Why do new people give up on Linux?

Chat about Linux in general
mastablasta
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by mastablasta »

markfiend wrote:
mastablasta wrote:wait are you refering to security holes' because that are nto bugs. i am talking about bugs that affect the user in such a way that certain action always causes system crash, incopatibility or any other inconveniances.
By any sensible definition, security holes are bugs. How do you think Windows machines get owned by viruses so easily? If that's not a bug (or more accurately, a festering series of them) then I don't know what is.
wait, are you saying that linux system can not be hacked? every system can be.

to me they are not bugs but security holes. they get filled up with patches. there are more holes with IE than with Windows kernel anyway.

EDIT: Alsomost of the holes are about internet. unplug it and system will run well with no malware at all :P

for the rest there is Comodo free firewall and Avast or Avira free antivirus suite.
Last edited by mastablasta on Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Theologian

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Theologian »

paulo.delavega wrote: ...
+10
+10
+10
+10
+10 (IMHO, Linuxers are mainly responsible for the 'technical expertise' myth; & IMExp, both XP & Vista(+100) are much more complicated/awkward/unfriendly to use than any everyday Linux.

It seems quite obvious to me that some people prefer to pay for rubbish, then pay more and more to protect and maintain an ever increasing rubbish tip!

"There's a sucker born every minute." P.T.Barnum
paulo.delavega wrote:It's just a lame excuse for people lazyness.
+110!
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by mastablasta »

grey1960envoy wrote:
wait are you refering to security holes' because that are nto bugs. i am talking about bugs that affect the user in such a way that certain action always causes system crash, incopatibility or any other inconveniances.
This is what I'd call an infection or if you'd prefer a virus ...something in Linux just DOESN'T happen!!!!!
The only problems I've had were things that I did, Not knowing better by not doing enough research. I'm not saying Linux is perfect BUT it is far better than what Billy boy is stuffing down Joe Customer's throat. If you don't believe that kindly start checking out how many times M$ has been taken to court over such things as Antitrust issues , The European Commission charging them for NOT complying with incompatibility that they claimed would be fixed ...do I really need to go on? How about the fact that in my estimation M$ is responsible for more than a few companies getting forced into bankruptcy all over M$ wanting to be not just the top BUT the only Software company on this planet by their own admission ! So please do not tell me that Microsoft is so good when anyone with half a clue knows it is crap !
really? so it's always users fault if something happens in linux because they are stupid/uneducated? this way of thinking is also the reason why people quit linux. from their point of view it's the systems fault. example i installed a DOS GUI, so that my wife would easier install new games if she felt like it. it was recomended to add a few sound libraries so that sound would work propperly. so i added them. and my sound was gone. did the system notify me that i might overwrite my previous settings? no, it didn't. it basically said yeah go ahead. so now it's my fault for following advice from websties as well as forum members?

what you are talking about microsoft corporation and their actions doesn't have to do anything with the operating system. you say anyone with half a clue knows it's crap. are you saying only 1.5 % population has half a clue (because that's about the amount of linux desktop users). and again this is the elitist thinking that others simply don't have any clue at all. basically if something fails it's not systems fault it+'s the user's fault for not knwoing and following system development, knowing the code and all that.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by mastablasta »

paulo.delavega wrote:I think that the main problem is simple: people are afraid of open-source software. They think it doesn't work.
Obviously. If Adobe charges me more than US$ 800 on Photoshop, how can I believe a free software like Gimp is better?
hmm, does GIMP really have these features (among many other new ones)?: http://tv.adobe.com/watch/photoshop-cs5 ... -features/

And if so where are they? cause i can't really find them.

yeah it's another issue if they are really worth 800$+
paulo.delavega
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by paulo.delavega »

mastablasta wrote:
paulo.delavega wrote:I think that the main problem is simple: people are afraid of open-source software. They think it doesn't work.
Obviously. If Adobe charges me more than US$ 800 on Photoshop, how can I believe a free software like Gimp is better?
hmm, does GIMP really have these features (among many other new ones)?: http://tv.adobe.com/watch/photoshop-cs5 ... -features/

And if so where are they? cause i can't really find them.

yeah it's another issue if they are really worth 800$+
I dind't say Gimp is better than Photoshop. I meant that even if it were, people wouldn't believe.
And I'm no Photoshop expert, but pretty much everything I used to do with it, I can do with Gimp.

The point is that there's a similar alternative for almost every windows program you need, if not better.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Dave68 »

@mastablasta

"confused?! clearly one of the updates messed up the application. now i've been using MS products for a long time and i never heard of something like a system update messing wih application and destroying it."

I am running Windows XP at work, and we use a Product Lifecycle Management Program called, "SMARTEAM". Not once, but twice in the last year, a Windows Update has caused a DDE Server Error. The only solution was to reboot, until I.T. took care of it.

I.T. had to remove the offending updates, and then hide them from coming up again. You are misinformed I'm sorry to say, and a Search will show just how misinformed you truly are.

Maybe you should think about hiding Level 3 Updates in Mint. These have caused more than a few issues. "Isadora XFCE 9 anyone" Does anyone remember when they could no longer mount a Thumb Drive?

I'm sure Merlwiz has found a solution, as he is very apt to do.

This is, by no means, a slight to any of the Devs. Level 3's can cause issues, but it also says right there, that they haven't been tested, but will likely be compatible.

FYI,
Dave
Last edited by Dave68 on Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by jokersloose »

I have a friend who found out I use linux and told me he tried it and it was just too hard. I asked when he last tried it and he said 6 or 7 years ago. So I gave him a copy of Mint 9 and told him too try it now. So as for him it was just too hard, no hardware support stuff like that.

James
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Dave68
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Dave68 »

As has been said many times, "Linux is not Windows".

9 times out of 10, it comes down to cost. Sometimes you have to set yorself on the path of learning something new. Many people don't like to do this. They are really good at such and such in Windows, but when you take someone out of their element, they get scared and most times panic and flee. I chose to still myself and learn, not unlike many of you have done.

Now the only reason I have Windows on my machine is because my Pre-Teen decided he had to spend his money on an iPod Shuffle. (I tried GTKPod, but it wouldn't recognize his Shuffle) Now once a week, I boot into Windows 7 just to be bombarded by this weeks gamut of Security Updates, Maintain my McCaffee Anti-Virus and download the latest and greatest Apple iWhatever so that my son can have the iPod he thought he needed so badly. (the things we do for our kids. LOL)


The discussion at hand: , "Why do new people give up on Linux?"

I have to believe, that they just don't want to take the time to learn something new. If I would have done that on my job, I doubt I would still have it.

Understanding, that this is not the same circumstances, but today's economy has brought a lot of people in to the Linux World. Windows 7 was out, and would require additional RAM, and XP would soon loose support. That's where I came from.

Initially, I chose Linux for the Price, free, as in beer, but now I choose Linux because everthing I did in Windows, I can do in Linux. I can also do it a lot faster, and that means my machine will be very efficient in the years to come, and "No!" I'm not a Gamer. I use my machines for Productivity, the intended purpose of a PC, in my opinion, and GNU/ Linux is an Excellant Choice for me.

I used to buy a new Computer about every three years. This one will go atleast another ten with a Linux Mint OS. That is not only a short time investment, but a long term investment as well. With every new Windows release, it will continue to demand more resources and plug along, but Linux will only optimize what it has, and still use less space.

Nobody wants, or needs to take the time to learn a new OS, as long M$ and Apple are still in charge of their Wallets. I personally like to control my own finances, more Bills are paid that way, and the money I donate to various Projects is used to better my experiance as a User. I also know that it goes to the "Project" instead of buying a new Winter Cabin for some Executive that could care less how I feel about their OS.

Challenge your mind People. Embrace GNU/ Linux for what it is. Freedom of Choice. Unless, of course, you don't like choice, then stick with that other OS, whatever it may be. You want to play games, go buy an XBox Whatever. You want to be Productive, and still play a game every now and again. Come on over to Linux. It's your choice. Nobody is making you do anything, except maybe learn something new. The day you stop learning, will be the day you have nothing else to live for.

Lovin The Ride,
Dave
Last edited by Dave68 on Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by paulo.delavega »

Challenge your mind People.
People don't like challenge, that's why they give up on Linux.

Sadly.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by grey1960envoy »

Dave68 wrote:As has been said many times, "Linux is not Windows".

9 times out of 10, it comes down to cost. Sometimes you have to set yorself on the path of learning something new. Many people don't like to do this. They are really good at such and such in Windows, but when you take someone out of their element, they get scared and most times panic and flee. I chose to still myself and learn, not unlike many of you have done.

Now the only reason I have Windows on my machine is because my Pre-Teen decided he had to spend his money on an iPod Shuffle. (I tried GTKPod, but it wouldn't recognize his Shuffle) Now once a week, I boot into Windows 7 just to be bombarded by this weeks gamut of Security Updates, Maintain my McCaffee Anti-Virus and download the latest and greatest Apple iWhatever so that my son can have the iPod he thought he needed so badly. (the things we do for our kids. LOL)


The discussion at hand: , "Why do new people give up on Linux?"

I have to believe, that they just don't want to take the time to learn something new. If I would have done that on my job, I doubt I would still have it.

Understanding, that this is not the same circumstances, but today's economy has brought a lot of people in to the Linux World. Windows 7 was out, and would require additional RAM, and XP would soon loose support. That's where I came from.

Initially, I chose Linux for the Price, free, as in beer, but now I choose Linux because everthing I did in Windows, I can do in Linux. I can also do it a lot faster, and that means my machine will be very efficient in the years to come, and "No!" I'm not a Gamer. I use my machines for Productivity, the intended purpose of a PC, in my opinion, and GNU/ Linux is an Excellant Choice for me.

I used to buy a new Computer about every three years. This one will go atleast another ten with a Linux Mint OS. That is not only a short time investment, but a long term investment as well. With every new Windows release, it will continue to demand more resources and plug along, but Linux will only optimize what it has, and still use less space.

Nobody wants, or needs to take the time to learn a new OS, as long M$ and Apple are still in charge of their Wallets. I personally like to control my own finances, more Bills are paid that way, and the money I donate to various Projects is used to better my experiance as a User. I also know that it goes to the "Project" instead of buying a new Winter Cabin for some Executive that could care less how I feel about their OS.

Challenge your mind People. Embrace GNU/ Linux for what it is. Freedom of Choice. Unless, of course, you don't like choice, then stick with that other OS, whatever it may be. You want to play games, go buy an XBox Whatever. You want to be Productive, and still play a game every now and again. Come on over to Linux. It's your choice. Nobody is making you do anything, except maybe learn something new. The day you stop learning, will be the day you have nothing else to live for.

Lovin The Ride,
Dave
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by grey1960envoy »

[quote="mastablasta"]

really? so it's always users fault if something happens in linux because they are stupid/uneducated? this way of thinking is also the reason why people quit linux. from their point of view it's the systems fault. example i installed a DOS GUI, so that my wife would easier install new games if she felt like it. it was recomended to add a few sound libraries so that sound would work propperly. so i added them. and my sound was gone. did the system notify me that i might overwrite my previous settings? no, it didn't. it basically said yeah go ahead. so now it's my fault for following advice from websties as well as forum members?[Quote]

I said no system is perfect did I not ? You seem to be using selectively reading. My statement was not in general but for my own experiences And I will stand by my earlier statements.Now if you can come up with a realistic argument concerning why people don't like Linux I would be very happy to rebut your opinion with truth.

[Quote]what you are talking about microsoft corporation and their actions doesn't have to do anything with the operating system.[Quote]

No their actions I feel are nothing to do with their product ...it is their GREED!!! I refuse to pay rediculously high prices for an inferior product. I am not a gamer so that argument does not fly in my home. M$ Office, I get along fine using Open Office...photoshop ,gimp,any more ?? I have not had ANY use for windoze in the past 7 months along with learning something that is actually fun. I'm not a drone constantly running this scan, defragging,or worrying about saving everything,I'm getting things done. If this makes me an elitist then so be it I'll be happy to wear that moniker thank you very much.By the way if you believe I spend all my time working on a computer sorry to dissapoint you but I do hold down a full time job that does not revolve around a computer.except for punching in and out.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by inktitan »

I have not read all 13 pages of this post so it may have been stated already. I believe the only reasons people give up on Linux, or anything in life really, is they are gullible and lazy. They are told that Li9nux is the golden answer to all of their problems. It could be if they were willing to put forth a little effort to get things done the right way. Windows is backed by much more money than any Linux distro. They have awesome campaign ads, though I like the Apple ads better. Like Fred had posted on the second page Linux does not have customers we have users. You get what you pay for, right. But when we tell people how amazing Linux is and how evil M$ is then they expect perfection. When they hit that first wifi not detected issue that is all it takes to prove to them that they had been lied to and Linux can not work. There exists way too much bias in the Linux community that some people are not even aware that there are different versions out there for them to try. I started in August of this year with Salix 13.1.1. That is not a very newbie friendly distro but it was not too hard to figure out but at the time it was driving me insane with all the little issues I was having. Finally someone on the forum said that I should try Linux Mint because it is much easier for the new. So I tried it and here I am. I don't know it perfectly but I know how to find out what I don't know and am able to solve some of my own posts before others respond. So if we can eliminate lazy and over selling everybody would use Linux and M$ would collapse. But that is wishful thinking. Not that I am completely against Windows but I always say "If I have to pay for it it better work."
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by markfiend »

mastablasta wrote:wait, are you saying that linux system can not be hacked? every system can be.

to me they are not bugs but security holes. they get filled up with patches. there are more holes with IE than with Windows kernel anyway.

EDIT: Alsomost of the holes are about internet. unplug it and system will run well with no malware at all :P

for the rest there is Comodo free firewall and Avast or Avira free antivirus suite.
I'm not saying a Linux system can't be cracked. (You don't mean hacked. Hacking does not mean malicious computer use.) But a Linux system is inherently far more secure than a windows system. It's simply incontravertible.

How is a security hole not a bug? It's a fault in the software that causes unintended negative consequences for the end-user. And they frequently don't get patched, at least not until an exploit for the hole is spotted "in the wild" -- and sometimes not even then. *sigh* Again, open-source bugs are openly disseminated; in theory anyone could spot and fix a bug in a FOSS project. Whereas bugs in proprietary systems are hidden... until they cause a catastrophic failure.

Using extra AV and firewall software to protect an insecure system is obviously not as good as running a (more) secure system in the first place.
mastablasta wrote:hmm, does GIMP really have these features (among many other new ones)?: http://tv.adobe.com/watch/photoshop-cs5 ... -features/

And if so where are they? cause i can't really find them.
The GIMP had content-aware fill before Photoshop did, just as one example.
Omnia mutantur, nihil interit.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by randomizer »

I consider security exploits as a something different to a bug, or at best a special kind of bug. A bug is when software does not perform its functionality as the developer or (to a lesser extent) the end user intended. A security exploit may not (and probably won't) in any way affect how the program functions. Bugs are triggered unexpectedly, security exploits must be exploited to be a problem.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Theologian »

Reasons for giving up on Linux:

1: Discovering that BSD suits ones requirements better.

2: Discovering that OpenSolaris suits ones requirements better.

3: Discovering that ones computer is of an architechture that even Debian doesn't support!

4: Being able to write a better kernel/OS from scratch.

5: Discovering a FORTH that compiles its own kernel when needed and reaching the conclusion that operating systems aren't necessary in themselves.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by hemimaniac »

helpvampire wrote:Why can't Mint look like Windows too?
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by inktitan »

hemimaniac wrote:
helpvampire wrote:Why can't Mint look like Windows too?
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+1 hemimaniac. If you want Windows use Windows. I think that is a fairly easy problem to solve. If you don't like paying for Windows check out ReactOS. Its goal is to be a Windows clone and I am pretty sure it uses some Linux components but is not Linux. So you can buy your Yugo and call it a Viper and I will stick with my Maserati
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Midnighter »

helpvampire wrote:Why can't Mint look like Windows too?

It "can", but why should it?
If you accept - and I do - that freedom of speech is important, then you are going to have to defend the indefensible. That means you are going to be defending the right of people to read, or to write, or to say, what you don't say or like or want said.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by grey1960envoy »

helpvampire wrote:Why can't Mint look like Windows too?
Tell me would you want to disguise a Ferrari to make it look like a KIA?????????????
In a perfect world everything has it's place, Linux on my computer, windows on the wall, and M$ in the trash!
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by hemimaniac »

helpvampire wrote:Why can't Mint look like Windows too?
Actually I've reconsidered, is this possibly the evil spawn of brawnypandora0 here to vamp the life out of resources again with inane posts and inherently bogus questions?
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