Why do new people give up on Linux?

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Elisa
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Elisa » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:07 am

mastablasta wrote:...but the topic is why people give up on linux. if oyu can't run this software and you are using this bank you have no joice but to give up on linux and switch to MS. or at least dual boot.
If whoever will force to whatever, e.g. using MSIE or go to sh..., I'd say: Okay, I can f....k u, rather I'll change the bank :idea: :roll:
[BTW banks are always and often too rich to behave as poor losers with no choice so I won't be that one who will accommodate to them...]
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by randomizer » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:54 am

mastablasta wrote:no it's not. compatibility can indeed be a problem in windows as well. but majority of PC hardware is made for windows or at least drivers are issued by manufacturers.
Tell that to my friends who have a webcam, yes, a webcam, that doesn't work with Windows Vista or later. Oh, and then there's my scanner which has the same problem unless you run a 32-bit version (there's some hacked 64-bit drivers but they're flaky at best). They did work once upon a time, but planned obsolescence means that they no longer work even though the hardware itself is fully operational.

See, I can pretend that my personal experiences have global relevance as well.

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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by inktitan » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:42 pm

randomizer wrote:
mastablasta wrote:no it's not. compatibility can indeed be a problem in windows as well. but majority of PC hardware is made for windows or at least drivers are issued by manufacturers.
Tell that to my friends who have a webcam, yes, a webcam, that doesn't work with Windows Vista or later. Oh, and then there's my scanner which has the same problem unless you run a 32-bit version (there's some hacked 64-bit drivers but they're flaky at best). They did work once upon a time, but planned obsolescence means that they no longer work even though the hardware itself is fully operational.

See, I can pretend that my personal experiences have global relevance as well.
:lol: :lol: I actually have an Xbox camera made by Microsoft that had quit working in XP. I thought that I had burned it out because it is not made for PC use(what's the difference I thought). Well it works amazing in Linux but still wont work in Vista and 7. Oddly enough Windows does Not provide the drivers for the camera they have to be downloaded separately and the XP service pack 3 removes them.confused? I guess Windows is competing with Xbox? Or... I don't even know anymore but FYI Bill Gates has left M$ a while ago and it has gotten worse...
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Elisa » Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:32 am

MintBooter wrote:...
Solution to this problem
Boot Windows and use ImgBurn
:roll: Another smart ... on the scene...
No need buy crappy windows and boot for this silliness: when downloaded the install or 'just-run' or portable version of ImgBurn, then run it by wine (something what allows u run win programs inside Linux :idea: )
However I do use k3b and I'm fine :wink:
MintBooter wrote:...
"if you're going to do something, do it properly or not at all"
Agree, first when wanna-be a Linux guru, first learn hard and after that you will write easily :lol:
MintBooter wrote:It's a good job the Linux folks are not in business, because if they were they wouldn't last a week...
And what about RedHat crew?? :roll:
MintBooter wrote:Linux is too much hard work, for anything serious...
Windows is too expensive s...t for buying so crappy dump with a need to buy or even install plus other crappy stuff to be safe on the Net or to do something serious, except to take care all the time of Windows like taking care of a "Tamagochi"...
:roll: Rather no more comments...

The last advice from me 4 u: if u wanna make business, ask RedHat crew for tips :idea:
:lol:
Linux/Unix is about freedom, Windows about slavery.

md5 / sha1 check [how-to for NEWBIES] :idea:

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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Elisa » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:57 am

MintBooter wrote:are you 5 years old or what? :lol:
Stop my mail box to spam as well as write me vulgar words!
Then I do hope you will be banned, you silly ... (@#$%^&*) !!!!
Linux/Unix is about freedom, Windows about slavery.

md5 / sha1 check [how-to for NEWBIES] :idea:

Score: 43 I have some hippie in me. Cool, man 8)
Take the elitemrp.net "Are you a Hippie?" Test

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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Dave Ganasson » Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:09 am

Elisa wrote:
MintBooter wrote:are you 5 years old or what? :lol:
Stop my mail box to spam as well as write me vulgar words!
Then I do hope you will be banned, you silly ... (@#$%^&*) !!!!
Can you grow up silly kid? i have reported your childish moron remarks, you should be banned soon :wink:

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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Elisa » Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:12 am

Let's see who will be banned first, you stenching and spamming ... (@#$%^&*)!
Linux/Unix is about freedom, Windows about slavery.

md5 / sha1 check [how-to for NEWBIES] :idea:

Score: 43 I have some hippie in me. Cool, man 8)
Take the elitemrp.net "Are you a Hippie?" Test

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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by /Zoran\ » Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:08 pm

hehe, interesting i just yesterday backed up around 20 GB of data with gnome baker and everything went fine.....

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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Sleven » Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:42 pm

Why do people give up on Linux?

Two possible answers come to mind right off the bat.

One, the learning curve is steep. I spent 28 years with Microsoft, from MS Dos 1.0 right up thru Windows 7. XP is still my favorite Windows OS.
When I made the transition from Win to Linux, for the first two months I felt dazed and confused. I was unfamiliar with the lingo, the terminology
was strange to say the least. In the beginning if I ran into a problem, the forums were just about the only place I had to turn to for help.
Didn't know enough about the OS to even be able to do the research to find an answer. I remember thinking many times during those months,
what have I got myself into, I'm over my head in this, I'll never get this. I often thought of putting Linux to bed and returning to my comfort zone in XP.
Today I'm very glad I pushed on. Some where shortly after the 2 month mark, things started getting a bit easier and then something clicked, I was no longer scared
of the OS and stared to have fun. A day came that I realized that I had let myself become trapped in a frontend GUI called Windows for 28 years, one that I had
no control over the OS, and that my new OS I could tweak and poke and experiment around with, that I once again had total control over my pc, even to the point of
changing the very kernel itself if I were that brave. That steep learning curve lead me to freedom.

Second is the GNU/Linux philosophy. The core users are a group of people that are dedicated to building a better OS, that understand that from time to time
issues will arise in which things don't always work the way we think they should, and personally that is one of the most rewarding aspects, finding a way to make it work.
For the most part the work arounds or patches come in the form of a cooperation among users helping each other. We have a very rewarding give and take atmosphere
in here. I have never been told by anybody that has been here for a while to go RTFM, or that I should be able to figure that out on my own. I have found just the opposite
to be true. Sometimes I'm pointed towards an article to read and if that does not help, some users have bent over backward providing step by step instructions.
So it is a matter of camaraderie with fellow believer in the GNU/Linux philosophy, you either get it or you don't. So if someone is looking for a perfect OS that always
works and never has any glitches, I can see why they might be turned off by Linux, but as far as I'm concerned there are no perfect OSs, Windows has a whole set of
user issues all on its own. If someone is in need of the perfect OS that is always predictable, they should start with a new kernel and work their way up, then there
would be no issues that weren't of their own creation.

Just my two cents worth...
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by randomizer » Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:58 pm

MintBooter wrote:Why do people give up on Bugux, um, sorry, Linux, well as I have said in another thread, I have enjoyed getting to know Linux a bit over the last year and a half, it works great for email & web browsing and Rythmbox seems to work well and I'm sure there are a dozen or so other apps that work ok but I doubt any more than that.

Take the one time I need to do something that I consider serious, like the backing up/archiving of data for long term storage on good quality DVD discs..............

Will there ever be a reliable burner for Linux?

Brasero is pathetic & buggy as hell as almost everyone knows (see the bugs all over launchpad) which is why most people get K3B into Gnome despite the heavy KDE dependancies.

K3B seems to be an improvement, at least the burning speed selected control works and it actually manages to eject a disc after burn without all those stupid Brasero type errors. The thing is, I don't want to rely on a program that for no good reason swaps burning tools or whatever while burning the same type of discs and the same type of data and then doesn't seem to end properly or display the 'finalising' part of the process (it switches between wodim & growisofs for no good reason).

Anything I consider serious like backing up/archiving data for long term storage, like in this data DVD burning issue, forget it in Linux, its a pathetic buggy amateur load of crap and I'm sick to death of wasting time trying to do anything serious in a reliable fashion.

Solution to this problem
Boot Windows and use ImgBurn

If any developers are reading this (which I doubt), why not rip f'ing Brasero out of the distro and develop or use something that works properly, would it be an idea to restart development of GnomeBaker?, I don't know, but I do know that since Mint 8 (in which Brasero seemed to work fine) there is no decent burner. Why not stop wasting peoples time and adopt the outlook of "if you're going to do something, do it properly or not at all"

It's a good job the Linux folks are not in business, because if they were they wouldn't last a week, that's for sure.

To summarize:-

Linux is too much hard work, for anything serious you have to find this workaround or that or sometimes you get the moronic statement of duhhh, "try another distro", yeah right, you end up (in the burning issues) having to grab a KDE app into the Gnome environment just to get something that still doesnt work properly.......so in short, why do people give up on linux.........the answer to this is as easy as ABC............it's a buggy amateur 2nd rate experience, which is a shame because I'm sure most of the developers are well meaning people.

Shame really.
Oh look, another person who thinks that because there is a problem with their configuration that everyone has this problem. I have never had issues with Brasero, but I don't go around calling Brasero (or Linux) God's gift to mankind, because I know that other people have had a different experience.

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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Dave Ganasson » Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:47 pm

[quote="/Zoran\"]hehe, interesting i just yesterday backed up around 20 GB of data with gnome baker and everything went fine.....[/quote]
Zoran, what Mint version are you running?, I would be very interested to know because if Gnomebaker is working well with Mint 9 or 10 then I will try it

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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Fred » Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:49 pm

@randomizer,

He is convinced. No point in in arguing with him. :-)

Fred
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and each time expecting a different result.

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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by feed3 » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:27 pm

The environment in this thread seems getting hotter and hotter.. Maybe mods can say something to cool it down? :)

Ahhh, i miss husse.. :cry: if he still here, he will definitely say something to cool down you all so that this forum is all about helping each other, not to shoot each other.. :( i miss that friendly environment when i first time came here.. sob.. sob.. :cry:

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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Daboo » Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:30 am

+1 to Sleven's comments. http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.p ... 5+#p372155

I started out with DOS 3.0. I put together a IBM XT clone and when I had plugged it in, I asked my wife (who supposedly knew something about computers) what to do next. She said to type "DIR", so I did. I asked her what to do next, and she said to hit Enter. I did and a whole stream of text went down the screen...and I was hooked.

When DOS 5.0 came out, I read an article where they broke the commands down into three groups. The first group they said everyone should know how to do these. I looked at them and said "yup, I can do those". The second group they said were only for power users. I looked at those and thought to myself, "gee, I use those all the time". The last group of commands the writer said no one ever uses them. I looked at those and said to myself, "I use those too. No problem."

I'm looking forward to the mental challenge of learning Linux. I'm not afraid of a terminal screen, since it isn't much different than a DOS prompt. It'll take a few weeks to learn how to get around there, but I know it is possible.

I also like what I'm seeing, especially in LinuxMint. I'm using the KDE version and just installed Win7 on my daughter's laptop. From what I can see, it seems similar in look to Win7/Vista, but does a much better job of it. I already use programs like Gimp for graphic editing, so making that transition from Windows to Linux is a snap. About the only negative, and it isn't much at all, is my favorite Bible program, The Word, doesn't look as nice in Linux. The fonts aren't as smooth. But the content is there and that's the most important part.

And I can't believe how fast Linux is in comparison to WinXP/Vista, and how much less space it takes. Everything I learn about it impresses me more and more.

Chris

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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by inktitan » Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:34 am

feed3 wrote:The environment in this thread seems getting hotter and hotter.. Maybe mods can say something to cool it down? :)

Ahhh, i miss husse.. :cry: if he still here, he will definitely say something to cool down you all so that this forum is all about helping each other, not to shoot each other.. :( i miss that friendly environment when i first time came here.. sob.. sob.. :cry:
I never had the pleasure but I have read his posts and I whole heartedly agree here. Why do new People give up on Linux...bickering. When we in the Linux community can not resist the urge to argue and attack those who are just frustrated that a small problem became huge due to a lack of knowledge/experience. They may call Linux non-functioning or buggy but over time (as they learn) they may change their opinion. But the arguments and bickering in the forums... THAT will push them farther from Linux and closer to Windows and will forever influence their decision.
Last edited by inktitan on Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by kindofabuzz » Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:07 am

"If it's free it must not be worth a damn." I've got that from several people I know. :roll:

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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by randomizer » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:00 am

kindofabuzz wrote:"If it's free it must not be worth a damn." I've got that from several people I know. :roll:
I got that from some kids while playing Left 4 Dead (not sure how Linux got brought up in an FPS). They said that only poor companies that can't afford Windows run Linux. I told them that most of the fastest supercomputers in the world run Linux, and the companies that manage those multi-billion-dollar monoliths aren't short of a buck.

You know, you could always tell them to buy RHEL or Mandriva Powerpack. It costs money so it must be good ;)

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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by /Zoran\ » Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:50 am

Dave Ganasson wrote:[quote="/Zoran\"]hehe, interesting i just yesterday backed up around 20 GB of data with gnome baker and everything went fine.....
Zoran, what Mint version are you running?, I would be very interested to know because if Gnomebaker is working well with Mint 9 or 10 then I will try it[/quote]

I'm running Mint 10 gnome the dvd release.....i've copied and burned around 20-30 DVDs, and a few audio cds and everything went fine, although i didn't use dual layer dvds. The only error i'm getting when i try to burn something that the project has more than 7 levels of directories, uername/pictures/folder1/f2/f3/f4/f5/f6, then you will receive an error because ISO standard doesn't allow so many folders in hierarchy....but that's not gnome baker fault it's an ISO limitation which other programs probably break, but then you don't have and iso standard disc :D .

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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Fandangio » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:10 am

I think many people see Windows as the de-facto standard and will quite happily assume it has no faults, and in that any hardware or software compatibility issues must be caused by their manufacturer and not the OS. Personally I have had some hw issues on Windows and some on Linux so there's no real difference on that front for me. For new users though they may purely lay the blame at the Linux OS.

Maybe there should be another thread titled why I stick with Linux. For me it's easy;

It's fast (compared to Windows unbelievably so - and I'm not even running a light distro)
No pain in the backside reactivations whenever I decide to upgrade a piece of hardware.
Choice.
Stability (I've never had a crash on Linux where as on my XP work machine I had three ON FRIDAY alone - which isn't unusual).
And to be fair too many other benefits to be mentioned....
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by /Zoran\ » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:05 pm

ikey wrote:You shouldn't be using ISO9660 for DVD's as they use UDF.
I didn't know that....well the important thing is that it works, on windoze, my dvd player and of course mint.... :D

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