Reinstalling customized OS looking for cheats and tricks to easy restore system afterwards. :o)

[Marie SWE]

Hi all and apologies for barging in. This topic is very interesting to me lately since I seem to be prone to hard drive failures for various reasons. A more-or-less clone of the current setup would be perfect as it has undergone so many changes/fixes/improvements/etc in the last couple of years that I would never manage to reachieve should anything bad happen to it.

The application mentioned above - Systemback - sounded wonderful but after building and launching it the interface appears somehow confusing, options are not always clear on what their purpose is and the manual is of no help.

@rickNS says that the created image would fit in 4GB but that may only be true for a fresh installation with minimal additions. While exploring application's options I took a look at my current system and the outcome is this:
folder_sizes.png
Root partition: 75GB
Home folder: 54GB (resides in root)
Downloads folder: ~31.5GB (resides in /home)
Simple math results in ~43.5GB source files if I were to leave out the Downloads folder. Somehow I strongly doubt that can be squashed into 4GB.
Big problem is I don't have that much free space to even attempt a backup for testing purposes.

I'd like to know some specifics about rickNS's experience with this application, as in what setup source sizes were used and how large the resulting packages were - in other words an estimation on the compression ratios.

Hi Drugwash
It is okay for you to "for barging in" as it is my thread and i say it is okay.
I started this thread mainly for everyone to find lazy ways to reinstall linux systems.. so with a big discussion and with different attack angles on the problem, it is a bigger chance to find different ways to solve it.

As for your problem if your computer eats harddrives as snacks, there can be a power problem in your computers PSU or on the high power side.. in your house so to speak, so the computer gets a tiny power spike or if the voltage get a bit high or even to low.
If you have ungrounded sockets, it can create creep-currents that can shorten your hardwares lifespan.

For the solution for a quick recovery after a harddrive failure/system failure i would recommend Ventoy on a external harddrive and with clonezilla live.. So you can do a disk to image clone and store that image on the same external drive.
After you have made the ventoy disk resize the data partition so you make a third partition that you make as an ext4 partition where you can save the clonezilla images.
I have a Ventoydisk at 2TB with the third partition at 1,5TB so i can save the images for my laptops systemdisks for a fast system recovery if I'm not at home and can't use my PXE boot for recovery.
Just a tip.
https://www.ventoy.net
https://clonezilla.org/clonezilla-live.php

.

.

I'm just looking in a little quickie as i have a bit stressful week, so I do not have time to respond to everything and the other threads at the moment.

But I wanted to say that it's okay for others to join in, so the moderators don't have to wonder and think about how to act on this thread. As long it is about reinstall/recover/backup linux OS and tricks to fix the OS.
And i did put this thread under Chat about Linux, so every distro is okay to bring up.

[Drugwash]

This is what I use to show all manually installed programs, BUT I don't think it will include your "portable"packages, flatpaks, snaps etc. in /home

Unfortunately there's something missing or different here (Mint 19.2 Cinnamon):
gzip: /var/log/installer/initial-status.gz: No such file or directory
The list that comes up after that is way too long: 2526 items.
There are no flatpaks or snaps on my system, and there never will. But there's only a dozen "portable" applications in /home so no big deal... theoretically - half of them are browsers, complete with one or more profiles each.

The 60,000 number came from approximately the total number of available Debian packages.

Ah I see. Luckily I don't have all of them installed.

I would get a SATA to USB cable (about 5-6 bucks online) and use that spare HDD. and clone to it.

I would too... if I had any money at all. Too complicated, we shouldn't go there.
There already are three such adaptors connecting external HDDs to the notebook but all of those drives are full to the brim. The 5V line is also down to about 4.3V despite two external adapters powering the USB hubs; another adapter would most likely bring the whole thing down anyway.

Hi Drugwash
It is okay for you to "for barging in" as it is my thread and i say it is okay.

Thank you Marie. I believe we are both in search of the same thing. I know MX Linux has - or used to have - such tool but never got to the lengths of installing MX, customizing and then making an image of it. Unfortunately that tool would not be usable outside the MX environment.

My drives went down for different reasons. Many years ago they were old drives bought used and possibly with defects already creeping in. Recently (2-3 years ago) one external drive was knocked down by my kittens, lost everything. Last year or so got angry with the headphones disconnecting randomly and banged them against the notebook, which shook the HDD enough to produce a lot of bad sectors; saved most data but too bad the drive was no longer reliable.

Ventoy was a sad experience for me. Tried it recently on a couple older machines, both HP, and none would boot off of that Ventoy stick. Took it up to the devs and couldn't find any solution. Tried even building bootable sticks using Windows tools under Wine and gathered more dissapointment.

Funny thing is I've been running Windows 98SE for almost 20 years (last few 3-4 years mixed with XP usage) and never felt the need for a backup. Never reinstalled either, just restored registry about 3 or 4 times when things went really bad. I still have that machine around, the system folder creation date is somewhere around 2006 when it was first installed.

[Infidelus]

I've only skimmed through this thread and I'm a loooooonggg way from being a Linux expert but, as someone who also likes to do fresh installs, especially when there's a major upgrade release ... and because I tinker a lot and break things (thank goodness for Timeshift ), I made myself a few linked (not very good but mostly functional) shell scripts.

The base installation is manual as I haven't looked at how to automate manually setting partitions yet, but after that I use the main script to:

• Set up nfs (so I can get to my servers and create some mount points with autofs for shares I use regularly)

• Add the additional repositories I use

• Install the software I want

The main script also calls a couple of the installed LM applications to start so I can manually set them up (printers / Users etc) as I haven't looked at/worked out how to automate that yet.

The main script then starts calling some of the other scripts that I use to:

• Symlink folders to where I've backed up my settings so that when I reinstall all my custom settings are still there (there's even one for Christmas music so that doesn't play all year round )

• Use gsettings to set various LM settings the way I want them without manually having to go through the lot each time

• Use gio to set all my desktop shortcuts where I want them (I have my desktop folder symlinked to another folder so all my shortcuts are retained)

A lot of the above was only possible due to the users on this forum who pointed me in the right direction!

[Lady Fitzgerald]

I'm not sure I understand what you are wanting to do. Are you just wanting to restore your installation on a computer onto the same computer if something should ever go sideways?

[rickNS]

Unfortunately there's something missing or different here (Mint 19.2 Cinnamon):

Strange, that file should exist on ANY version of Mint 17, 18, 19, or 20 (and probably before, but I don't know that for sure).

You didn't happen to run bleachbit at some point, or some other cleaning ?

Ha, I just noticed that, that file does not exist on my custom install, no doubt due to the fact that the stuff in /var, deemed unnecessary was also not included, No problem I rsynced it over from the "original" virtual machine.

Apparently the only way to get it back is to copy it from another 19.2 system.

[Drugwash]

I'm not sure I understand what you are wanting to do. Are you just wanting to restore your installation on a computer onto the same computer if something should ever go sideways?

If you're not asking me then just disregard this.

Not sure about Marie but I for one have a sort of a mixed purpose in mind. Having an (almost) exact copy/clone of the current installation would be useful for both restoring current machine in the event of a bad system failure and for installing on any other machine as an already configured system.

Restoring current machine should be self-obvious. Installing on other machines would be useful for hardware comparison tests, for example, or for ruling out hardware defects between two identical machines. Or for providing a not-so-knowledgeable friend/relative with a known, tested setup which we would easily know how to fix/debug if or when needed. System admins may want to deploy such already configured system for a company or whatever. Other usages may be envisioned.

You didn't happen to run bleachbit at some point, or some other cleaning ?

Now that you mentioned it I vaguely recall getting rid of some (many) logs by following some advices found on the web. Also trimmed some settings while at it so there wouldn't be that many and too large at any time. There had been some problem that prompted it at the time, usually I don't delete files unless they somehow get in the way.
Would that file be essential in any way for the well functioning of the system or would it just provide some historical info?

[Lady Fitzgerald]

I'm not sure I understand what you are wanting to do. Are you just wanting to restore your installation on a computer onto the same computer if something should ever go sideways?

If you're not asking me then just disregard this. ...

No worries. I was asking Marie since I was wondering which of the scenarios you mentioned was the one (if not both) she was asking about.

[Marie SWE]

I have an idea to make my own custom install iso, since every 5years it's need to reinstall all computers do to EOL
But I do not know how to make a custom install iso in linux.... yet

Marie n SWE hi,

"yet" is the key word, I do exactly what you want to do...

To reinstall, because of a failed drive, or to duplicate (clone) other computers, I have been using Systemback since Mint 18 to create a custom "live" installer.
The tool works great, it copies everything, your programs, your .configs, everything, down to the last nut, and bolt. Very much a "clone" but better IMO for a couple of reasons. One, because this is an install you get to choose unique hostname (in case of duplicating on other machines), and username etc, whereas restoring a cloned image would have the same hostname. Another advantage is this whole thing can fit on a 4GB USB stick, and that is with at least 2 dozen extra programs, some larger ones too like virtualbox, google earth etc.

The program if interested is here;
https://github.com/BluewhaleRobot/systemback

This newest version seemed to take a long time to finish making the "sblive" file, but the installation time seems normal at about 7 minutes. Definitely way worth it as a complete backup, and to duplicate 3-4 computers like you have.

The last time I used it for Mint 20, I didn't even install to bare metal first, I downloaded Mint 20, booted it in Virtualbox, did the install there, added my extra programs, changed theme, brought in firefox (.mozilla) folder, gnote directory, my compiz config etc. once done, made the Systemback custom "Live" installer. Burn that to USB, then install to as many computers as I want.

One little "bug" maybe, is when booting your live USB, you probably get an error, something about cows...anyway just press Ctrl + D.
And when creating live system be sure to tick the box that says "include user data files", (for your own machines anyway).

I apologize if I'm a little stressed in my answer, but I only have short moments to answer now and then, while I sit and prepare a job for next week.

"yet" is the key word, yes it is and i know i will get there with time.. The problem is that i don't have the same patience now that I had in the 90's when computers was a hobby/interest and it was really fun to sit for 8-10 hours every day... and some days even 20-24 hours at the time in front of the computer just to learn new things and hacks.
Today, 25-30 years later... and after I started working with computers just before the millennium shift... I don't have that patience nowadays as I dislike computers and I don't have that same free time to sit at the computer and experiment every day to learn everything as I had in the 90's

System back sounds more like a backup/restore solution then a tool to grab personal settings and programs to restore in a new install.
If i step up from Debian8 to Debian11 it can break the system if you restore old system packages.

What i want to be able to make in the future is how to take a install.iso and modifying it so it almost becomes a new distro.
I have today a modified DE it is based on Xfce but different apps, so I have caja as file manager, i think have KDEs resource monitor and so on and so on... I have icons and some other things from LMDE cinnamon
So yes Xfce is the base, but that's it
I did post in my first post, how to solve the desktop theme environment and some settings, but that don't include Caja and so on.
Customizing is wonderful as you get the best of things... but it is a nightmare to recreate on a new install.
I can do customized windows install ISOs in my sleep (also OEM iso) But that doesn't help me a tiny bit, as Linux isn't windows. Ha Ha

So for now as i do not have the time on my side to learn it all.. so as i wrote in my first post. Quote:So I searching for some ways to cut some corners to save time and mental suffering.

But i will take a look at all your suggestions and tips as System back... Aptik.... Ansible, as soon as I get some time over to sit down and look through them all, what they do and how they works.
Time is a bit*h sometimes.

[Marie SWE]

mmmmm i know, that is my noob mistake that i didn't wrote everything one by one.

Also made that mistake moving from LM17 to LM18. Now I have a simple text file (saved on my backup drive) with a launcher on the desktop. Whenever I make any change I make a date/timestamped note of it - what I changed, how I installed it - software manager, deb, etc.

Code: Select all

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thu 24 Mar 2022 09:10:02 
nomachine update

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thu 31 Mar 2022 23:36:08 
galculator installed from sw mgr - reverse polish calculator

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tue 19 Apr 2022 18:21:23 
sw update, chromium and kernel and others
PIA updated

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mon 23 May 2022 23:31:22 
sw update, lots inc. kernel

For LM20, I wrote a script to take a vanilla install and set it up the way I want, desktop, software, printers, NAS, etc. Script runs to over a 1,000 lines (lots of repetition) and supporting files are > 1GB. Took me a couple of weeks on and off, so not for the faint hearted.

It was a nice and tightly list.
My notes are spread in around 10-20-30 different memory note-files... it's just a total chaos.
I do have a script in mind as a mentioned, but i don't know how that will work over time.. will it be able to use 5-6years in the future with next install... or must the script be modified again.

[Marie SWE]

...Yes, backup, backup and again backup... that is very important and you can never say it too many times, so it was good that you mentioned it.
Data recovery is expensive...

...and comes with no guarantee of success.

exactly... so people need to backup and backup.
I did some work with data recovery in the early 00s.. It is good money in that business.

I'm not sure I understand what you are wanting to do. Are you just wanting to restore your installation on a computer onto the same computer if something should ever go sideways?

If you're not asking me then just disregard this. ...

No worries. I was asking Marie since I was wondering which of the scenarios you mentioned was the one (if not both) she was asking about.

Okay.. It was a question to me
I thought I described my first post quite well, but English is a little harder than Swedish.
I did a stupid thing... i did a customized linux version.. as is a wonderful thing as it gets all the best things out of Linux.
The stupid thing is, that i like my version better then all out of the box versions there is, and it seems as that is a nightmare to recreate.
So my first post is still the problem-solving one.

I don't need system backup solutions if i get a harddisk failure or a total system meltdown failure that not timeshift can't fix.
I use disk image solutions through PXEboot at home or ventoy to my laptops for a portable solution if I am away. For windows i used a custom recovery partition as a mobile solution for my laptops.. I will fix that to linux too in the future, but for now clonzilla does the job.

[Marie SWE]

Hi Drugwash
It is okay for you to "for barging in" as it is my thread and i say it is okay.

Thank you Marie. I believe we are both in search of the same thing. I know MX Linux has - or used to have - such tool but never got to the lengths of installing MX, customizing and then making an image of it. Unfortunately that tool would not be usable outside the MX environment.

My drives went down for different reasons. Many years ago they were old drives bought used and possibly with defects already creeping in. Recently (2-3 years ago) one external drive was knocked down by my kittens, lost everything. Last year or so got angry with the headphones disconnecting randomly and banged them against the notebook, which shook the HDD enough to produce a lot of bad sectors; saved most data but too bad the drive was no longer reliable.

Ventoy was a sad experience for me. Tried it recently on a couple older machines, both HP, and none would boot off of that Ventoy stick. Took it up to the devs and couldn't find any solution. Tried even building bootable sticks using Windows tools under Wine and gathered more dissapointment.

Funny thing is I've been running Windows 98SE for almost 20 years (last few 3-4 years mixed with XP usage) and never felt the need for a backup. Never reinstalled either, just restored registry about 3 or 4 times when things went really bad. I still have that machine around, the system folder creation date is somewhere around 2006 when it was first installed.

MX Linux is based on Debian, so maybe it is possible to hijack(kidnap that program.. Linux is Linux so long it has the same root(debian in this case).. do you know what the tools name was?
The question is.. what does that tool do.. dose it make just do a recovery backup, or is it to get all custom settings in .conf files and so on.

Okay, so true... HDD is not made for using as a bouncing ball.
consider get a SSD for your laptop, they can withstand a little more violence from the users headphones frustrations.
And for your pets dragging the external disk in to the floor.. use duct-tape to tape them to the table.. The cables will break before the duct-tape gives. The mythbusters has done it all with duct-tape.

I have used Ventoy on new and old systems.. the oldest computer was a Intel dualcore E3600 with Legacy bios.
The only thing is that some operating system ISOs needs to be modified to boot legacy systems.. By renaming some EFI folders and one efibootfile

Backup is a really-really good thing to have on important files.. like photos, documents and so on. System backup is up to you, if you want to do a full install after a system failure.

I have a collection of old retro computers, so I have from intel8088cpu(with ms-dos and 5.25" floppydisks) up to modern computers. When i can't use them as daily drivers then they goes to my collection. Not all of them.. just one of generation.
Win98se was one of my favorites.. i had a modified 98se with NTFS read/write support as my friend that worked at microsoft made from taking things from win2000.. I don't know how he did as i don't understand programing.
win2000 was my absolutely favorite.. I just love that one.
and I still has XP on my backup printerserver(modified laptop) in case i need to take my server offline for maintenance.

[majpooper]

I am trying to skin that cat as well.
I think I do something similar . . . . I think, if I understand what you mean.
I will start out with LMDE and purge a good portion of the package set of stuff I don't want or never use.
Then I purge it of Cinnamon and re-install Cinnamon using

Code: Select all

--no-install-recommends

I don't install nearly as many software packages as you seem to indicate you do but a few.
I make a bunch of tweaks from Pjotr's web site, and then the cosmetics that I like - theme, icons etc.
So I do a lot of customization.

I started out with just notes but still found myself doing a lot of tedious finger boning at the CI.
I have been writing simple little scripts to do individual tasks. I added them all together into a
larger script but running them all together leaves a lot to be desired - it a word it is still buggy.
It has been more efficient so far to run them individually and fix what didn't work then to run them
all and going back and trying to figure what didn't run.

Some of my scripts simply do not work and I am still trying to figure out why. And there are are still a
lot of tasks that have to be done manually.

Here is an example of one of the scripts (there are 20 so far) that purges unwanted software packages and installs the set that I want

Code: Select all

#!/bin/bash

echo
echo STARTING REMOVING UNWANTED SOFTWARE PACKAGES
date
echo

sudo apt update
sudo apt upgrade -y
sudo apt autoremove -y


# Remove unwanted software packages 
# This can take a while to complete 
#
sudo apt purge -y file-roller gnome-calculator gucharmap bulky sticky onboard onboard-common seahorse celluloid
#
sudo apt purge -y redshift redshift-gtk pix pix-data pix-dbg drawing
# 
sudo apt purge -y caribou libsane-common sane-utils hexchat hexchat-common gnome-power-manager
#
sudo apt purge -y webapp-manager libreoffice libreoffice-* libridl-java libuno-* libunoil-java 
#
sudo apt purge -y libunoloader-java gnome-calendar hypnotix gnome-system-monitor
#
sudo apt purge -y libmpv1 librhythmbox-core10 mintreport gnome-logs
#
sudo apt purge -y hunspell-* hyphen-* mythes-* thunderbird transmission-common transmission-gtk
#
sudo apt purge -y mintbackup rsync baobab gamemode orca 
#
sudo rm -r /usr/share/icons/Mint-Y-Dark-*
#
sudo rm -r /etc/libreoffice
#
# Remove bloated cinnamon with a light version of cinnamon
#
sudo apt purge -y cinnamon cinnamon-* libcinnamon-*
sudo apt autoremove -y
sudo apt install -y --no-install-recommends cinnamon
#
sudo apt update
sudo apt upgrade -y
sudo apt autoremove -y
#
#Remove foreign lanuage fonts that are not needed - ignore warnings 
#
sudo apt purge -y fonts-* 

# clean up un-needed dependancies y
sudo apt autoremove -y
#

echo
echo REMOVED SOFTWARE COMPLETE
echo INSTALLING NEW SOFTWARE PACKAGES
date
echo

# Install new software
#
sudo apt install -y firejail gdebi xarchiver abiword gnumeric pulseaudio fakeroot evince simple-scan 
#
sudo apt install -y mousepad shotwell cheese gparted htop inxi dconf-editor make build-essential m4 gnome-disk-utility 
#
sudo apt install -y gnome-screenshot vlc gcc timeshift libglib2.0-dev libx11-dev dropbox
#
sudo apt install -y pavucontrol cups gimp backintime-common network-manager network-manager-gnome gnome-terminal

echo -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
echo 
echo NEW SOFTWARE INSTALL COMPLETE
echo STARTING SYSTEM UPDATE AND UPGRADE
date
echo
echo -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

# Update and upgrade all software to latest version
#
sudo apt update
sudo apt upgrade -y

# clean up un-needed dependancies y
sudo apt autoremove -y

echo -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
echo
echo SYSTEM UPDATE AND UPGRADE COMPLETE
date
echo
echo -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

exit

[rickNS]

MX Linux is based on Debian, so maybe it is possible to hijack(kidnap that program.. Linux is Linux so long it has the same root(debian in this case).. do you know what the tools name was?
The question is.. what does that tool do.. dose it make just do a recovery backup, or is it to get all custom settings in .conf files and so on.

The program is MX Remaster , and no you can't "hijack" it, I tried. I went down Dependency Hell Road, till I hit a dead end.
What it does is pretty clear by just opening the program.

[rickNS]

System back sounds more like a backup/restore solution then a tool to grab personal settings and programs to restore in a new install.

I like (not) how people who have not used a program, make assumptions of what it is, or is not, or what it does, or does not do.

So, from someone who has used it, it is both. It is a System Backup tool, it takes system snapshots, much like timeshift in that regard, But it can also do more, like creating a 'live' system, bootable to run 'live', and installable from the current running system. Which is amazing in it's own right, as most tools that do anything remotely as complicated require to be booted from separate media. As I said before an exact clone down to last nut, and bolt. For the reasons I also gave earlier, it is IMO the best backup/cloning solution I personally have ever seen.

Starting to wish I had not brought it up.

It is a Debian system with DE Xfce as base and the dark purple theme from LMDE3 and some fonts i think... and there are parts taken from Mate, Gnome and Kde

Given you don't seem to like any DE and run a franken-mix of all 4, I expect you'll find fault with about any suggestion. You might like your system, but it must be the big mess under the hood.

Further, you say you have no time, yet have made 140+ posts in 13 days ?

I've seen the light, and think I'm done here.

[Marie SWE]

System back sounds more like a backup/restore solution then a tool to grab personal settings and programs to restore in a new install.

I like (not) how people who have not used a program, make assumptions of what it is, or is not, or what it does, or does not do.

First of all... i wrote it sounds like..
and if you noticed at the end of my post to you i did wrote
Quote: "" I will take a look at all your suggestions and tips as System back... Aptik.... Ansible, as soon as I get some time over to sit down and look through them all, what they do and how they works.""
Is that to make an assumption?? I meant it sounds like(the name of the program).. not that it is, as I had not yet had taken a look on them yet.. I did clearly wrote, I will take a look at all your suggestions when I have time.

So, from someone who has used it, it is both. It is a System Backup tool, it takes system snapshots, much like timeshift in that regard, But it can also do more, like creating a 'live' system, bootable to run 'live', and installable from the current running system. Which is amazing in it's own right, as most tools that do anything remotely as complicated require to be booted from separate media. As I said before an exact clone down to last nut, and bolt. For the reasons I also gave earlier, it is IMO the best backup/cloning solution I personally have ever seen.
ksnip220526-0830.jpg

Starting to wish I had not brought it up.

Others can have use of your tip. It is okay if you don't want to help me, i don't keep hard feelings.
It is hard to write and describe things in a humble way and in a foreign language.

It is a Debian system with DE Xfce as base and the dark purple theme from LMDE3 and some fonts i think... and there are parts taken from Mate, Gnome and Kde

Given you don't seem to like any DE and run a franken-mix of all 4, I expect you'll find fault with about any suggestion. You might like your system, but it must be the big mess under the hood.

Further, you say you have no time, yet have made 140+ posts in 13 days ?

I've seen the light, and think I'm done here.

Second of all..... I think you need to check my post history a bit better.
I was gone between the 16th and 25th so 0post and no login as at was overwhelm with work so I did not even have time to log in.. i worked and slept for 8days and the last day the 9th day i was just so tired that just laid in front of my TV the whole day I even skipped dinner that day.
and 75post of my total of 150 post on this forum was made before year 2022 so what is 150-75= ??? . . . is that 140+posts
My first post this year was made may 5th and my last post was made May 26th at 12:55am.. So 21days-9days i was gone is 12 so you did almost get it right on that one
I also work a lot from home ,and I do take brakes and check in here and make posts then.
To make a post is fast thing or of it is a long post, it's possible to write 2min there and 2min here... to evaluate a program is not fast thing and you cant make it a good evaluation by 2min here and there when doalbooting.

Then you can't learn Linux by just running out of the box installs and use it for office and browsing internet and make a sudo command here and there... It is the big tweaks and problem solving you learn from and when you setup complex systems.
Almost everyone can do an install and recover a out of the box OS. I learn that the first day on linux.


So your quote: "but it must be the big mess under the hood." and perhaps it is or it ain't, and the worst thing is that you don't know if it is or not.
Yes I still learning as you also probably does and I openly writes that that I see myself as still a noob in Linux, as linux is a extremely complex system compere to Mac and Win.
And I know I will get as good as most of you Linux veterans... I just need more time.. and as I'm not ready to quit my job yet and give up my social life.. so I must have to settle for learning a little now and then when time allows it, as I don't have 10 hours a day to sit with Linux as you perhaps have... and I need cut some corners to make things work before I have time to learn things from the ground up.
Perhaps you have Linux and your computer as a hobby and that is okay.. and you may be okay with it can take 10-20hours downtime now and then, I don't know... I have most of my computer as a work tools.. I need so sort downtime as possible, that's why I want to learn tricks how to cut corners and save time... and then later learn it from the ground up when I have time.

'
So feel free to give me a little shit if I say something stupid, I can take that....
But make sure that you have the facts right before you claim that I come up with lots of assumptions and that I should have made all my forum posts on linux mint in 13 days.

Have a nice day.

[RollyShed]

Then you can't learn Linux by just running out of the box installs and use it for office and browsing internet

But you can use it for years that way. That's how all of those I know use it. Maybe define "learn".

NOTE - "Use it".

as linux is a extremely complex system compared to Mac and Win.

It is an extremely simple system compared with those ones if a person wants to USE it.

I install it for people (40+ and more to do soon) who want a simple system to use. Questions? Those questions that would be asked if using any system, questions relating to doing a document or using the web browser to get something done.

[rickNS]

Have a nice day.

Quite predictable.
Marie SWE > Ignore list (you already went).
have a nice day.

[rickNS]

It is an extremely simple system compared with those ones if a person wants to USE it.

Some people insist on over complicating their lives, perhaps due to OCD or some such.
The prime example is bringing in any KDE element into other DE's, it just brings in SO much extra crap. To each their own, and good luck to them.

[Marie SWE]

Then you can't learn Linux by just running out of the box installs and use it for office and browsing internet

But you can use it for years that way. That's how all of those I know use it. Maybe define "learn".

NOTE - "Use it".

So true, so true. and I think that's fine, totally okay, and nice as Linux out of the box is relativity easy to use compere to just 10-15years ago. every positive word i can use.

But that wasn't the discussion rickNS and I had about me and that i don't settle with out of the box solutions.
My goal with Linux is to know how linux works from the core-out as a few veterans in here know Linux.. so I in the future know what's needed and not for my needs and usage, or if i do an install to someone else, to be able to do a nice customized install to just that persons needs. To know what is the systems strengths and weaknesses that perhaps needs future attention or to keep an eye on.
That is my future goal with Linux.

as linux is a extremely complex system compared to Mac and Win.

It is an extremely simple system compared with those ones if a person wants to USE it.

I install it for people (40+ and more to do soon) who want a simple system to use. Questions? Those questions that would be asked if using any system, questions relating to doing a document or using the web browser to get something done.

I installed Linux Mint 20.1 to my 77year old mother.. and she have used it for a year now. No trouble, more than the laptop sound don't automatically switches over to the television when she connect the HDMI cable. So I did write a paper guide how to manually switch over to HDMI sound.
Since she start use Mint instead of windows, my support job have been like a nice fresh breeze.. No calls about AV-popups or update problems.
So yes.. everyone non-technical can use Linux without problems.

It only get extremely complicated when you do complicated setups. And that was my point.. In Mac and Win you have a lot of special GUIs to modify or setup things.. in Linux you have some, but some things is only Terminal commands and filehacks solutions.

[Marie SWE]

Have a nice day.

Quite predictable.
Marie SWE > Ignore list (you already went).
have a nice day.

It is an extremely simple system compared with those ones if a person wants to USE it.

Some people insist on over complicating their lives, perhaps due to OCD or some such.
The prime example is bringing in any KDE element into other DE's, it just brings in SO much extra crap. To each their own, and good luck to them.

so incredibly mature
First give me shit for something i didn't when confronted just ignore/block me and then talk shit after the block.
is this a 12 year old? or an adult.

rickNS.... read this post. viewtopic.php?p=2174122#p2174122
or even better read the whole thread. viewtopic.php?f=58&t=363978 The Eternal Battle Noobs vs Power Users...


I'm not going to ignore/block you, as I can take criticism.. Criticism is what we learn from and evolves of.
And I can take some shit if I write something stupid or is a bit provocative.. "IF" I deserve it, and i didn't by you in that post.