Does Linux on a Desktop Feel Like a "Cheap Hack"?

[iliketrains]

They're still catering to users with very old PCs that are basically become just toys to play with and have no real purpose.

I resemble that statement The world moves on despite my best efforts.
There's room in the Linux world for all of us and if Mint won't run on properly on a 12yr old unit there are plenty of alternatives. No complaints here as I consider Mint and Ubuntu as desktop flagships if that makes any sense..
At the same time sometimes changes feel more eye candy than improved function. Matters much to some and less to others.

[all41]

lol --- being known as a 'cheap hack' is honorable in my circles
@ir1

[MurphCID]

lol --- being known as a 'cheap hack' is honorable in my circles
@ir1

Used to be called a "cheap date", but then I got married.....

[MurphCID]

Does Linux on a Desktop Feel Like a "Cheap Hack"?

I'm sure most of that impression come from the graphics presentation, which is like we're still in the MS-DOS era.
It's because many Linux developers are still of the mindset that enhancing graphics clogs the system.
They're still catering to users with very old PCs that are basically become just toys to play with and have no real purpose.
A week ago I tried adding MX Linux in my system. The partitioning requirement at setup alone got me confused unlike in Mint or Ubuntu-based.
It's finally installed, to make the story short, after much googling and head scratching. This is what they call Debian, still can't get things straightforward after all these years.

Of course, I have to compare it with Mint Xfce, and, IMHO, it is not as good and doesn't feel home to me.
Graphics is still paltry, with devs still afraid to go all out enhancing graphics offering card games that look like they're from the stone age.

This boggles my mind because I had a laptop many years back with less than 1G ram and WinXP was running smoothly and overall elegant,
probably the best OS ever written. And here we have the number one Distro listed at DWatch and they still can't get their acts together
in this day and age.

I have not yet been able to get MX Linux to work properly on any laptop I have tried it out on, there is always some glitch.

[Termy]

This boggles my mind because I had a laptop many years back with less than 1G ram and WinXP was running smoothly and overall elegant,
probably the best OS ever written. And here we have the number one Distro listed at DWatch and they still can't get their acts together.

DistroWatch rankings should be taken with a pinch of salt; they do not necessarily indicate the popularity of a distribution, only how often it's queried on that site. They provide interesting statistics, but it's not the be all and end all.

If you had a bad experience with what I can only assume is Linux Mint, "many years back", which I also did, then it might be worth ditching that old justification and moving on. Linux has grown immensely since the however many years back to which you were referring. Even if this weren't the case, using one old laptop from years ago as a reason to justify your view that "they still can't get their acts together" seems incongruous, unless I'm missing something.

There definitely are some things I don't like about Linux Mint or the state of Linux in general, but I still think it's important to acknowledge and appreciate the advancements which have been made.

[Hoser Rob]

... many Linux developers are still of the mindset that enhancing graphics clogs the system.
They're still catering to users with very old PCs that are basically become just toys to play with and have no real purpose....

I'm not one of those Linux users who think Linux is meant for old hardware ... I mean, look at the top DEs and browsers ... but that's just 100% rubbish. And you may be surprised how many people are out there doing IT support on pcs that are a dozen years old and actually making money from them.

[RollyShed]

I'm sure most of that impression come from the graphics presentation, which is like we're still in the MS-DOS era.
It's because many Linux developers are still of the mindset that enhancing graphics clogs the system.
They're still catering to users with very old PCs that are basically become just toys to play with and have no real purpose.

What do you mean by "enhancing graphics"?
Making the icons more "flashy"? Messing up the desktop with rubbish?
The problem is too many forget, plain is simple. Simple means easy to find things, easy to use, quicker to get things done, not limited.

I often see flashy websites and know straight away that there won't be anything of use on it because it is flashy to fill up the otherwise empty space.

Old computers to play with? Just how old do you mean? One computer here was just recently replaced with a newer one as there just happened to be one lying around. The old one? Probably 7-8 years old and doing work, accounting, documents, emails, teaching things etc.

The newer one is probably 4 years old and will be good for another 5 or 6 years.

NOTE - the 500 fastest computers in the world use Linux.

[Hoser Rob]

... many Linux developers are still of the mindset that enhancing graphics clogs the system....

What do you mean by "enhancing graphics"?
Making the icons more "flashy"? Messing up the desktop with rubbish?...

I'm not sure that was expressed all that well, but there is a valid point there. The Linux graphics stack is a mess. Seriously, it's a joke. Apple OS and Google OS have managed to make Unix graphics work because they have the resources to do it. Wayland will be a big improvement but it's not 100% widespread yet.

the 500 fastest computers in the world use Linux.

So do most servers. They, like those who run the supercomputers, can afford the tech support staff.

[ivar]

If there was a 100% secure OS... then everyone in the world would use it.

I suspect for a 100% secure OS, it would more likely be so constrained and limiting in use that regular users would shy away from it

[Marie SWE]

If there was a 100% secure OS... then everyone in the world would use it.

I suspect for a 100% secure OS, it would more likely be so constrained and limiting in use that regular users would shy away from it

a read only system

[MurphCID]

... many Linux developers are still of the mindset that enhancing graphics clogs the system....

What do you mean by "enhancing graphics"?
Making the icons more "flashy"? Messing up the desktop with rubbish?...

I'm not sure that was expressed all that well, but there is a valid point there. The Linux graphics stack is a mess. Seriously, it's a joke. Apple OS and Google OS have managed to make Unix graphics work because they have the resources to do it. Wayland will be a big improvement but it's not 100% widespread yet.

the 500 fastest computers in the world use Linux.

So do most servers. They, like those who run the supercomputers, can afford the tech support staff.

I agree, my gold standard is the Mac OS, and how nice it makes things look. But Linux is starting to make strides, icons no longer look 1990's, they have advanced to the early 2000's. X Windows vs Wayland, I do not know enough to comment really. Which ever one it is, I just hope it works and is stable.

[Oraticus]

Being new to linux and Linux Mint Cinnamon 20.x all I can say is that it looks like linux operating systems are not really products.
They seem more like event spaces where important computer stuff happens from the perspective of the computer manufacture, component making, ... and system builders looking to provide a hook or attraction with computer users.

Then there are the influences of the hardware makers, factor in the rate of new stuff coming on to the market and the practices in commercial environments be that server side, home, desktop, mobile, wearable, device, ...
I'll end there as I am losing the thread in this I mean just try to define computer user (engage brain and look at the complexity of users?)
And maybe that is the linux environment strength and weakness (okay - I admit it. I am trying to appeal to a sense of wisdom as I feel unable to reach a rigid conclusion where it might be impossible for one to exist?) I also invite researchers at all stages of computer enabling into the term "computer user".

So maybe it is better to re-ask the question something like: what is the more acceptable combination of things to make a linux operating system appear <add favourite constraint, hate or thing here>.
So, for example, antiX is not really a product as such like a vase or tea cup. It is a concept that changes with time and circumstances with material constraints.

Now I have gone and lost the plot again! This time on "material constraints". Does "material constraints" also include the development team/personnel?
Interim conclusion: the world is a better place due to linux existing. Linux is not a product, it is a dynamic amalgam of many diversities melding into making computer doings more doable according to the limitations and hopes of the time?
Q: what is linux?
A: 42

[MurphCID]

This is a great video, and I completely agree with him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGgaXY0DW18

[Oraticus]

This is a great video, and I completely agree with him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGgaXY0DW18

deepin, cutefish forms of linux seem to be doing just that, Aiming for a naive yet computer savvie people (kids?).

One other difference might be that no longer is it entirely safe to assume folks know nothing about computers - heck some 70 and 80 year olds I know take iPhones with GPS navs (EDIT add: when walking in the hills and meadows) to keep the care workers and home team happy. All in realtime! With shared gps and live video links provided signal exists of course

The other things is: are users of the forum being seen as the "enemy"?

Linux Mint might have a good bit of catching up to do?

Q: What do I see down the line?
A: I am glad I asked that question for you
Linux should be the primary OS in junior middle and high school with excellent limitations for the users. It is doable, it should have been done
Linux should transition middle - high - further ed/higher ed into greater computer sophistication. it is done usually at Post-Grad level but ... it should have been done Tex? Latex? Anyone?

The other side of the discussion has always been: do I need to be a computer nerd to access a word processor or the internet?

I think that allows excellent scope for many forms of linux excluding the bleeding cutting edge stuff for specialist computer experts.