Why do new people give up on Linux?

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majpooper
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by majpooper »

bob466 wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:16 pm
A very good question...many say "It's too hard" and for some it is because they don't want to learn. Image

However not all Forum members are overly friendly and helpful...some are just sarcastic bullies who think they can victimise other members for what ever reason. Image This would turn some back to Windoze or at least to another Forum...which is very sad and not the Linux way. Image
I don't know about the "sarcastic bullies who think they can victimise other members for what ever reason" thing. I think the forum is pretty friendly to noobs actually. The really heated discussions in my experience have been between "old timers" who have been around the forum for quite a while and have usually been about politics which is a "no no" and get shut down pretty quickly by the Mods.

On occasion I have seen folks get testy when an OP cops an attitude either about linux or that their demands and expectations for support are not getting met. And then there are the flat out trolls who come on to tell the world how linux sucks or Windows is better than linux etc. Yeah - the trolls tend to get flamed.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Lucap »

Why do new people give up on Linux?
Wine doesn't play call of duty... :D
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by jShumway00 »

Okay, I speak from personal experience, the first time I tried Linux was way back in 2015 I think. It was with Ubuntu back then, I installed it on my Aunt's Laptop since she wanted a new Operating System since it was slow and had Windows Vista on it. So, I got to work and I got it installed then I couldn't find anything on how to fix the Wi-Fi card problem. After a few weeks of searching the web I finally found something to help me. It was a very difficult experience, especially since the only way I could search the web for answers was at either the library with their computers or with my phone at some public Wi-Fi. Interestingly enough I did eventually get it working. And that's the end of that story, basically I just wished their was more offline resources is all.

My second experience with Linux went fairly smoothly; I was at work in the Technology Department of my School and they helped me install Ubuntu on a computer that my High School Principal gave me (he gave me two computers, both of which I still have today). It was great.

My third experience with Linux wasn't a good first impression for Zorin OS. I tried to install it and it broke my Laptop's install of Windows 10. So, I had to wipe my entire drive somehow and move on. I think it was mostly caused by user error and me not being careful with how I installed Zorin. At least I backed up my documents beforehand...

Following my bad experience with Zorin OS, I went on to try out Linux Mint. I knew my internet wouldn't be able to handle downloading the large ISO, so I decided I'd try buying a pre-made boot drive with it already on it from the internet. I searched the web aggressively with my other computer only to find a link to a seemingly legit website where they said they wouldn't be selling any more boot drives any more (I forget why). So, I looked on the next best thing (I was a little weary about though) Amazon! And I surprisingly found a good boot drive from there and ordered it. Which brings us to my fourth experience with Linux, this time with Linux Mint and I got the flash drive and plugged it in. Although it wouldn't work, and I couldn't for the life of me figure out why. So, I gave up for a few months out of frustration.

My final and most recent experience with Linux happened yesterday. I decided to try and figure it out since I wanted to try and split rendering loads between my currently active and less powerful windows machine (it's older) and my laptop, but I needed a capable operating system to do so. I grabbed that Linux Mint boot drive (that I thought didn't work) and decided to try it again. This time I was looking in the BIOS I took notice of the fact that in the boot settings there was a Legacy option. So, I enabled that option and walla' it worked! It loaded straight into the Linux Mint OS, so I could try it out. Now keep in mind this spanned the course of multiple hours before I actually noticed the Legacy option. I then searched and searched for solutions to the Wi-Fi card issue (which I was experiencing again) and I finally I just decided to search the house for a Ethernet cable and hook it up to the router. I ran the driver thing and it found the driver. I installed it, updated Linux Mint and the operating system still works. I am using it at this moment to type this out.

Mostly I think a lot of newbie Linux users quit out of frustration.
Salutations good sir/ma'am,
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by t42 »

Reading jShumway00's fair description of the new LInux user problems I just remembered how many times I helped last week my colleagues with their 'absolutely unsolvable' Windows problems, the latest ones how to disable Cortana and how to install some application.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by majpooper »

jShumway00 wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:44 pm
Okay, I speak from personal experience . . . .
Mostly I think a lot of newbie Linux users quit out of frustration.
Although anecdotal a vivid description and great example of the problem. How many new would be linux users would even get past the first fiasco that jShumway00experienced before giving up on linux. I found the Zorin episode interesting because I thought the $39 24/7 phone support for new installs business model was designed to overcome the frustration factor - I guess not. Short of OEM linux pre-installed on new hardware linux is not going to compete as a DIY competitor to pre-installed Windows and Mac OS. The reality is most new users just want to shove in a USB or DVD and make some mouse clicks because that's how they "do it" with Windows or Mac.

jShumway00 aptly points out a few very basic obstacles that cause new people to give up on linux;
1.) most non-savvy computer users are not even going to know how to burn a bootable .iso USB/DVD.
2.) and if they do get a bootable .iso chances are there will be installation issues. How many of those folks even know what a BIOS is? And if it's a Mac . . . .
3.) and somehow if they get it installed but they have Realtec WiFi or Nvidia driver issues or need to set up a home network or keep getting a black screen or so on and so forth they have no idea where to get support let alone how to even articulate their issue.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by RollyShed »

Here with the many installations, I do them and the "customer" gets a going computer, often with an SSD.

As for Windows - today a Windows user with a new HP printer. I went round (by bicycle, obviously) and checked it out, got the right WiFi password, checked my laptop could use it and tried loading the printer driver on to the Windows machine. In the meantime, a test document using LibreOffice on my laptop, USBed to the printer instantly printed. His Windows? Couldn't even get it to say anything to the printer. Even with LibreOffice loaded, still nothing. A problem for next week which most likely will be solved by fitting an SSD with Mint.

Windows boot time? Minutes, lots and lots of them. Mint on an SSD? About 28 seconds.

Next week there will be another Linux user.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by antikythera »

majpooper wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:46 pm
I found the Zorin episode interesting because I thought the $39 24/7 phone support for new installs business model was designed to overcome the frustration factor - I guess not.
It certainly would be if they paid the optional fee for Zorin Ultimate and made the phone call before installing and still managed to lose W10 access.

Zorin Core and Zorin Lite can be downloaded and installed for nothing by an end user on their own. If you go for these instead of Ultimate, you are not completely on your own though. You still have similar levels of support to Mint via their free to access forums and documentation. The forums also contain a thread listing the missing applications from Core or Lite compared to Ultimate and how to add the ones users want.

https://zorinos.com/download/#compare
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by majpooper »

antikythera wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:05 am
majpooper wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:46 pm
I found the Zorin episode interesting because I thought the $39 24/7 phone support for new installs business model was designed to overcome the frustration factor - I guess not.
It certainly would be if they paid the optional fee for Zorin Ultimate and made the phone call before installing and still managed to lose W10 access.

Zorin Core and Zorin Lite can be downloaded and installed for nothing by an end user on their own. If you go for these instead of Ultimate, you are not completely on your own though. You still have similar levels of support to Mint via their free to access forums and documentation. The forums also contain a thread listing the missing applications from Core or Lite compared to Ultimate and how to add the ones users want.

https://zorinos.com/download/#compare
I played with the freebee Zorin Core and Lite .iso in a VM. I was impressed that they were polished and the installer did a few "extra" things that a new "non-computer savvy" person would find helpful. And Zorin admittedly has a what I guess can be perceived as a more modern default theme choices than Mint, Ubuntu, Debian etc. So if everything installs OK a new " non-computer savvy" person has a nice looking Ubuntu based OS OOB. The operative word being "IF" . . . . right? In other words freebee Zorin does no more to address newbee frustration with linux than does Mint or any other linux distro if they don't know how to burn an image or address BIOS issues or . . . .
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by majpooper »

RollyShed wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:31 am
Here with the many installations, I do them and the "customer" gets a going computer, often with an SSD.

As for Windows - today a Windows user with a new HP printer. I went round (by bicycle, obviously) and checked it out, got the right WiFi password, checked my laptop could use it and tried loading the printer driver on to the Windows machine. In the meantime, a test document using LibreOffice on my laptop, USBed to the printer instantly printed. His Windows? Couldn't even get it to say anything to the printer. Even with LibreOffice loaded, still nothing. A problem for next week which most likely will be solved by fitting an SSD with Mint.

Windows boot time? Minutes, lots and lots of them. Mint on an SSD? About 28 seconds.

Next week there will be another Linux user.
But that new user in effect is getting a pre-installed version of linux on their PC. Granted not pre-installed by HP or Dell or whoever but pre-installed by you. You are the one who knows how to burn a USB .iso image. You are the one who knows how to deal with BIOS issues. You are the one who knows how to deal with driver issues. You are the one who will know how to put a Fb shortcut on the desktop if that is what they want. You are the one who will tweak the system for a little better performance. You might even install a Windows looking theme for them. And that is the point . . . . new people find being confronted with all that "stuff" to be overwhelming so they give up.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

bob466 wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:16 pm
...However not all Forum members are overly friendly and helpful...some are just sarcastic bullies who think they can victimise other members for what ever reason. Image This would turn some back to Windoze or at least to another Forum...which is very sad and not the Linux way. Image
Thank you very much for that. That said, this forum is much better about not having bullies and elitists who have no patience for Linux noobies than other Linux forums I've visited (or even some Windoze or program specific forums).
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Portreve »

chris0101 wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2010 2:29 pm
Why do new people give up on Linux?
Because sometimes, the drugs don't work like they're supposed to.
Your intermittently humble Portreve.

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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by t42 »

Portreve wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:55 pm
chris0101 wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2010 2:29 pm
Why do new people give up on Linux?
Because sometimes, the drugs don't work like they're supposed to.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by GaryS »

Why do new people give up on Linux?
Because sometimes, the drugs don't work like they're supposed to.
Oooo, I want that on a tee shirt.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by antikythera »

majpooper wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:56 pm
The operative word being "IF" . . . . right?
Exactly, also another firm called PC/OpenSystems LLC do something similar with LinSpire and FreeSpire. They were the guys behind blacklabs linux before.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Minux1 »

bob466 wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:16 pm
...However not all Forum members are overly friendly and helpful...some are just sarcastic bullies who think they can victimise other members for what ever reason. Image This would turn some back to Windoze or at least to another Forum...which is very sad and not the Linux way.
Az they say: it goes with the territory
Lots of smug-azzes on the forums for sure but to get thru life you need to develop a thicker skin.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by MurphCID »

Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:21 pm
bob466 wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:16 pm
...However not all Forum members are overly friendly and helpful...some are just sarcastic bullies who think they can victimise other members for what ever reason. Image This would turn some back to Windoze or at least to another Forum...which is very sad and not the Linux way. Image
Thank you very much for that. That said, this forum is much better about not having bullies and elitists who have no patience for Linux noobies than other Linux forums I've visited (or even some Windoze or program specific forums).
I agree, having been banned from several forums for refusing to shut up and RTFM, and suggesting Linux take some hints from Winders as far as dependencies go, I think this is the best, most helpful forum out there.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by RollyShed »

majpooper wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:16 pm
RollyShed wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:31 am
Here with the many installations, I do them and the "customer" gets a going computer, often with an SSD.
But that new user in effect is getting a pre-installed version of linux on their PC. Granted not pre-installed by HP or Dell or whoever but pre-installed by you.
That's why I used "customer" inverted commas. We, the supposed experts, to support Mint, do the installations.

The irony is that Microsoft charge to get their system installed, some of us do Linux for free.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by MartyMint »

RollyShed wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:50 pm

That's why I used "customer" inverted commas. We, the supposed experts, to support Mint, do the installations.

The irony is that Microsoft charge to get their system installed, some of us do Linux for free.
And then you're tech support for whoever you installed Linux Mint for.

I could give you a couple of reasons why that's not a good thing.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by RollyShed »

MartyMint wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:07 pm
RollyShed wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:50 pm

That's why I used "customer" inverted commas. We, the supposed experts, to support Mint, do the installations.

The irony is that Microsoft charge to get their system installed, some of us do Linux for free.
And then you're tech support for whoever you installed Linux Mint for.

I could give you a couple of reasons why that's not a good thing.
So your attitude is "Don't help anyone." ?

I am IT at our local Shed. Each person helps others. There is a wide range of skills and that's what it is all about. I am also the sewing machine tech, garden shed assembler and bicycle service adviser.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by MartyMint »

RollyShed wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:42 pm

So your attitude is "Don't help anyone." ?
No. My attitude is "you can't help everyone".
When they're waiting on you to fix something, they will be absolutely polite...but you're burdening them with the anxiety that "they are leaning on you"...and they feel like they are imposing, no matter how much you tell them to the contrary. Then you have the anxiety when you can't meet their needs promptly, no matter how much they say "oh take you time...it's no bother really".

So for people that aren't overly "tech savvy"...or seniors...or some folks that aren't that committed to learning new computer systems, my advice is:
"Buy a Mac and subscribe to Apple Care".

Sorry...but there's the enthusiasm for Linux all of us feel...and then there's reality. Computers mean different things to different folks.
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