Will cars be the next computers we reboot?

[Petermint]

Everything I use with a computer inside needs the occasional reboot. I read about car entertainment systems needing a reboot. Will our electric cars suddenly freeze on the highway in the middle of overtaking a truck? Everything locked up including the new style electronic steering and electronic brakes. No way to slow down. No way to steer back into the correct lane.

I can see us stopping on the wrong lane, hoping there are no cars coming the other way, and trying to disconnect the battery to force a reboot.

Then there will be the Tesla message on the screen

Your subscription to the Turn left package has just expired. Turn right and Apply brakes[/b will expire in 10 microseconds.]

Will there be root kits available to run Linux without the spyware and tracking?

[all41]

And as a bonus your car will be tracked and geo-located---for free

[Hoser Rob]

Regular internal combustion engines are already run by a computer in the ECU and have been for years. The computer practically is the engine.

However, an engine ECU is basically a closed system, meaning the inputs and outputs are minimized and tightly specced and hence predictable. A closed system can be made reliable in a way that's just impossible with an open system (like any desktop OS). EVs arre no different. Of course, the infotainment system is a different matter.

[Pjotr]

As most (or even all) electrical vehicles are (as far as I know) always connected to the internet, the risk is real. Both of unwanted intervention by the manufacturer and of a hijack by malware. The latter is the national or even international disaster waiting to happen.

Which is why I prefer a conventional car with an offline closed motor management computer in it. And why I try to keep most "smart" appliances out of my house, or only in offline mode. No need for my bloody refrigerator to be online, thanks.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Car manufacturers are already coming out with subscription services, besides satellite radio and Onstar, to be able to use certain features, such as heated seats. I'm hanging onto my old truck as long as I can. I hope I die before it does.

[Pjotr]

Car manufacturers are already coming out with subscription services, besides satellite radio and Onstar, to be able to use certain features, such as heated seats.

Good God. Why do consumers accept this?

Personally, I'd refuse to buy a car that would require internet connection to unlock quite unrelated features like heated seats. The car industry has gone crazy....

As it stands, I'm the happy owner of a 22 year old Toyota Yaris. Which I intend to keep using until it falls apart. In a decade or two, I expect.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Car manufacturers are already coming out with subscription services, besides satellite radio and Onstar, to be able to use certain features, such as heated seats.

Good God. Why do consumers accept this? ...

Good question. Mayhap because they don't have a choice?

...Personally, I'd refuse to buy a car that would require internet connection to unlock quite unrelated features like heated seats. The car industry has gone crazy...

I totally agree! Big business has gotten too greedy and too big for their britches.

[Moem]

As most (or even all) electrical vehicles are (as far as I know) always connected to the internet

Most? Maybe. All? No. Ours is not.

[RollyShed]

As most (or even all) electrical vehicles are (as far as I know) always connected to the internet,

How? As we can't get the internet over a large area of the country, how can a car do it? No cell phone coverage so that isn't an option either.

The next question, who pays for the car's internet connection?

[RollyShed]

such as heated seats.

Nothing wrong with heated seats on a cold night, especially after coming out of a warm building.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

such as heated seats.

Nothing wrong with heated seats on a cold night, especially after coming out of a warm building.

Unless you have to pay a subscription to use them. It's happening on some cars.

[RollyShed]

such as heated seats.

Nothing wrong with heated seats on a cold night, especially after coming out of a warm building.

Unless you have to pay a subscription to use them. It's happening on some cars.

It sounds like a "Do not buy this car" thing.
What ever happened to my 1954 Morris Minor when I need it? OK, rust, rust, rust...

[Pippin]

As most (or even all) electrical vehicles are (as far as I know) always connected to the internet,

How? As we can't get the internet over a large area of the country, how can a car do it?

Ever heard of Musk.....?

[jmorris84]

Everything I use with a computer inside needs the occasional reboot.

Do you reboot your microwave? Washing machine? Digital clock? Refrigerator? Do you reboot your car now? Cars already have microcontrollers that make up their embedded system. Why all of a sudden will this change as cars advance?

[RollyShed]

As most (or even all) electrical vehicles are (as far as I know) always connected to the internet,

How? As we can't get the internet over a large area of the country, how can a car do it?

Ever heard of Musk.....?

Do you know how much that would cost per month? It is cheaper running a petrol car than using his satellites.

[Petermint]

Do you reboot your microwave?

Most of the quoted devices use an ASIC chip. Development might be on a computer but implementation is on dedicated silicon. Plus most of the devices have a fixed range of inputs and outputs. Our washing machine selects the water level based on some test but all the other "logic" is fixed.

LG is busy replacing things that work with their "fuzzy logic" which means you select a wash cycle and it does something else. They spend extra money on a computer chip to make the device inaccurate. Currently there are many choices where the silicon is not out of your control.

Volkswagen leads the way into the future of cars. Their special code to fake fuel consumption is a classic. On our roads, there were lives put at risk because the highway fuel consumption test speed is the same as some of our major commuting roads. There were a mass of near death incidents where VWs suddenly lost power and the car behind ... A reason I do not buy any of the twelve brands VW puts on their cars in Australia. A good reason to buy Ferrari instead of the VW Lamborghini.

Science fiction stories predicted one aspect of the computer controlled automated cars. To kidnap a passenger, you just step in front of the car and the car stops automatically. Your accomplices can then do anything to the people inside. Help would have a difficult time arriving because your side of the road is blocked to all traffic until you step away from the front of the car and the other side of the road is blocked by Tik Tokers filming the abduction.

[jmorris84]

Do you reboot your microwave?

Most of the quoted devices use an ASIC chip. Development might be on a computer but implementation is on dedicated silicon. Plus most of the devices have a fixed range of inputs and outputs. Our washing machine selects the water level based on some test but all the other "logic" is fixed.

LG is busy replacing things that work with their "fuzzy logic" which means you select a wash cycle and it does something else. They spend extra money on a computer chip to make the device inaccurate. Currently there are many choices where the silicon is not out of your control.

Volkswagen leads the way into the future of cars. Their special code to fake fuel consumption is a classic. On our roads, there were lives put at risk because the highway fuel consumption test speed is the same as some of our major commuting roads. There were a mass of near death incidents where VWs suddenly lost power and the car behind ... A reason I do not buy any of the twelve brands VW puts on their cars in Australia. A good reason to buy Ferrari instead of the VW Lamborghini.

Science fiction stories predicted one aspect of the computer controlled automated cars. To kidnap a passenger, you just step in front of the car and the car stops automatically. Your accomplices can then do anything to the people inside. Help would have a difficult time arriving because your side of the road is blocked to all traffic until you step away from the front of the car and the other side of the road is blocked by Tik Tokers filming the abduction.

Not sure what your point is? I was just explaining that you are most likely using devices driven by a computer that in fact don't need to be rebooted, cars included.

[Petermint]

Comparing a fixed function device to a computer is like comparing the firmware in a USB chip to Linux OS. The fixed device either works or does not and never changes for the life of the product. The VW example included a lot of software that was not related to making the car work and, in many cases, made the car more dangerous. That extra software was never tested and customers were not warned that VW was delivering something not even in the beta testing stage.

If they switched to something like the Debian approach, you could choose stable, testing, etc.

Linking an Internet connected entertainment system to the engine controls is an obvious error waiting to be exploited.

A Tesla car is updated randomly and may change the way your car works while you are driving and with no warning. The Tesla car functionality is already subject to ransom demands from Tesla when you buy a used Tesla. The Tesla corporation are treating you the same as Russia treats its enemies. I do not see how anyone could trust them out on the road.

[jmorris84]

Comparing a fixed function device to a computer is like comparing the firmware in a USB chip to Linux OS. The fixed device either works or does not and never changes for the life of the product. The VW example included a lot of software that was not related to making the car work and, in many cases, made the car more dangerous. That extra software was never tested and customers were not warned that VW was delivering something not even in the beta testing stage.

If they switched to something like the Debian approach, you could choose stable, testing, etc.

Linking an Internet connected entertainment system to the engine controls is an obvious error waiting to be exploited.

A Tesla car is updated randomly and may change the way your car works while you are driving and with no warning. The Tesla car functionality is already subject to ransom demands from Tesla when you buy a used Tesla. The Tesla corporation are treating you the same as Russia treats its enemies. I do not see how anyone could trust them out on the road.

I was just referring to your point about needing to reboot the car to make it operable after it runs an update. I've yet to hear that this is necessary or will be necessary, even with all of the added software going into vehicles now. But I'm with you, if for some reason we do get to this point, I'll be staying very far away.

[Portreve]

This thread got me to wondering, so I decided to take a look at Hyundai, since I presently own an Elantra (2016 model). I could not find any reference to any subscription-based functionality on any of their cars. And I agree: I would not buy a car which made me pay a subscription for normal car functionality. I understand satellite radio and continuously-updated GPS maps might be a different story, but if it's a car function and not a media function, then subscription is completely off the table.