Why do new people give up on Linux?

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Theologian

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Theologian »

'Why do new people give up on Linux?'

Because they win the Lotto and splash out on an unobtanium-armour-cased Mac? :mrgreen:
Theologian

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Theologian »

chris0101 wrote: 3. Lack of technical expertise...

4. Poor tech support or because few other people around them use it. Furthermore, in Linux, new users may not be used to asking for help on a forum.

6. Still user unfriendly ...

9. Short release cycles for some distros that mean that people have to upgrade a lot. Well, you don't have to upgrade ...

10. They actually have to download it. Face it - people are lazy. Some don't even know how to burn a disk with an ISO. No hope there unless they have a geek that knows Linux already.

11. Cosmetically, one could hope to make Linux look like Windows ...

Should Linux be for an exclusive group ...
On a few selected points:

3: Technical expertise is not always necessary; many Linux-based disros (including this one) are pretty much 'point-and-click', especially with features as the 'Advanced GNOME menu', 'software manager' etc: easier than web-browsing for .EXEs. So it's a little different?! Do computer game consumers have huge problems playing the latest game; or do they only play games that are 'clones' of each other?

4: This probably sounds cynical: GET OVER IT, learn to ask, most forums are friendly and helpful; and if you can't take a little flak, then you need to get out more.

6: The most common expressions I've heard in relation to Linux (LM & Ubuntu, in particular) is 'WOW! IT'S SO EASY TO USE! SO USER FRIENDLY! IT JUST WORKS!', mostly from people with 20-30 years experience of using a variety of machines and systems.

9: That it is not necessary to upgrade whenever the distro says so needs to be made a little clearer. A Linux-based distro will work as a standalone, without modification, if that's all you want.

10: They don't have to download it, simply because they're likely to know one of 'us Linux users' who'll burn a disc for them, once they finally yield after a prolonged period of 'Linux-evangelism'! :mrgreen: We'll probably also help them with any problems they encounter. If they're really interested and have a few bucks to spare, they can always by a Linux magazine, which usually comes with a disc containing 35 distros, at least! The other possibility is that they've never been near a machine before, so Linux would be their first encounter - grandparents, et.al., perhaps.

11: Why on Earth would anyone want a desktop/GUI/file-system to look like Windows? IMHO, the last good GUI Windows had was the original, which had to be invoked from the command-line!

etc.:

The very idea of exclusivity is diametrically opposed to the whole idea of FOSS, so no, and as far as I'm concerned, the 'Linux elitists' can take a long walk off a short plank! They're part of the reason why some people don't even bother with Linux in the first place.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by grey1960envoy »

Never heard of a bank MAKING a person use windoze Hmmm if this were my bank I dare say they would not have my business ! I feel if anything more secure using Linux for my banking !!! I'm also GLAD that it does NOT look like winblows
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Tom_Accuosti »

grey1960envoy wrote:Never heard of a bank MAKING a person use windoze Hmmm if this were my bank I dare say they would not have my business ! I feel if anything more secure using Linux for my banking !!! I'm also GLAD that it does NOT look like winblows
Up until a few years ago, my bank's software only ran under IE. In fact, quite a few large coprorations with "work from home" employees are using applications that require IE and will not run under Firefox, Opera, etc. My wife has such a setup. One of these days I'm going to actually get IE running in VB or VM Ware and see if that works.

ETA: fixed typos.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by grey1960envoy »

Must be the bank of Bill Gates !!!
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by samacaster »

What a long thread this is....Face it, windows users want a GUI for everything, and people are utterly frightened of command line/command prompt functions.

people are also used to a C: drive. No partitions. Some distros like Fedora 14 want to make a gazillion partitions. A friend went bananas when he installed Fedora on his laptop. He loved it until he realised he now had six partitions. He somehow thought that this would mess his windows up and reinstalled windows from his recovery disc. And as fate would have it, after all was said and done, he crashed a week later because he downloaded the most heavily infected file I have ever seen. Long story short, I get a call..HELP ME DUDE! He now runs Ubuntu 10.10 Maverick and is as happy as a clam. He even bought the Ubuntu book off Amazon! His amazement at Linux doing things faster, safer, and more reliably than windows is makes it all worthwhile.
Theologian

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Theologian »

chris0101 wrote: 11. Cosmetically, one could hope to make Linux look like Windows or introduce something like the Aero interface (see below). However, there is no way to hide the massive differences under the table like the fact that software repositories are needed.
The XP look-alike distro: http://www.ylmf.org/en/ :roll:

Given the almost incessant updates from M$, and the security packages needed to help infect/crash/destroy the installation, they might as well have repos.

I think the fundamental problem is convenience consumerism:

Given the option of a 'MegaMuckBurger' NOW, or waiting a few minutes for a prime steak (that may well cost less), many people will opt for the burger.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by CaptainJupiter »

I've been using Mint (9, and now 10) almost exclusively for two months, and am thinking of reverting to XP. Why? First, I miss video in Skype and MSN. I like the way Skype in XP keeps all your text messages. In Linux it doesn't. In general, the applications and utilities, while free, are less polished than those made for Windows. And many of the programs that used to cost $$ in Windows are now available as freeware. I'm a bit disappointed in Mint 10. Seems slower to boot up (than 9; still faster than XP though). Icons keep disappearing off the panel. Hibernate on my laptop doesn't work (others have raised this in other forums). These are probably bugs, which I hope will be fixed. But I guess the main reason is my complete unfamiliarity with Linux. I have used the terminal occasionally and can appreciate the power of it, but I use it too infrequently to remember all the commands. Very often I've downloaded programs from the repositories, which are then installed. But I cannot get them to run, even if they appear on the Mint Menu. There's no error message; just a very user-perplexing nothing. While I've been on Mint maybe 96 percent of my computer time in the past two months (including accessing XP via Wine) I still need to use XP occasionally, which means I have to maintain it, with all the dodgy MS and anti-virus updates. I like Mint and will see how I get on, but I can't see a day when I can get completely rid of XP and the programs that need it. So if I had to choose one OS it would have to be XP.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by piquat »

For me it's hardware compatability.

If I go to the store and see 15 different USB wirelss devices, I know that they ALL work under windows. I just pick the best of the 15 I have in front of me.

I have to check a list with Linux. And even then, I might be running it under some open source driver that may or may not support all the things it's capable of.

And then there's always gaming, which I do less and less of as I get older.

It'll end up on two of my four because that's what it's capable of. It can't really game like Win7 on my main machine. It can't really be compatible with all the things that I plug into my laptop either so that's staying XP.

It's getting there. I definitly see a time when it will be my only OS, just not quite there yet. I've tried it out about every two years since I built my first one in '98. It gets better and better each time. This time around it has gained a place on two of my machines. Maybe more next time...
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by mastablasta »

grey1960envoy wrote:The reason you don't find bugs in windoze (as it has been mentioned before )is the source code is restricted ...you are not allowed to even try to reverse engineer it without breaking the laws. THIS is partially how Gates and his gang has kept the monopoly so far.That and crushing competition with no regards to laws themselves.With enough money it is amazing who and what can be bought. I am very happy to say that very shortly my home will be 100% free from this despicable corporation !!!!

wait are you refering to security holes' because that are nto bugs. i am talking about bugs that affect the user in such a way that certain action always causes system crash, incopatibility or any other inconveniances.

ok how about this - my sound card doesn't work. in fact it works ok in liveCD session, works on the start but then it doesn't and it even dissapears from sound preferences. solution - upgrade alsa. sound drivers are parts of system in linux therefore a system bug. critical. has it been repaired no. look at ubuntu forums and you will see people with new intel board having same issue. i never ever heard of non working sound blaster compatible card/chip in windows.

bug number two - i had skype installed. after that "preload" command before start up video worked perfeclty, sound worked great. Ubuntu updates regularly (haven't used skype in a while). then i need to make a call using it. i use the skypše video works, but sound doesn't. and on top of it it crashes Skype. confused?! clearly one of the updates messed up the application. now i've been using MS products for a long time and i never heard of something like a system update messing wih application and destroying it. although i am sure it exists. still a bug. and when will this be fixed for me? who knows. maybe never.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by mastablasta »

markfiend wrote: And if your bank won't support Linux for online banking, move to one that does, and tell them why you're moving. Vote with your wallet. If enough people do this, businesses will be forced to support Linux.
their key or software is using Microsoft frame.net or what is it called... i would vote except i have a kredit here and it is also the nearest bank. for other banks that have better packages (and even Linux compatibility) i need to drive 25-30km to get to their offices. while here i can take care of things by a short walk. another thing is that my company is dealing wiht this bank so they kind of tie you up with it.
my vote is with wallet. though i wish changing place of work would be easy these days so i could change the bank as well. :D
OK I will concede that gaming is a valid reason to use Windows, but again, you could email (or phone, or even write) the games companies and ask them why they don't port their games to Linux. Companies pay attention to customer pressure. If the voice gets loud enough they will be forced to listen.
you are right, but i dont' think they care about letters from a few individuals. too often in big companies good suggesitons get thrown into the bin.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by mastablasta »

samacaster wrote:What a long thread this is....Face it, windows users want a GUI for everything, and people are utterly frightened of command line/command prompt functions.
well you shouldn't be dealing with command lien these days. that's the reason MS-DOS is "dead" among other things. when win3.x came out i wasn't convinced by the icons, but these days i would hate to do everything with a book in one hand searching for that command i need. it's also much easier to eplxain it to others what to do if you say to them click "e" instead of open internet browser. most people are not computer "educated".

Linux came a long way and for most things command is not needed. in fact probably with linux preinstalled it is rarelly used at all. still if you use wine or some other troubelshooting command line will probably be needed.
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Why did I give up on Linux?

Post by Pesky »

I am a crusty old computer veteran from the days of CP/M. My latest computer came with XP on it. XP served me well. No troubles, no worries. I decided to try Linux (Ubuntu) recently, mostly out of curiosity and boredom with XP.

The installation went without a hitch. Everything worked, but there is a fair amount of frustration involved simply because it is not the same. How do I mute the sound? How do I stop the screen saver from locking the screen? How do I change that ugly wallpaper? Then there is all new software to learn the ins and outs of. This list goes on, but you get the idea I am sure. None of these mean there is anything wrong with Linux. It just means there is an inherent learning curve because it is not the same. That builds a certain base level of frustration in a new user.

Then you discover that you can't rip a CD into MP3's, and that's what your car stereo needs. You go to the forums and find what seems like 10 slightly different versions of the terminal commands to add that capability. You try one that doesn't work, for some reason. You try another, which does work, but you wonder if the first command hosed anything up. Then you notice that you need to set gstreamer parameters to get decent VBR MP3 quality, and you also find 10 different versions of how those should be set, none of them with good explanations. Then you discover that MP3 headers ripped by gstreamer are not properly recognized by your MP3 player. Maybe it's gstreamer, maybe it's the MP3 player, you really don't know. Struggles with MP3's continue for days on the forums until you finally hit on something that works. It doesn't work quite the way you want, but it's acceptable.

Two days later, you enter your password in at login, the computer churns, and dumps you back to the login prompt with no error or explanation. You can't even get to your browser to do research. No other computer is available, and you start to ask: Why am I torturing myself? There was nothing really wrong with XP. You plunk in the system restore disk that came with your computer and reinstall XP. It boots up, everything is familiar again. Frankly, it is a relief.

A month or two later, you occasionally think about some of the nice features of Ubuntu that you miss, but see no good reason to go through all of that pain again. Then you hear about a distro called "Mint" that has all the multimedia stuff configured out of the box. You take two courage pills and decide to give it a whirl.

That was last Friday. It's up and running well. Things I learned the first time through have server me fairly well. I am struggling to figure out how to run a firewall and still use Windows shares between my computer and my wife's. It was easy when we both ran Windows. There are still some things I struggle with, but this is a frustration level I can live with.

The simple answer to the question is that it is not a trivial matter to install and learn a new OS. Trying to use my daughter's Mac one day had me cursing under my breath. Where's the right mouse button for gosh sakes! There are things Linux could do to smooth the path. Mint is a step in the right direction, but it will never be easy.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by grey1960envoy »

[Quote] i dont' think they care about letters from a few individuals. too often in big companies good suggesitons get thrown into the bin.[Quote]
This is the reason big companies can let things slide .If more people would come forth and TELL them what they want companies would start listening . Without this input the big ones will just keep on pushing windoze crap on us . The time is now to get these corporations to start looking at other ideas or keep being bullied by big brother M$.
In a perfect world everything has it's place, Linux on my computer, windows on the wall, and M$ in the trash!
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by grey1960envoy »

mastablasta wrote:
grey1960envoy wrote:The reason you don't find bugs in windoze (as it has been mentioned before )is the source code is restricted ...you are not allowed to even try to reverse engineer it without breaking the laws. THIS is partially how Gates and his gang has kept the monopoly so far.That and crushing competition with no regards to laws themselves.With enough money it is amazing who and what can be bought. I am very happy to say that very shortly my home will be 100% free from this despicable corporation !!!!

wait are you refering to security holes' because that are nto bugs. i am talking about bugs that affect the user in such a way that certain action always causes system crash, incopatibility or any other inconveniances.

ok how about this - my sound card doesn't work. in fact it works ok in liveCD session, works on the start but then it doesn't and it even dissapears from sound preferences. solution - upgrade alsa. sound drivers are parts of system in linux therefore a system bug. critical. has it been repaired no. look at ubuntu forums and you will see people with new intel board having same issue. i never ever heard of non working sound blaster compatible card/chip in windows.

bug number two - i had skype installed. after that "preload" command before start up video worked perfeclty, sound worked great. Ubuntu updates regularly (haven't used skype in a while). then i need to make a call using it. i use the skypše video works, but sound doesn't. and on top of it it crashes Skype. confused?! clearly one of the updates messed up the application. now i've been using MS products for a long time and i never heard of something like a system update messing wih application and destroying it. although i am sure it exists. still a bug. and when will this be fixed for me? who knows. maybe never.
I can't say anything about the problems you are having except I have mint running on 5 different computers and have yet to have any of the troubles you seem to have .(I am running mint 10 on a Dell inspiron 1525,mint 9 on an IBM thinkcenter 8183,9 on an Emachines E625 and 9 KDE on a HP Pavillion )the IBM did give me some trouble with sound but I fixed it in a matter of minutes with help from Google.
In a perfect world everything has it's place, Linux on my computer, windows on the wall, and M$ in the trash!
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by markfiend »

mastablasta wrote:wait are you refering to security holes' because that are nto bugs. i am talking about bugs that affect the user in such a way that certain action always causes system crash, incopatibility or any other inconveniances.
By any sensible definition, security holes are bugs. How do you think Windows machines get owned by viruses so easily? If that's not a bug (or more accurately, a festering series of them) then I don't know what is.
Omnia mutantur, nihil interit.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by grey1960envoy »

[Quote]wait are you refering to security holes' because that are nto bugs. i am talking about bugs that affect the user in such a way that certain action always causes system crash, incopatibility or any other inconveniances.[Quote]
This is what I'd call an infection or if you'd prefer a virus ...something in Linux just DOESN'T happen!!!!! The only problems I've had were things that I did, Not knowing better by not doing enough research. I'm not saying Linux is perfect BUT it is far better than what Billy boy is stuffing down Joe Customer's throat. If you don't believe that kindly start checking out how many times M$ has been taken to court over such things as Antitrust issues , The European Commission charging them for NOT complying with incompatibility that they claimed would be fixed ...do I really need to go on? How about the fact that in my estimation M$ is responsible for more than a few companies getting forced into bankruptcy all over M$ wanting to be not just the top BUT the only Software company on this planet by their own admission ! So please do not tell me that Microsoft is so good when anyone with half a clue knows it is crap !
In a perfect world everything has it's place, Linux on my computer, windows on the wall, and M$ in the trash!
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Elisa

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Elisa »

grey1960envoy wrote:...
:lol: Agree
+1
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by paulo.delavega »

I think that the main problem is simple: people are afraid of open-source software. They think it doesn't work.
Obviously. If Adobe charges me more than US$ 800 on Photoshop, how can I believe a free software like Gimp is better?
With Linux and Windows, it happens the same. They just don't get the open-source idea.

My personal experience: I tried Linux back in 2002. Back on those days, I had many compatibility problems with my modem and sound card. So i went back to XP.
This year I bought a HP notebook and decided to give it another shot. Double booted the pre-installed W7 with Ubuntu and just loved it. No hardware problems, no crashes, no slowdowns, nothing. I just installed it and it ran perfectly. Switched to Mint as soon as Mint 10 was released and it's even better.

I convinced my girlfriend to buy a computer with Linux pre-installed (better hardware cheaper than the Windows PCs) and give it a try, even though she was very biased about it. Switched the Red Flag Linux 6 to Ubuntu 10.10 and she was amazed how beautiful and easy-to-use it was.

It's just a matter of opnening your mind to new experiences. But I know it's really hard for some people...

About the technical expertise needed. It's not a big deal. Really. Pretty much everything you can do with the terminal you can do using tue GUI. Most people that use Windows don't know what is a registry key, cookies, drivers..
If you're using a computer for everyday use, like checking e-mail, surfing the web and watching videos, you can pass through like 6 months without touching the terminal. If not, you probably have the know-how to learn how to use it.
It's just a lame excuse for people lazyness.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by docsleezy »

#1 I think its that people aren't as smart as they think they are and linux reminds them of that fact. window dumbs things down to the point where a computer is more toy than tool. you remember those commecials with the little asian girl? the first time they run into a problem there isn't a GUI to fix it with they run away because they don't want to "break a nail touching that keyboard thingy".
#2 If they are old enough to remember DOS it doesn't really translate to terminal
#3 They feel lost trying to navigate the filesystem when they're trying to find the folder their new program they just got through package manager because its not in the menu button because it too has no GUI.

i've completely abandoned windows and will never go back i have an imac but that for my music studio and they havent ported logic pro yet so necessity sort of tied my hands.

LOAD "*",8,1
anyone remember that , some pre GUI for you quitting linux lame asses
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