To WINE or not to WINE, that is the question?

[MurphCID]

I have known about WINE from my old and bad days with Mandrake.
I hear it has become the best thing since sliced Pizza according to some.
I hear that it will bork your system by allowing Viruses to destroy it, I have heard that it allows Windows malware to do terrible things to a Linux system.
I have heard it is utterly insecure, and forces you to use a Virus/Malware program to protect your Linux machine.
So what is the truth of the matter?
Do you have to have a stand alone copy of Windows to install?
Or what exactly does Wine bring to the table that a VM machine does not?

[MikeNovember]

Hi,

Wine allows to run some Windows apps in other operatings systems (Linux, MacOS) without the need of a Windows license.

Concerning Wine on Linux Mint, ie Wine on Ubuntu: read this page https://wiki.winehq.org/Ubuntu.
There is an important limitation,

Compiling WoW64
Ubuntu's implementation of Multiarch is still incomplete, so for now you can't simply install 32-bit and 64-bit libraries alongside each other. If you're on a 64-bit system, you'll have to create an isolated environment for installing and building with 32-bit dependencies. See Building Biarch Wine On Ubuntu for detailed instructions for Ubuntu using LXC, and Building Wine for general information.

So, using 32 bits apps and 64 bits apps under Ubuntu / Linux Mint will require some installation work, including compiling.

Wine often needs the help of Winetricks, which will download some dlls and runtimes from Microsoft websites, they will be used as a complement to Wine itself (note that this induces a licensing problem: to be allowed to use these dlls or runtimes you need a Windows license).

It seems that PlayOnLinux knows well how to play with Wine. Some people install a fresh Wine from winehq, than PlayOnlinux, and set PlayOnLinux to use the fresh Wine (not its own outdated version of Wine).

About security: Windows processes should preferably be run separated from Linux ones. The use of Wine, PlayOnLinux or mono runtime (which allows some .Net Windows apps to be run on Linux, even without Wine) is not recommended. The most secure way to use Wine is to install flatpak Bottles: Bottles is a kind of Wine container, and when Bottles is installed as flatpak, apps running Wine inside Bottles are sandboxed.

Finally, if your computer can use a VM (multi-cores processor, RAM enough to allow some to Windows VM), and if you can pay some 15$ to buy online an OEM license of Windows, it is much easier to install a VM software (I recommend VMware Workstation Player) and install a Windows 10 VM than to install and set-up Wine. And you will have no app compatibility problem. And Windows processes in their VM will be isolated from Linux ones...

Regards,

MN

PS: you can read this thread viewtopic.php?f=61&t=360705 to get more opinions on Wine.

[kc1di]

I have found that playonlinux which is a frontend for wine works well and allows 32 bit programs to run. But as with anything wine not all windows programs run under wine. If your program does not run under wine. The VM route is the best to go.
If you know the app your wanting to use you can look in the Wine application data base. Found here: https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager. ... nding=true
You will find out if others have gotten it to work under wine and how well and most importantly many will tell you which version of wine it worked under.
In play on linux you can mangage the wine version from old to nearly the latest by going to the tool menu and using manage wine version.

Good luck in what ever you choose.
And as far as I've seen and heard I have never seen any windows malware capable of damaging your Linux distro install via wine. You can however pass viruses on to other windows users via wine. So you need to be careful just as on windows what and where you down load apps from. But the same holds true for VM's running Windows also.

[Hoser Rob]

Yes, WIne can be a security issue.

But the bigger issue for me is that Wine is a stupid idea that fails more often than not. And it always will because it's a stupid idea in the first place. To those who think their Wine is working great: you juist haven't done enough updates yet.

So if you need some WIndows, keep some. Dual boot or in a VM.

[BenTrabetere]

I fall in the 'not to WINE' camp on all of my machines, but I have had little to no need for any Windows applications for several years. By the time Tara was released I was almost 100% Linux.

I found Wine and PlayOnLinux to be hit-or-miss platforms: Acrobat Pro (CS3) and PageMaker ran flawlessly, Photoshop (CS3) and InDesign would crash unpredictably, I always felt uncomfortable using prep software, and iTunes would not run at all. I switched (back) to dual-booting and using VMs, but I used them so infrequently that most of my time in WindowsLand was spent installing updates ... and rebooting. One of my "severance package" machines is set up to dual-boot to Win10, but this machine sits idle, waiting for me to order a KVM switch.

[GELvdH]

It seems that there are a number of cons about Wine so here is a pro. I have been using Wine from Winehq.org, for several years on only one software, AceMoney, and it has performed flawlesly. Every other software which I needed had an equivalent or better Linux version. That being said, it looks like it depends on which application will perform your needs.

[motoryzen]

If the program installs seemingly fine yet won't launch under only Wine...install and try Lutris as sometimes Lutris can get it running when plain wine can't due to all the easily done customization options.

These options include and may not be limited to : multiple wine versions, enabling or disabling dxvk and vulkan easily, and other fine tuning settings.

Also remember that the program's .exe launcher file MUST be in the same folder of the wine directory that wine auto created for it to launch....regardless of plain wine only or with Lutris help

[AZgl1800]

It seems that there are a number of cons about Wine so here is a pro. I have been using Wine from Winehq.org, for several years on only one software, AceMoney, and it has performed flawlessly. Every other software which I needed had an equivalent or better Linux version. That being said, it looks like it depends on which application will perform your needs.

I saw your comment on AceMoney, and downloaded it into my VM Win10.
It installed easily, and I was able to do a direct download from my Credit Union after a few miscues in setup.

nothing in Linux land even comes close to it, I have tried them all and uninstalled every one of them, opting to just use the online access, download the spreadsheet info, and import it into my Excel spreadsheet....

will let it go 29 days and make a decision on coughing up the fees for it....

Tmw, I will give it a try in Cross Over and see how that works.

[Pierre]

there issue is, that there is no Linux Alternative, to some of these programs.

in my case, there is an small number of such programs, that do work well in ./wine,
and I've used that method for some time, now.

the later versions of those programs, do Not work well, though,
and I've thus stuck with the older version .. all backed up, of course.

the idea that using the ./wine environment is insecure, is often stated,
and I've yet to find that is the case.

likewise, for the idea that virus & such like, can affect you Linux Host System,
and again, I've found little evidence to support those claims.

the idea of using an ./wine environment, which is an stop-gap measure, anyway,
is getting better with each new release of the environment interface,
although it's an constantly moving target, of the ./wine environment Vs the newer windows program.

in my case, I've also supported CrossOver as they are the main supporter,
of this environment interface, with their internal coding, is given back to the wider community.

it is also an cheaper option, to the actual purchase of an Windows Licence,
which is often incorporated into the purchase of any new Windows based machine.

and if you can pay some 15$ to buy online an OEM license of Windows,

PS: you can read this thread viewtopic.php?f=61&t=360705 to get more opinions on Wine.

that price is incorrect & that is often the Price of an UN-authorised copy of the Windows System,
- - that viewpoint, can't be supported by this Linux Forum.

[MikeNovember]

and if you can pay some 15$ to buy online an OEM license of Windows,

PS: you can read this thread viewtopic.php?f=61&t=360705 to get more opinions on Wine.

that price is incorrect & that is often the Price of an UN-authorised copy of the Windows System,
- - that viewpoint, can't be supported by this Linux Forum.

Hi,

Your statement "that price is incorrect & that is often the Price of an UN-authorised copy of the Windows System" is an UN-proved one and just reflects your opinion.

I disagree with you. Since you can buy an entry level computer for a retail price of 280 USD, including a Windows 10 license, you should understand that the cost of an OEM license, sold in large quantity by Microsoft to computers manufacturers is only some USD.

Companies selling online OEM licenses buy them in large quantities from Microsoft and re-sell them online for a low cost, with a small profit per license (but they sell lots of licenses...).

These licenses are valid ones, and pass through Microsoft validation process during Windows installation (this is the proof, and the only one, that a license is valid).

Of course, this does not exclude the possibility that companies selling online might sell stolen or invalid licenses; this is not specific to Microsoft Windows but could arrive for any software license sold online. As for any online purchase, you "buy the seller" and have to know about his reputation.

Note that OEM licenses, purchased online or with a computer, are attached to one computer, and cannot be transferred to another one. This is not valid in countries such EU ones, where the rights of the program owner on the use of the program stop when he has sold the license (this offers the possibility to sell second hand licenses, taken from recycled computers).
Full licenses, as sold by Microsoft, are not attached to a computer and their retail cost is much higher than OEM ones. Almost nobody has a full license, since licenses sold with a computer are OEM ones.

Regards,

MN

[Pierre]

Mike,
us folks here in Australia,
- would like to know where an copy of the Windows System,
can be bought for just $15USD
- - seriously - -

there would be an bus_load of folks that would be wanting to Buy at that Price.

Pierre

[kelevra]

I have some 90s games that I use Wine for. It works for most of them and I enjoy using some of my old software. I could use a Windows 10 VM but it has the same issues as an actual machine, plus it swallows a ton of HDD space. I don't use old programs often enough to dedicate space to a VM, so I'm happy using .

[MikeNovember]

Mike,
us folks here in Australia,
- would like to know where an copy of the Windows System,
can be bought for just $15USD
- - seriously - -

there would be an bus_load of folks that would be wanting to Buy at that Price.

Pierre

Hi,

Look for "YEKDCRU PIV" (lege modo cancrorum*). My license of Windows 10 Pro, bought from this website, has been validated during the installation of Windows more than 2 years ago, and is still valid after 5 versions of Windows 10 (now 21H2) and tens of windows updates.

There are lots of online sellers (Google is your friend) but I cannot recommend them, since I have bought nothing from them.

Regards,

MN

(*): Latin quote from Cicero, "Tibi mitto metulas, lege modo cancrorum". When you read "metulas" the crab way, you get "salutem".

[MikeNovember]

I have some 90s games that I use Wine for. It works for most of them and I enjoy using some of my old software. I could use a Windows 10 VM but it has the same issues as an actual machine, plus it swallows a ton of HDD space. I don't use old programs often enough to dedicate space to a VM, so I'm happy using .

Hi,

For good oldies, I have a Windows 7 32 bits virtual machine (it runs not connected to internet). Its size is less than 9GB, Windows + programs.

Regards,

MN

[majpooper]

and if you can pay some 15$ to buy online an OEM license of Windows,

PS: you can read this thread viewtopic.php?f=61&t=360705 to get more opinions on Wine.

that price is incorrect & that is often the Price of an UN-authorised copy of the Windows System,
- - that viewpoint, can't be supported by this Linux Forum.

Hi,

Your statement "that price is incorrect & that is often the Price of an UN-authorised copy of the Windows System" is an UN-proved one and just reflects your opinion.

I disagree with you. Since you can buy an entry level computer for a retail price of 280 USD, including a Windows 10 license, you should understand that the cost of an OEM license, sold in large quantity by Microsoft to computers manufacturers is only some USD.

Companies selling online OEM licenses buy them in large quantities from Microsoft and re-sell them online for a low cost, with a small profit per license (but they sell lots of licenses...).

These licenses are valid ones, and pass through Microsoft validation process during Windows installation (this is the proof, and the only one, that a license is valid).

Of course, this does not exclude the possibility that companies selling online might sell stolen or invalid licenses; this is not specific to Microsoft Windows but could arrive for any software license sold online. As for any online purchase, you "buy the seller" and have to know about his reputation.

Note that OEM licenses, purchased online or with a computer, are attached to one computer, and cannot be transferred to another one. This is not valid in countries such EU ones, where the rights of the program owner on the use of the program stop when he has sold the license (this offers the possibility to sell second hand licenses, taken from recycled computers).
Full licenses, as sold by Microsoft, are not attached to a computer and their retail cost is much higher than OEM ones. Almost nobody has a full license, since licenses sold with a computer are OEM ones.

Regards,

MN

I bought my daily driver 12 years ago which came with Windows 7 - somehow it ended up on Windows 8.1(i can't remember if I bought that or not). At the time I was running linux in a VM. After dual booting for a very short time I decided to install linux. But for whatever reason Windows would not except my Win 7 or Win 8.1 product codes in the VM. I called MS and explained I was running linux and wanted to run Windows using my license in a VM on the same computer. To my surprise the technician after a verification process sent me an email with a link to download Windows 10 and a product code. There is no need to buy a license for Windows if you are going to install it in a VM on the same machine that came with a Windows license in the first place.

[MikeNovember]

I bought my daily driver 12 years ago which came with Windows 7 - somehow it ended up on Windows 8.1(i can't remember if I bought that or not). At the time I was running linux in a VM. After dual booting for a very short time I decided to install linux. But for whatever reason Windows would not except my Win 7 or Win 8.1 product codes in the VM. I called MS and explained I was running linux and wanted to run Windows using my license in a VM on the same computer. To my surprise the technician after a verification process sent me an email with a link to download Windows 10 and a product code. There is no need to buy a license for Windows if you are going to install it in a VM on the same machine that came with a Windows license in the first place.

Hi,

Yes I knew this, and on my computer there is a Windows 7 Home Edition attached license. I could have upgraded to Windows 10 Home using this license (just entering the numbers during Windows 10 installation). However, I wanted a Windows 10 Pro license (allowing me, for example, to delay install of Windows updates). That's why I bought a Windows 10 Pro license.

Regards,

MN

[MurphCID]

Ok, so back to my original question, does WINE make your Linux system more vulnerable to viruses and malware?

[kelevra]

Ok, so back to my original question, does WINE make your Linux system more vulnerable to viruses and malware?

Off topic again . For what I do with Wine, I don't have issues. There could be vulnerabilities that I am unaware of but for the most part, I feel safe.

[MurphCID]

Ok, so back to my original question, does WINE make your Linux system more vulnerable to viruses and malware?

Off topic again . For what I do with Wine, I don't have issues. There could be vulnerabilities that I am unaware of but for the most part, I feel safe.

Thanks! I am the Master, the Master, I tell you of the off topic! Muahahahaha!

[DavidMcCann]

If you install Windows programs rashly, you may get malware. If you do it using Wine, the same thing happens. The chief functions of Wine are to enable those who want them to play Windows games and those of us who have custom software from out of the ark to keep using it. If you stick to those goals, there should be no problems — certainly I've not had any in the last 20 years.

The suggestion that I keep Windows would be silly, since I've never had a computer with Windows installed in the first place. My current desktop was built to order by those nice people at CCL (Bradford, Yorkshire). They would have installed Windows 10 if I'd asked, but charged me £100 extra — the computer only cost £240!