Why do new people give up on Linux?

[sreesog]

Among PC users I see mainly four categories of people.
* Windows Desktop PC users who know almost nothing about Linux
* Techies who are into servers. They prefer Redhat varients, and is aware of Widnows servers as well.
* Linux beginners (Desktop PC users) who are distro hopping. Most of them dump linux and go back to Windows. (And they would say linux is trash and unfriendly and they are right too!) Usually it is few those who land in a good, stable debian based distro such as Linux Mint Cinnomon stay. (And they would say linux is stable and friendly, and they are right too!)
* Linux experts (Desktop PC Users) and gamers who found their way. Most them land in solid branches like Arch varients. The promise I see in this direction for the beginners is stable but flashy distros such as Garuda Linux.
The underlying fact is that Linux is yet to catchup in Desktop PC market. It has only near 2% of the market share, where as the trash spywere named Windows 10 enjoys more than 80%. Whether it is (Linux Debian) Mint Cinnomon way or (Linux Arch) Garuda Way, it should become for beginner friendly and well marketted, and well taught, so as to gain visibility among Desktop PC users.
Requirements:
* Stable and feature rich. (Strong from within)
* Beginner friendly (i.e.similarity with windows : I know you will hate it, but it is necessory to gain market share.)
* Good classes and certification.
* Good Marketting
More applications that could replace winner apps in windows platform & better driver support for propritory hardware.
Currently I see only very few distros like Linux Mint and Garuda Linux fits into this bill. Nothing else! And whether Mint or Garuda I will prefer to use Cinnomon desktop which is study and stable. (May be KDE Plasma desktop is the other option that competes Cinnomon). In Linux world there are too much advancements, too many options and freedom. But companis that make excellent applications (such as Adobe, Corel etc) are yet to focus on linux because it lacks major market share (mere 2%) and there is too much fragmentation (hundreds if not thousands of distros!)

[Barbados99]

So people give up on linux because it was misrepresented to them, by well meaning people, and they shouldn't have been using it in the first place. Usually because of an upgrade failure, that was a problem I tried to resolve with a core group of people for years, and we almost had the problem licked, but it was a full time job, and then we all moved on, but it was a problem that could with cooperation be solved, never has been though. It's better now than before, but still not that great. One upgrade failure is all it takes most users to give up. Or some windows hardware not working, and them not understanding that if they got the right hardware for linux, their issues would be over, permanently. Or they need to use fancy printers or scanners, and get the wrong ones. Or they want windows but for free.

So my long term view now is, people aren't giving up on linux, they weren't meant to use it in the first place, they discovered that fact, and moved on to what they were or are meant to use, which is totally fine.

It's not a religion where it dies if you don't gain more adherents, taking them from the other competing factions, it's just a bunch of people writing the os they want, the tools they want, the desktops or window managers they want, and if those happen to meet your own wants or needs, then you are indeed in luck!!! But if not, it's not like you paid for it, and have some claim to be able to demand x or y from the developers, what did that person themselves do to make it more the way they wanted? Odds are good they did nothing, and prefer to complain about linux users, because they do not understand that this is FREE/Libre software, and they have no right to complain at all, that's a somewhat disgusting sense of entitlement that I do not fully understand, I mean, yes, sometimes stuff sucks, really bad, and lord knows, I've complained, but to me, if you aren't doing anything other than taking, then your rights to complain are very small.

This is, again, what I view as the biggest mistake free software based distributions make, not making it clear to their users that you cannot compare corporate run non free systems like windows or osx with free software, because it's apples to oranges

I really liked your comments, especially those quoted above. I think there's a lot of truth in what you say. I figure Linux isn't the best fit for everyone and we shouldn't pressure people to use an OS that is not a good fit for them. We don't all drive the exact same car, or eat the exact same meals each day or wear the exact same clothes, etc. Choice is a good thing. I just think trying to make an OS choice into a religion-type thing with zealots pushing an OS is not good. And I personally don't care about "market share" as if it is some holy grail thing, that Linux has to appeal to the masses. As long as it fits my needs then I'm happy. If it didn't then I'd just move on to an OS that did fit my needs. I don't feel the need to be a Linux missionary who thinks I need to "convert" the masses to running the same OS as I run. I do let friends and family know about Linux, but I hope I never over-sell the experience by not being honest about the OS. It's not for everyone. And that's okay.

[majpooper]

I hope this does not come out as harsh but new people who give up on linux probably should not have tried it in the first place. Why do we keep comparing apples to oranges (pre-installed Windows/Mac to user installed linux) they are two completely different environmental situations. If a non-technical person is having issues with Win10 then they should buy a Mac or visa versa.

[Moem]

I hope this does not come out as harsh but new people who give up on linux probably should not have tried it in the first place.

How would they know that unless they try? And what's so bad about trying something, and then deciding it's not for you?

[Barbados99]

How would they know that unless they try? And what's so bad about trying something, and then deciding it's not for you?

I do think it's important to be honest with someone (friend or family member) if you're suggesting they try Linux for the first time. But you do make a good point for people who learn about Linux on their own and want to give it a try. They can just try it and see if it's for them. That's how I first tried Linux. I just read about it and jumped in. Honestly it was a bit brutal for me due to the fact I didn't know much about it, and had nobody to help me (this was Linux in the 1990's) and I didn't even know there were forums to support me. I just went in blind, but motivated by the possibility of saving money. Back then that was a powerful motivator for me because I was on a shoestring budget. I gutted it out. There really was no turning back for me. I was determined to make it work come hell or high water... it had to work. But I really did struggle with the transition from my Windows computer at work, to my Linux at home. At first anyway.

If it is a situation where a veteran Linux user is trying to convince someone else to use Linux for the first time, I think we should be 100% honest explaining what they will be transitioning to. This isn't Windows. There is a learning curve involved in the transition. The software is different and there isn't a help desk you can call when you screw something up. And be honest that sometimes things won't work (research your hardware compatibility). It does require some effort to make the transition to Linux. An honest explanation can then help a person to make an informed decision based upon what Linux is, and what it isn't. And help them understand about using a help forum for support - and obviously offer to help them yourself if you're doing this for a friend, family member or co-worker. And then if they decide to try Linux they are going in with their eyes open. If they don't like Linux, that's fine.

[RollyShed]

There is a learning curve involved in the transition. The software is different and there isn't a help desk you can call when you screw something up.

Software difference? So the Windows users have been using Firefox or Chrome, LibreOffice (Write and the spreadsheet) and maybe VLC for videos. Where is the difference?
Help desk - they know my phone number or email address.....

[Barbados99]

There is a learning curve involved in the transition. The software is different and there isn't a help desk you can call when you screw something up.

Software difference? So the Windows users have been using Firefox or Chrome, LibreOffice (Write and the spreadsheet) and maybe VLC for videos. Where is the difference?
Help desk - they know my phone number or email address.....

Some is the same. If all of your software is multi-platform that's great. Mine wasn't. There is a learning curve in the transition.

[motoryzen]

@ Jpete aka Jeff

-- Indeed. Sometimes depending on the individual's who begin talking for the first time, there is this accidental "distance" of disconnect between each other misunderstanding the other's experience level. And, it isn't so easy to determine one's Linux experience until we discover what he or she knows and what he or she doesn't when the troubleshooting begins.

I used to give up on Linux for the following problems that either I could not figure out how to resolve or the resolution wasn't yet available:

1. No way to set the system to set my monitor's refresh rate above 60hz ( 144hz monitor here since May of 2017), then later no way to do so in a GUI option and had to via xrandr specific terminal command, then ensure I pasted that as a custom startup applications command so the system would automatically set it every boot up, but during the mint 17 and even 18 days, sometimes it would act like that command didn't exist and boot the system to 60hz. This was very frustrating.

2. No dependable competitor to Win 10's "night light" mode ( aka software based blue light filter adjustment). Finally eventually stumbled upon a manual way to prep redshift via creating a certain file ( I forgot the url), but later by the time LM 20 arrived, I stumbled upon the qredshift applet and it's been my go to ever since and rock solid dependable.

3. My g1-g6 side keys on my logitech 710+ keyboard : Tried to get the system to register them as something other than just numpad/numlock 1-7 buttons but still to this day I can't get that working, but I've learned well how to live without needing them ( just say whatever I normally used to use each for as autostart up stuff since I know I load them eventually on every single boot up anyways ( web browser, email, music player, calculator, multiple file manager windows )

4. Gaming: Proton really wasn't a thing in 2017 and really 2018. It wasn't until sometime in 2019 that it really began making some real progress I think. Before 2019, I couldn't get but a barely a hand full of Windows-native game titles working be it in Wine or Steam in Linux. But thanks to Proton and Wine advancements as well as Linux Kernel advancements with better AMD gpu drivers built it ( as well as Mesa and Vulkan improvements) since July 2020, there's been only ONE game/game set I have yet to get working to this day. It sucks but I'll be just fine.

5. Moving ripping and shrinking. I don't deal with a crap ton of online tv/content consumption things, netflix being a reasonable exception sometimes, so I've built a purchased movie collection across many years, but refuse to deal with the physical disc each time I want to watch a movie or TV series. So I rip my personally purchased collection to my storage drives and then shrink/transcode them to a more reasonable size.

In 2016, makemkv and handbrake were basically a " compile it yourself "pipe-dream that I got done maybe ONCE, and it was a royal pain as I don't know jack crap about "building" anything in the Linux world. That was over my head and basically still is to some extent. Enter 2018 or at least guaranteed 2019 ( I forgot which) and I found both software available in Software Manager just simple few clicks away and ready to rock. I couldn't believe it. So those two were two more things to check off of my " reasons I can't move to Linux" list.

6. Before I discovered and really dove into the pool of LM Cinnamon, I was struggling to find a Linux distro and desktop environment that was user friendly enough, not a steep learning curve transition from Windows, and would let me set certain things ( like window snapping and the equal to a taskbar start menu) to the same hotkeys without being a dadgum software dev. Mate on Ubuntu as well as Mint were both ( at least as of July 2020 and older versions for me) buggy and crash proned and xfce was just to "manual" for me to figure out how to accomplish those things or perhaps it just wasn't possible. Enter LM Cinnamon.

All of these conversational jokes or memes about " The year of the Linux Desktop is here". Well for me 2020 Became that year, and I couldn't be happier.

[David Chiang]

If it is a situation where a veteran Linux user is trying to convince someone else to use Linux for the first time, I think we should be 100% honest explaining what they will be transitioning to. This isn't Windows. There is a learning curve involved in the transition. The software is different and there isn't a help desk you can call when you screw something up. And be honest that sometimes things won't work (research your hardware compatibility). It does require some effort to make the transition to Linux. An honest explanation can then help a person to make an informed decision based upon what Linux is, and what it isn't. And help them understand about using a help forum for support - and obviously offer to help them yourself if you're doing this for a friend, family member or co-worker. And then if they decide to try Linux they are going in with their eyes open. If they don't like Linux, that's fine.

First of all, personally, I would never point this out to my work colleagues because I am not their daddy. If one of them asks me about it, then I'm sure we can talk about it, but I wouldn't offer myself as a supporter. In that case, they would have to use the same sources of information that are available to me. In the case of family members or close friends, I would check in advance whether the person in question is suitably qualified, before I recommend an OS to them. If one of them comes into question, then the next point would be to discuss the hardware and also the software necessary for his or her interests. It is certainly also important to point out the demands that the operating system makes on the user. In order to keep getting started as easy and safe as possible, the system would have to be installed and set up exclusively by me. Then one can hold a short crash course on operation and the most important differences compared to Windows at a suitable time, or point out the most important sources of information so that the person concerned can help him- or herself if necessary.

If an operating system can offer a corresponding degree of ease of use and security through established standards, then the question of its popularity should no longer arise due to its increasing spread. In the case of Linux, freedom has nothing to do with independence, as every user should know! To this day, a never-ending flow of information is necessary to keep it alive, as it generates more problems than it solves, especially due to its diversity and short-lived stages. Any user should also be informed about this beforehand!

Linux will be 30 years old on October 5th this year (version 0.02) and it's still half-baked compared to other major operating systems.

[t42]

And what's so bad about trying something, and then deciding it's not for you?

This is easily one of the best lines in this thread.

It is interesting to note that so many very experienced people are talking here mostly about himself in the first, second or third person, about how they hate dependencies hell, freedom of choice and Linux itself, forgetting about undefined new people, which are not sufficiently sophisticated to know better.

Still, is this thread a honeypot?

[majpooper]

And what's so bad about trying something, and then deciding it's not for you?

Nothing of course - but that is not the question as I see it anyway. I tried sushi when I had an assignment in Japan and decided it was not for me - no problem. The problem as I see it is too many new people think installing linux is like installing some software from a CD/DVD like they do with Windows or Mac. Too many linux sites couch the description of their distro as a simple replacement or something to add "next" to Windows/Mac. Oh they all say read the Installation Manual or the Wiki . . . . . . yeah, no - we all know how that works out which is another topic that will take us down a rat hole.

I have installed linux for 8 people - 6 are still on it and I support them - none of them could have done it for themselves (the exception, my sister for whom I installed LM17.3 and she installed LM 19.0 on her own and also figured out how to transition from Quicken to GnuCash). They were all unhappy with Windows or had an under-performing PC/laptop. Some of them did not know the difference between a browser and an OS - I have literally asked someone what OS they had and the told Firefox. Another told be they tried installing linux "on" Windows but it wouldn't work - I asked if they changed the boot order in the BIOS - I got the 1000 mile stare. So yeah, those folks probably shouldn't try linux. To Moem's point I will add "on their own."

[MartyMint]

If a non-technical person is having issues with Win10 then they should buy a Mac or visa versa.

Harsh, but true.
Mac + AppleCare = somebody else's problem, not yours

[Hoser Rob]

I hope this does not come out as harsh but new people who give up on linux probably should not have tried it in the first place. Why do we keep comparing apples to oranges (pre-installed Windows/Mac to user installed linux) they are two completely different environmental situations. If a non-technical person is having issues with Win10 then they should buy a Mac or visa versa.

+1. Many new users just have NO idea what they're getting into. In Windows you just think you're the administrator. In Linux you really are, and many who thought they were experts find out just how little they really know.

[Barbados99]

I hope this does not come out as harsh but new people who give up on linux probably should not have tried it in the first place. Why do we keep comparing apples to oranges (pre-installed Windows/Mac to user installed linux) they are two completely different environmental situations. If a non-technical person is having issues with Win10 then they should buy a Mac or visa versa.

+1. Many new users just have NO idea what they're getting into. In Windows you just think you're the administrator. In Linux you really are, and many who thought they were experts find out just how little they really know.

That's a good point too. Consequently there is a time investment requirement and a learning curve required to successfully make the transition to Linux. A number of people try Linux without understanding this. They are disappointed when the reality of what is required hits them. I think they are surprised that there is a level of committent required. And a person doesn't have to be a skilled computer user or I.T. person (I wasn't) but they do need to put in a bit of work. I just don't think a lot of people understand this when they first try Linux. And they are not willing to invest the time required to be the administrator (as you put it so well). There's no free lunch here.

[MartyMint]

People shouldn't have clean drinking water until they learn about water treatment and waste processing.

[Barbados99]

People shouldn't have clean drinking water until they learn about water treatment and waste processing.

People probably shouldn't drink something if they don't know what it is they're about to drink. It's a "scientia potentia est" kind of thing.

[exploder]

I have been working on trying to flip PC's lately to help my improve my income. Because of the corona virus I ended up in a job that pays less. Computer parts prices are at an all time high though, especially any kind of decent graphics cards. Most people looking for a computer right now want one with Windows 10 so I have had to familiarize myself with it again.

People that are stuck at home want some kind of entertainment, many are exploring computer gaming now. Windows 10 has far more to offer in the way of software gamers want. Sure, you can game in Linux with Steam but a lot of the popular titles only run in Windows. To add to things many computer parts that used to be cheap and easily obtained are priced out of the average person's reach.

Many are overclocking their processor, memory and graphics cards to get performance out of older hardware. Overclocking the processor and memory is done in the BIOS, if you have a decent motherboard the operating system doesn't matter. To overclock your graphics card you need MSI Afterburner, that's the app of choice among enthusiasts. There is no Linux version of this or any equivalent that I know of.

The availability of benchmark apps is really poor in Linux also, there are a couple available but they are pretty out of date. Cinebench, Heaven and a slew of others are available for Windows. You really need these to test for stability and temperatures!

I recently built a new/used system that has some bling to it, new case, power supply, heatsink, lighted fans, SSD but the motherboard, processor, memory and graphics card were used. It's an AMD FX 6200 based system. I just can't afford the latest, greatest with my current job, many are in the same situation. I was underwhelmed with the system's stock performance under Linux. I spent hours tweaking and still was not happy with the system...

I was at the point where I was going to just install Windows 10 and sell the computer, it was a real disappointing experience. I installed Windows, tweaked everything and overclocked the 1050 Ti, the processor was already overclocked 400 MHz and the RAM 100 MHz or so. To be fair though, the NVidia driver was newer than what was available under Linux. The performance was very noticeably better! Temperatures were well within specs too!

I have been a Linux user for many, many years and still run it on most of our computers. There are things about Windows and other operating systems I really don't care for. My point is having the right tool for the job. Enthusiasts drive the market along with availability of desired software. Putting aside how you obtain that software and how safe it might be, Windows currently has more available that enthusiasts want. Let's face it, enthusiasts are generally the ones that try Linux in the first place. The average user uses what the computer comes with.

I have yet to see an overclocking section on any Linux forum, most people just used their hardware as is. Software tends to get more bloated under every OS unfortunately and with current pricing, shortages, overclocking is a decent option if you are so inclined to do so. Windows user's were quick to help me with this, even when I was doing it in Linux! And yes, even Windows enthusiasts do run Linux on their older hardware.

I have learned far more than I ever expected to lately! I am over the Linux is better than Windows type of mentality or vice versa. It's all about the software, the OS is irrelevant these days. Privacy does not exist in any OS today, someone is always tracking your habits one way or anther. As soon as you are online your privacy is a thing of the past!

My conclusions is that people give up on Linux mainly because of software that they can not run. Use the best tool for the job and loose the my OS is better than yours mentality because it really does not apply these days.

[calcat19]

I started using Linux more than 20 years ago, back when I had a brain ;> I got into Linux for the fun of it, learning how to get around problems, how to get things to work, like that. It was *tough* back then to be a newbie - people were not always patient with newbies - and a female newbie, at that. It was a boy's club, and no amount of personal geek cred made any difference. Okay, got that out of the way ;>

I switched back to Windows during the Napster craze, because Napster "just worked". After Napster died out, I worked back and forth in Linux and Windows, and even left Linux completely for a few years.

I never lost my urge to use Linux. Every once in a while, I'd install a new distro and use it for a while, switching back to Windows when I had just bought some new graphics program that would only run in Win.

A couple of years ago, I jumped back in, and now use Linux for just about everything, on my laptop. I have another computer set up with Windows, and that's what I mostly use for those graphics apps. I'm not using Linux just for playing around, I'm using it as my main computer operating system, despite its lacking in graphics apps. (I would pay money for a Linux version of Paint Shop Pro newer than PSP7 ('cause I cannot get PSP9 to run, at all)).

A few weeks ago, I had to switch to Windows to play a hidden object game that I had just bought. Windows went into updating, so I had to wait for that to happen. Windows had been running very slow, and I wasn't happy with it, so after the updates, I tried booting back to Linux.

Apparently, the uefi had been overwritten (?). At that time, my brain was *not* working, and I lacked the interest in getting it going again. This problem has occurred before, but I couldn't find the link that I had carefully saved, that explained what was happening and how to fix it. I worked in Windows for a few weeks, until I had the motivation and time and brainpower to get things working properly.

Here I am in Linux again, and happy to be here.
I was so darned happy when I got things working again, today, and running Linux, and working in the Linux environment that I felt that I wanted to post a love letter to Linux LOL With all the hassles that Linux sometimes presents to me, I just like the environment so much better.

This time I noticed that being in Linux feels so personal, and human-sized, and *sensible* to use. Windows has the bells and whistles, and I have software that only runs in Windows, but Win feels like a behemoth, and it feels like a huge weight on me to use. It is not human-sized, nor personal, and a lot of the time, it doesn't feel like it does things in a sensible way.

That's why I keep coming back to Linux.

[MartyMint]

What an incredible story.

[RickyRaccoon]

Win feels like a behemoth

Don't it, though.

It was a boy's club, and no amount of personal geek cred made any difference

Find that.. surprising. rewind the clock back about 30 years when I was still in high school, and I have to say a girl that much into computers would have been like, the coolest thing ever. Just sayin'. Well to me, anyway.

When I first moved over to Mint to use as a daily driver (17.3 I think), it frustrated me a good bit here and there, but I've been tempted only sparingly, to go back to Windows. I might have 'gone back' once, and it lasted maybe five minutes or something. Sure I don't know much about the nuts and bolts, and sometimes I get a little flummoxed until I can find a fix that I can copy/paste into the terminal- but I have no desire to go back- I have Windows as dual-boot- just in case I need it- which is rarely. Usually I'm booting to Windows simply because I'm bored and have generously deigned for it to catch up on updates. Soon as it's done- back to Mint!