microsoft Office or... --- no, still no, and probably never will be.

It's not a coincidence that people on for example this forum are in such large proportion pensioners; people that don't in fact need to interface with the world as such all that much any more and/or have enough time to waste on details of doing so...
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Re: Linux HATES Me – Daily Driver CHALLENGE Pt.1 [Linus Tech Tips]

Post by Rayser »

Lady Fitzgerald wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 4:24 am What I don't understand is why he isn't working with Anthony with this.
That's part of the challenge, he must act like a normal guy.
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Re: Linux HATES Me – Daily Driver CHALLENGE Pt.1 [Linus Tech Tips]

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

Rayser wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:11 am
Lady Fitzgerald wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 4:24 am What I don't understand is why he isn't working with Anthony with this.
That's part of the challenge, he must act like a normal guy.
Good point. Still, Anthony made a video for one of Linus' BoobTube channels for beginners on how to install POP OS and to start using it that's readily available to anyone; it is unclear if Linus ever referred to it or not. Also, one could always seek help from System 76 (assuming they can or will help). Linus is acting like the stereotypical male whose pride won't let him ask for directions.

I don't remember who said it (Joe Collins, maybe?) but it can be far harder for those who are proficient in Windwoes and/or MAC to learn to use Linux because they have to unlearn so much. Linus is extremely proficient at both, making him not a normal guy.

One good reason Mint is superior to POP OS is its support community, such as these forums which are superior to other forums I've seen. It would be interesting (if not hilarious) if Luke was to appear here looking for help (or even just participate in the discussions here, some of them LMG's kind of wacky).
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Re: Linux HATES Me – Daily Driver CHALLENGE Pt.1 [Linus Tech Tips]

Post by ugly »

Lady Fitzgerald wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:25 pm I don't remember who said it (Joe Collins, maybe?) but it can be far harder for those who are proficient in Windwoes and/or MAC to learn to use Linux because they have to unlearn so much. Linus is extremely proficient at both, making him not a normal guy.
Yeah, I think that's one of the big mental hurdles when switching. I used Windows for 15-20 years. I considered myself something of an 'expert with computers'. So when I started using Linux I didn't consider myself a 'beginner'.

The first time I tried to use Linux (this was years before I switched permanently), I actually did the same thing as Linus and accidentally uninstalled my whole desktop environment. And part of the reason was kind of an arrogant attitude that I know what I'm doing because I think I'm a computer expert. When I actually didn't have a clue what I was doing.

Switching to Linux isn't incredibly difficult. But I think a lot of people who hear about switching end up believing that they are going to install Linux and be able to recreate everything they were doing on Windows on day one. The problem is you can't really compare the knowledge developed over 10+ years using Windows and expect Linux to work the same way for you when you have no experience with it.
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Re: Linux HATES Me – Daily Driver CHALLENGE Pt.1 [Linus Tech Tips]

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

Another reaction video: https://youtu.be/D8j1n05s9-w
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Re: Linux HATES Me – Daily Driver CHALLENGE Pt.1 [Linus Tech Tips]

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

ugly wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:52 pm
Lady Fitzgerald wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:25 pm I don't remember who said it (Joe Collins, maybe?) but it can be far harder for those who are proficient in Windwoes and/or MAC to learn to use Linux because they have to unlearn so much. Linus is extremely proficient at both, making him not a normal guy.
Yeah, I think that's one of the big mental hurdles when switching. I used Windows for 15-20 years. I considered myself something of an 'expert with computers'. So when I started using Linux I didn't consider myself a 'beginner'.

The first time I tried to use Linux (this was years before I switched permanently), I actually did the same thing as Linus and accidentally uninstalled my whole desktop environment. And part of the reason was kind of an arrogant attitude that I know what I'm doing because I think I'm a computer expert. When I actually didn't have a clue what I was doing.

Switching to Linux isn't incredibly difficult. But I think a lot of people who hear about switching end up believing that they are going to install Linux and be able to recreate everything they were doing on Windows on day one. The problem is you can't really compare the knowledge developed over 10+ years using Windows and expect Linux to work the same way for you when you have no experience with it.
I wish I had a dollar for every time I borked my installation when I was first starting out. BoobTubers, like Joe Collins and a few others I don't recall (I plead Senioritis), managed to pound into my feeble mind that Linux is NOT Windows even if it may look similar onscreen so I was ready for failures when I bit the bullet and dove in (OK, I eased in feet first at first). By starting with a notebook other than my daily driver, I had the luxury of learning from those failures and not having great expectations for immediate success hindering me. The forums here have been a huge help as well. Forgive my facetiousness but being a woman not afraid to ask for directions was also a huge help.
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Re: Linux HATES Me – Daily Driver CHALLENGE Pt.1 [Linus Tech Tips]

Post by Michael_Hathaway »

I loved watching Linus uninstall his DE, I was laughing pretty hard. Who needs a DE? It's just bloat... :lol:
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Re: Linux HATES Me – Daily Driver CHALLENGE Pt.1 [Linus Tech Tips]

Post by rambo919 »

Lady Fitzgerald wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:18 pm Forgive my facetiousness but being a woman not afraid to ask for directions was also a huge help.
Being equally facetious.... being a woman means no one cares if you ask for directions.

Speaking for myself I literally RTFM before my first install.... got two "all about linux" books somewhere, think one was a linux bible 6..... Also used a starter notebook.

Normal users won't RTFM. Normal users won't use a starter machine to test the waters..... normal users will simply expect everything to work and then blame the manufacturer for all problems.
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