VIM, who is it really for?

[feffer]

Over the years, I have definitely come across distributions which didn't include actual Vim, but most do at least come with Vim Tiny (a la Vi). So, they do exist!...

Mint, Ubuntu, LMDE and probably many others come with vim-tiny. If you're used to standard Vim, the "tiny" one will ball you up. Better to delete it immediately and install the full 30 mb version...much better!

[dave0808]

I don't think it would have killed the lazy developers of vim to put an info belt at the bottom of the interface with the available keyboard commands.

So you're allowed to have your own opinion but because the developers have one that differs from yours, they're lazy?!

[MurphCID]

Nope, still don't have it:
murph@murph-lemurpro:~$ vim
Command 'vim' not found, but can be installed with:
sudo apt install vim # version 2:8.2.3995-1ubuntu2.1, or
sudo apt install vim-tiny # version 2:8.2.3995-1ubuntu2.1
sudo apt install neovim # version 0.6.1-3
sudo apt install vim-athena # version 2:8.2.3995-1ubuntu2
sudo apt install vim-gtk3 # version 2:8.2.3995-1ubuntu2
sudo apt install vim-nox # version 2:8.2.3995-1ubuntu2
murph@murph-lemurpro:~$

[MurphCID]

I don't think it would have killed the lazy developers of vim to put an info belt at the bottom of the interface with the available keyboard commands.

+1000! I completely agree with you here. How hard would it be to do what Nano does and put some commands at the bottom of the screen? It could still be done.

[Termy]

Again, Vim comes with vimtutor(1), an extensive help system, and, upon loading Vim, tells you some initial commands, such as how to quit. To repeat myself once more: Vim is an advanced modal text editor for power users and/or programmers who want to be as efficient as possible while having incredible and extensible capabilities in the editor. It's not for someone's 100-year-old nan who only loads up their computer to check Facebook. I dunno how else to word it. Linux gives us the freedom to choose what we want, so enjoy whatever program you use. I think Nano's a cool program, anyway. I'm out, because I feel like this is mostly an anti-Vim echo chamber.

[jmorris84]

Nope, still don't have it:
murph@murph-lemurpro:~$ vim
Command 'vim' not found, but can be installed with:
sudo apt install vim # version 2:8.2.3995-1ubuntu2.1, or
sudo apt install vim-tiny # version 2:8.2.3995-1ubuntu2.1
sudo apt install neovim # version 0.6.1-3
sudo apt install vim-athena # version 2:8.2.3995-1ubuntu2
sudo apt install vim-gtk3 # version 2:8.2.3995-1ubuntu2
sudo apt install vim-nox # version 2:8.2.3995-1ubuntu2
murph@murph-lemurpro:~$

That's very interesting. I've used a nice amount of Mint versions and never had to go out of my way to install vim or vi. Distrowatch even has it listed as an included package for Mint. You seem to be in a unique situation.

[Moem]

You seem to be in a unique situation.

If he is, then I am too (which makes it not so unique).
I don't have VIM installed and I intend to keep it that way. The way I see it is if you have to ask who it's for, then it's not for you.

[jmorris84]

You seem to be in a unique situation.

If he is, then I am too (which makes it not so unique).
I don't have VIM installed and I intend to keep it that way. The way I see it is if you have to ask who it's for, then it's not for you.

Yeah that's interesting. It's listed as a package that comes with all releases of Mint. Wonder why some times it deploys and other times it doesn't.

I certainly asked about vi/vim before using it and it turns out it was for me!

[MurphCID]

That's very interesting. I've used a nice amount of Mint versions and never had to go out of my way to install vim or vi. Distrowatch even has it listed as an included package for Mint. You seem to be in a unique situation.

And on all of my laptops it is a clean install of Mint 21.

[jmorris84]

That's very interesting. I've used a nice amount of Mint versions and never had to go out of my way to install vim or vi. Distrowatch even has it listed as an included package for Mint. You seem to be in a unique situation.

And on all of my laptops it is a clean install of Mint 21.

How about vi? Just curious.

[MurphCID]

That's very interesting. I've used a nice amount of Mint versions and never had to go out of my way to install vim or vi. Distrowatch even has it listed as an included package for Mint. You seem to be in a unique situation.

And on all of my laptops it is a clean install of Mint 21.

How about vi? Just curious.

Let me check. Stand by: Really odd it shows this when I type in VI:

~
~ VIM - Vi IMproved
~
~ version 8.2.4919
~ by Bram Moolenaar et al.
~ Modified by team+vim@tracker.debian.org
~ Vim is open source and freely distributable
~
~ Become a registered Vim user!
~ type :help register<Enter> for information
~
~ type :q<Enter> to exit
~ type :help<Enter> or <F1> for on-line help
~ type :help version8<Enter> for version info
~
~ Running in Vi compatible mode
~ type :set nocp<Enter> for Vim defaults
~ type :help cp-default<Enter> for info on this
~
~
~
How odd.

[jmorris84]

And on all of my laptops it is a clean install of Mint 21.

How about vi? Just curious.

Let me check. Stand by: Really odd it shows this when I type in VI:

~
~ VIM - Vi IMproved
~
~ version 8.2.4919
~ by Bram Moolenaar et al.
~ Modified by team+vim@tracker.debian.org
~ Vim is open source and freely distributable
~
~ Become a registered Vim user!
~ type :help register<Enter> for information
~
~ type :q<Enter> to exit
~ type :help<Enter> or <F1> for on-line help
~ type :help version8<Enter> for version info
~
~ Running in Vi compatible mode
~ type :set nocp<Enter> for Vim defaults
~ type :help cp-default<Enter> for info on this
~
~
~
How odd.

Sweet! And look at that, if you type :help<enter> you get a list of useful commands and additional topics to help learn to use and navigate the tool just like Valsodar was looking for. You're off to the races now. Enjoy!

[Termy]

[...]

When you have the regular Vim installed, running vi will just load up Vim — I guess, because of all the old lot who're so stuck in their ways. However, if you don't have regular Vim installed but do have just Vim Tiny installed, running vi will load up Vim Tiny, which is essentially a super cut-down version of Vim, in order to operate as close to the old Vi (short for Visual) as possible.

[MurphCID]

Ok now I am really confused. When I type VI, I get VIm, but when I type VIM it shows nothing loaded? I am going to have to look further into this. Now I am curious because I never loaded VIM, and I do not remember loading VIM tiny either, now I wonder if ed is installed as well?

[jmorris84]

Ok now I am really confused. When I type VI, I get VIm, but when I type VIM it shows nothing loaded? I am going to have to look further into this. Now I am curious because I never loaded VIM, and I do not remember loading VIM tiny either, now I wonder if ed is installed as well?

I'm not at a Ubuntu machine at the moment but I think if you type apt list --installed | grep 'vi' you can look for the package that is installed on your machine. I bet it is vim-minimal or something similar. Perhaps that is what comes standard with Mint 21 these days.

[Termy]

[...]

If you type `vim` but you get a command not found, yet typing `vi` brings up Vim Tiny (Vim in compatibility mode), then it's likely because you've got only Vim Tiny and not the full Vim installed.

[ajgreeny]

I'm also confused!

Searching in synaptic there is no vi package available but there is vim and vim-common and vim-tiny.

I do not have vim installed but if I use the command vi it is vim which opens in the terminal. Weird or what? Is it actually vim-tiny? I believe so.

Totally baffling, but probably because I have never used it or needed to do so; in fact having just opened vim-tiny(?) with the vi command I could not find any way in terminal to show help or anything else so I just closed the terminal, undoubtedly not the way vi or vim should be shutdown.
Sorry to you people who understand it and can use it, but personally it is far too much of a complication that I don't need.

I'll stick with nano or one of the GUI text editors. They work in a much more logical manner!

The command

Code: Select all

apt list --installed | grep 'vi'

shows a mass of packages which include vi in their names but also shows vim-common and vim-tiny are installed.

[Termy]

[...]

The old Vi was abandoned in favor of the far superior Vim working in compatibility mode (AKA: Vim Tiny), hence why you won't find the package 'vi' in the repositories. As I mentioned above, these days, when you run vi, it'll bring up either Vim Tiny or the full Vim. If you have only Vim Tiny installed, then Vim Tiny will run. If you have the full Vim installed, then it will run. If you have the full Vim installed, you can also enter vim to run Vim, and from what I remember, you cannot (by default) execute vim if you only have Vim Tiny installed, unless that changed in recent times.

BTW, to quit Vim, you can enter :q from Normal mode — especially, not from Insert mode.

[MurphCID]

Ok now I am really confused. When I type VI, I get VIm, but when I type VIM it shows nothing loaded? I am going to have to look further into this. Now I am curious because I never loaded VIM, and I do not remember loading VIM tiny either, now I wonder if ed is installed as well?

I'm not at a Ubuntu machine at the moment but I think if you type apt list --installed | grep 'vi' you can look for the package that is installed on your machine. I bet it is vim-minimal or something similar. Perhaps that is what comes standard with Mint 21 these days.

Ok, I was starting to get worried that somehow I had done something and loaded something I was not meaning to load. It concerned me a bit that I had somehow messed up.

[jmorris84]

Ok now I am really confused. When I type VI, I get VIm, but when I type VIM it shows nothing loaded? I am going to have to look further into this. Now I am curious because I never loaded VIM, and I do not remember loading VIM tiny either, now I wonder if ed is installed as well?

I'm not at a Ubuntu machine at the moment but I think if you type apt list --installed | grep 'vi' you can look for the package that is installed on your machine. I bet it is vim-minimal or something similar. Perhaps that is what comes standard with Mint 21 these days.

Ok, I was starting to get worried that somehow I had done something and loaded something I was not meaning to load. It concerned me a bit that I had somehow messed up.

All good. This is why I was confused that you and others claimed to have no traces of vi/vim on your system at all, since most Linux distros come packaged with it.