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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:58 am
by MurphCID
EFI instead of BIOS, and it can be an issue. I had that problem with a couple of HP laptops, if I did not go to legacy boot in the BIOS I had issues. Also Secure Boot can be problematic for some. Plus there is STILL after all these years too darn much RTFM attitude by many.

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:39 am
by antikythera
MurphCID wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:58 am
Plus there is STILL after all these years too darn much RTFM attitude by many.
I prefer to step away rather than posting that because you know it won't happen anyway with some folk it's posted to by other members.

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:43 am
by Barbados99
What one person likes, another may not like. You can't please everyone. And it's okay if people decide Linux is not for them. I respect that choice. It's the same with people who do like Linux but disagree over distro choices. Choose the OS you like best and go with it. No worries, and I'm thankful we do have a free choice to pick what is the best fit for us - what we are most comfortable with. Speaking of the comfort aspect of an OS, my #1 reason for sticking with Linux Mint is the resource here on this forum. I feel a comfort level knowing that I have rock solid support here that I have benefited from over the years now. I think that some new people trying Linux may not understand how powerful this help resource is. They may not understand the quality of help that is available here too. I've used a number of distros over the years and I always research the forum associated with a distro. If it's a good community (like here) I feel comfortable trying that distro out. If it's not a good forum (and there are a few of those out there too) I don't go with the distro. Maybe my case is different than some due to the fact that I am not an I.T. guy. I do need help from time to time figuring something out. I always get that help here. I don't worry about anything when I install Mint. If and when I have a problem I come here and quickly get it figured out with the help of folks here. New people to Linux may not understand this resource is as valuable as it is. JMO.

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:49 am
by antikythera
Very well put Barbados99!

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:46 am
by Mick-Cork
I think 'giving up' is a result of misplaced expectations or a lack of reliability.

We all switch brands from time to time. The electric tool that wasn't powerful enough, the car that had you standing on the side of the road, the food blender you bought before you learned there were models with a pulse option, etc etc.

If expectations are reasonably accurate in advance, and whatever you opt for doesn't break down once you've got it, you're more likely to stick with and enjoy the change.

So, IMO, the best way to keep users is to make it as clear as possible beforehand exactly what the pros and cons are. I also think if LM had the resources to get it's message out more clearly it's the type of distro that could lead the way on this, from both a technical and a user support perspective (as per Barbados99's insightful post).

The 'giving up' question is also tied somewhat into the 'not going there in the first place' psychology. What keeps more users from switching to Linux in the first place. How do you turn a natural fear of change into a belief that change is easy, enjoyable, and that moving house can bring a refreshing change of perspective. Given the nature of the 'product' and the online world we live in, LM could be doing more of this with its online content.

Set the expectations, lay out the advantages, the differences, the challenges, show how easy it is to test and switch, and highlight the fact that there's a community of like-minded users out there that enjoy providing help and support.

Anyway, that's my rough off the cuff thoughts. This whole arena is ripe for a joined-up comprehensive 'marketing' strategy at some point.

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:06 pm
by Lady Fitzgerald
MurphCID wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:58 am
...Plus there is STILL after all these years too darn much RTFM attitude by many.
Even more frustrating is being told that, then not being able to understand the FM due to the technical jargon, the FM is missing some steps, or has steps that tell you to do something without telling you how to do it. :roll:

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:15 pm
by ThrashZone2
Hi,
Problem is if any of you genius's would of looked up the indicator-cpufreq app I posted about you would of known what I was referring too.
Performance power plan

I'm on manual voltage with all power saving nonsense off in bios
All core 5.0 and without the indicator-cpufreq app my system is sluggish

Installed cpu-x look it up dudes lol and it showed why system was not staying at 5.0 mhz it was bouncing around which means bios settings were ignored and mint used a power saver.
Using indicator-cpufreq I can easily switch to Performance power plan and boom I'm staying at 5.0 mhz

The only intelligent response was MurphCID I appreciate that
Everyone else just focused on one sentence and then troll after troll petting the first troll this is linux support at work and why people give up
I've yet to find any solutions on this forum it's always elsewhere.

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:35 pm
by Pjotr
ThrashZone2 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:15 pm
I've yet to find any solutions on this forum it's always elsewhere.
And BOOM! Another troll-like remark. How unexpected. :lol:

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:43 pm
by Pjotr
Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:06 pm
not being able to understand the FM due to the technical jargon, the FM is missing some steps, or has steps that tell you to do something without telling you how to do it. :roll:
Yes, that's an ancient problem.... In fact, that was the main reason why I started my own documentation, back in 2008 or so. :mrgreen:

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:46 pm
by antikythera
5 MHz? no wonder they're concerned about performance :twisted:

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:05 pm
by MrEen
ThrashZone2 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:15 pm
and it showed why system was not staying at 5.0 mhz it was bouncing around which means bios settings were ignored and mint used a power saver.
BIOS settings weren't ignored per se. A sane default was used instead. This might help you understand what was happening: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/CP ... cy_scaling

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:33 pm
by RollyShed
ThrashZone2 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:15 pm
Hi,
Problem is if any of you genius's would of looked up the......
Could it possibly be the poor grammar and sentences not really making sense that leads to some misinterpreting what the problem really is?

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:36 pm
by Lady Fitzgerald
Pjotr wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:43 pm
Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:06 pm
not being able to understand the FM due to the technical jargon, the FM is missing some steps, or has steps that tell you to do something without telling you how to do it. :roll:
Yes, that's an ancient problem.... In fact, that was the main reason why I started my own documentation, back in 2008 or so. :mrgreen:
I do the same thing. It's saved my ample asset more than once.

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:10 am
by MurphCID
Pjotr wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:43 pm
Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:06 pm
not being able to understand the FM due to the technical jargon, the FM is missing some steps, or has steps that tell you to do something without telling you how to do it. :roll:
Yes, that's an ancient problem.... In fact, that was the main reason why I started my own documentation, back in 2008 or so. :mrgreen:
And it is brilliant! Saved me a couple of times. My issue with the FM was like that of Lady Fitzgerald, you could not understand it at times, and steps were missing. So there was utter frustration.

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:24 am
by Lady Fitzgerald
MurphCID wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:10 am
...utter frustration.
Polite term. :wink:

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:29 am
by MurphCID
Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:24 am
MurphCID wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:10 am
...utter frustration.
Polite term. :wink:
Agreed. Lots of bad language included.

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:17 am
by Lady Fitzgerald
MurphCID wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:29 am
Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:24 am
MurphCID wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:10 am
...utter frustration.
Polite term. :wink:
Agreed. Lots of bad language included.
You mean those words that our Mamas "told" us not to use?

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:19 am
by MurphCID
Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:17 am
MurphCID wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:29 am
Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:24 am


Polite term. :wink:
Agreed. Lots of bad language included.
You mean those words that our Mamas "told" us not to use?
Precisely! Words like Gosh Darn! Heck! Mother Trucker! and similar ilk.

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:56 am
by Barbados99
Lady Fitzgerald wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:06 pm
MurphCID wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:58 am
...Plus there is STILL after all these years too darn much RTFM attitude by many.
Even more frustrating is being told that, then not being able to understand the FM due to the technical jargon, the FM is missing some steps, or has steps that tell you to do something without telling you how to do it. :roll:
I agree but I've personally experienced a learning curve challenge with pretty much all of the technology devices in my life - and confusing manuals that I didn't understand. LOL, I still struggle with the bazillion button remote controls in my life. I feel like I have the IQ of a monkey some days. It's not a Linux Mint exclusive thing is what I'm trying to say. But regarding Linux in general I've invested a lot of time over many years, going back to the miid-1990s, trying to learn what I can so I can use the technology. I still have PTSD I think from trying to figure out Red Hat in 1995. Holy moley it was hard for me. Regarding Mint in particular, I too have steadily recorded my own "how to" folder of files that I use. It's not so much a manual, but an accumulation of notes, steps, setup files and stuff that makes it easier to be my own system administrator. I'm not an I.T. guy. I'm just an old fart trying to enjoy the technology in my life as best I can. My wife and I have always been on a tight budget so having access to a free OS and free software has been a huge benefit from the time we were raising our children to now when we are living on a modest fixed income.

I treasure this Mint forum though.

I get into trouble from time to time and the good people here have always helped me (I've asked a lot of dumb questions over the years, but people have been very patient with me). Yes, there is work required to learn this stuff. Hey, that's part of life. Nobody gets promised "easy" in life. There's a learning curve to most things. At least that's been my experience.

And if people want to use a different distro or operating system, hey, go for it. Personally I really don't care if other people like something different. I don't care if Mint (or Linux) is "popular" with others. It serves me well. It serves a lot of others well, but not everyone is going to like it. That's okay.

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:10 am
by jShumway00
majpooper wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:46 pm
jShumway00 wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:44 pm
Okay, I speak from personal experience . . . .
Mostly I think a lot of newbie Linux users quit out of frustration.
Although anecdotal a vivid description and great example of the problem. How many new would be linux users would even get past the first fiasco that jShumway00experienced before giving up on linux. I found the Zorin episode interesting because I thought the $39 24/7 phone support for new installs business model was designed to overcome the frustration factor - I guess not. Short of OEM linux pre-installed on new hardware linux is not going to compete as a DIY competitor to pre-installed Windows and Mac OS. The reality is most new users just want to shove in a USB or DVD and make some mouse clicks because that's how they "do it" with Windows or Mac.

jShumway00 aptly points out a few very basic obstacles that cause new people to give up on linux;
1.) most non-savvy computer users are not even going to know how to burn a bootable .iso USB/DVD.
2.) and if they do get a bootable .iso chances are there will be installation issues. How many of those folks even know what a BIOS is? And if it's a Mac . . . .
3.) and somehow if they get it installed but they have Realtec WiFi or Nvidia driver issues or need to set up a home network or keep getting a black screen or so on and so forth they have no idea where to get support let alone how to even articulate their issue.
Yeah at the moment my cell phone was out so calling for support was out of the question, but good points!