Why do new people give up on Linux?

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Rich.Carpenter
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Rich.Carpenter »

Various issues getting hardware to work over the years has been my biggest hurdle to fully adopting Linux (well, aside from the fact that my job involves Windows development exclusively).

One thing that goes a long way toward keeping Windows on top for a lot of people? Setup.exe for just about anything you might need to install. Sure, I can install apps using the appropriate software manager for my distro, but everything else involves downloading a .tar file and expanding it on my system with just the right tar command and creating my own shortcut or other means of starting the program. It shouldn't be that involved a process. Setting up a Qt Creator development environment was a major pain. Who would have thought that simply installing the IDE doesn't install what one needs to actually start programming? It does in Windows.

Anyway, the more familiar I become with these sorts of idiosyncrasies in Linux, the more I find myself using it. That said, a new user would still find a much shorter learning curve with a Windows system. Linux still just feels like a server geek's OS that is trying to masquerade as a desktop OS too.

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sahilshinesalways
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by sahilshinesalways »

Rich.Carpenter wrote:Various issues getting hardware to work over the years has been my biggest hurdle to fully adopting Linux (well, aside from the fact that my job involves Windows development exclusively).

One thing that goes a long way toward keeping Windows on top for a lot of people? Setup.exe for just about anything you might need to install. Sure, I can install apps using the appropriate software manager for my distro, but everything else involves downloading a .tar file and expanding it on my system with just the right tar command and creating my own shortcut or other means of starting the program. It shouldn't be that involved a process. Setting up a Qt Creator development environment was a major pain. Who would have thought that simply installing the IDE doesn't install what one needs to actually start programming? It does in Windows.

Anyway, the more familiar I become with these sorts of idiosyncrasies in Linux, the more I find myself using it. That said, a new user would still find a much shorter learning curve with a Windows system. Linux still just feels like a server geek's OS that is trying to masquerade as a desktop OS too.
are'nt u familier with .deb and .rpm files?they work like exe and in some respect easier,ya the only hardle comes is satisfying dependency hells,but for comercial apps like avast4(for linux),osmos,crossover and world of goo(demo) worked with no dep hell.time is making things evolve for better and better..
sign-sahil the hiccup
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Rich.Carpenter
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Rich.Carpenter »

sahilshinesalways wrote:
Rich.Carpenter wrote:Various issues getting hardware to work over the years has been my biggest hurdle to fully adopting Linux (well, aside from the fact that my job involves Windows development exclusively).

One thing that goes a long way toward keeping Windows on top for a lot of people? Setup.exe for just about anything you might need to install. Sure, I can install apps using the appropriate software manager for my distro, but everything else involves downloading a .tar file and expanding it on my system with just the right tar command and creating my own shortcut or other means of starting the program. It shouldn't be that involved a process. Setting up a Qt Creator development environment was a major pain. Who would have thought that simply installing the IDE doesn't install what one needs to actually start programming? It does in Windows.

Anyway, the more familiar I become with these sorts of idiosyncrasies in Linux, the more I find myself using it. That said, a new user would still find a much shorter learning curve with a Windows system. Linux still just feels like a server geek's OS that is trying to masquerade as a desktop OS too.
are'nt u familier with .deb and .rpm files?
I am now. They work great, as long as the software is provided in that format. More often than not, it is, but it's often enough not the case.

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Dave68
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Dave68 »

I am now. They work great, as long as the software is provided in that format. More often than not, it is, but it's often enough not the case.
I guess the next question would be:

What are you trying to install as a .exe?

I'm sure you could find great alternatives in the Mint Repos (Software Manager). Worst case, you could install WINE, which runs a lot of Windows.exe programs.

There is also PlayOnLinux. You could even run a dual-boot system. It's Linux, the choice is yours.

The alternatives are out there, and Wine maintains a database of applications they have tested, and how they fared.

Good Luck,
Dave
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sahilshinesalways
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by sahilshinesalways »

so many people so many opnions and views thus so many distros.....
but if we anaylise down to the root of similar problem in all distro's is : LACK OF STANDARD
I m in LOVE with LINUX no doubt....but this problem really hurts me....
whenever a new technology/software or something is developed which is slightly better then the existing platform its directly imlemented(in general).it might be better no doubt but i guess we should allow any software/technology to get mature bfore implementing.

simple problem that a newbie*(with sound knowledge) may suffer:
1>to may choices:i know its helpfull but if we follow K.I.S.S. Priciple,its preety useless,
2>welll this senerio is changing,but new projects are still hav same problem: lack of systematic and long term approch
3>too many script:its good i love it...but many dont.for evry problem we can google it,find some script,copy paste:u are done...why arent the script available in the manual?
3>html manual?there is good number of manual in every edition of linux,but mostly we have to view it via terminal.why arent html manual are supplied?its easier a lot,more readable and easier for newbie
4>publcity: realy realy saddest thing a linux can have...openoffice,vlc,xmbc,firefox,thunderbird....endlist list of outstanding open source program,but how many windows user knows their favorate program is available in linux?
why not a trade marks is used in the repective softare
like "XYZ version 1.x OSS recomands linux"

I really dont understand why point 4 is not followed. M no brainny fellow,the peoples of oss knows business and programs far better then me,but i guess its no harm giving linux gettin a trademark wich is the biggest open source entity

umm... if i have made any mistake pardon me,have written things based on my experience,i just wana c linux getting bigger n bigger
Last edited by sahilshinesalways on Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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inktitan
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by inktitan »

sahilshinesalways , and others
I see your point and know where you are coming from on point 1. But I have to disagree with the implied point, if you mean to say that Linux should reduce options to make it easier to use. Macs are notorious in the casual PC world (yes Macs are PCs by definition) for being reliable and nearly fail proof. This is because you have only Three options White Mac, Black Mac, Silver Mac. You do not get to choose a video card, monitor, RAM, or even a different CPU. Oh, and forget about trying to upgrade you hard drive. You are also limited to which software you are allowed to install. That's right Steve will dictate what software you are permitted to have. Ironic that everyone says Windows is Big Brother. Now for the non-casual PC users, the more techno savvy, There is always a way around these things. But it is not made so easy and is usually called "jail breaking" so it sounds almost illegal. But it is not, most of the time. Linux may have a lot of problem because it is free and open. Look at any government that allows freedom. Things tend not to run so smoothly all the time. But to remove the freedom is to remove the elegance :wink: And a world without freedom is a world I want no part of. You probably didn't mean point one as I interpreted it, but in case you did I felt obligated to defend multiple choice 8) . I agree with point 2. I like the long term distros. I do update my PC everyday and get sad when no updates are available but going to a distro.new-latest every six months has pushed me toward Mint Debian. But I see the logic in massive updates every few months I just think they should be something like service packs(forgive me). Though saying the New Mint will draw more attention than Massive Update Bundle for Mint. point 3 is dead on and a PDF manual does exist for Mint and Slackware. Ubuntu sells a book at computer/electronics stores. If you mean the man pages I agree they should be a little easier to read regardless of the format.extension. With a few more examples of how to use the particular command you are inquiring about. Point 4 i agree with also. I would love to see more advertising for some Linux compatible software, but it cost money and that is the bottom line. If you can't pay for it you have to settle with what you can get. Back to point 1 K.I.S.S. is a good philosophy and there are distros out there that do that. Damn Small Linux is very basic and simple, so long as you don't want to upgrade or change the font or resolution. It has very few choices and only takes up 50MB of space. But how many people have heard of it yet alone use it? I think people come to Linux for the freedom of choice but are intimidated at first by how many choices there are.
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Rich.Carpenter
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Rich.Carpenter »

Dave68 wrote:
I am now. They work great, as long as the software is provided in that format. More often than not, it is, but it's often enough not the case.
I guess the next question would be:

What are you trying to install as a .exe?
Of course I'm not trying to install anything from .exe's. I said setup programs (setup.exe) tend to make things easy in Windows. I don't have that luxury in Linux if a particular app isn't current in the repository for my distro.
Dave68 wrote:I'm sure you could find great alternatives in the Mint Repos (Software Manager). Worst case, you could install WINE, which runs a lot of Windows.exe programs.

There is also PlayOnLinux. You could even run a dual-boot system. It's Linux, the choice is yours.

The alternatives are out there, and Wine maintains a database of applications they have tested, and how they fared.

Good Luck,
Dave
Thanks. I have no interest in emulators (I know, Wine Is Not an Emulator). I don't have to do that in Windows, so I'm shooting for similar convenience in Linux. I've just about found a happy medium.

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sahilshinesalways
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by sahilshinesalways »

[quote="inktitan"]sahilshinesalways , and others
......

ya i meant the man pages.by point 4 i actually meant open source advertizements...
look at sun(now oracle's),if one install java,they are going to see open office's advertizement,

i guess we the gpl/lgpl lincence is little edited,in the sence a trademark of linux os is given to the softwares running in cross platforms i guess it will have a very positive impact.in my rough survey of 49 people(all knows abt pc),i found all knows windows 7worked atleat once in linux,5 heard terrile stories and nitemares abt linux so they never used and 3 dont kno what is linux( :evil: )

i wod luv to see linux trademarks in windows installer.
currently i found kingstone pendrives have linux 2.6+ adverts in its compitible list in the cover...i guess its a very good sign...indirect adverts :mrgreen:
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Theologian

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Theologian »

Theologian wrote:
Elisa wrote:
Theologian wrote:...KDE is a bag of bling
confused r u talkin' about? :shock:
... :evil:
Actually, I must amend that statement:
Having solved a some significant problems I encountered with #! (to be expected, as warned) by installing LM9 Fluxbox, updating, etc., I've found that the engine is running just fine.
Some of the apps I wanted required KDE apps, which I've found to be very good indeed, so far - even if things became a bit 'floaty' until I sorted them out.
Apparently KDE is one of the most user-friendly DEs (?), apparently Linus Torvalds prefers it (?), & certainly it is the default DE for many Linux distros, not to mention BSD (KDE seems to be a universal standard for all 'flavors').
I don't have the RAM to run KDE efficiently, & I wouldn't buy RAM for the sake of a desktop, given that I prefer a windows manager, but I do seem to have a '####Box' with a lot of K underneath - & on top: I'm writing this on Konqueror.
I have a very nice green & blue environment - LM-K9? Kisadora? - without the 'bouncy things' that give me vertigo. :mrgreen:

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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Elisa »

:lol:
I am really glad that you u end this year with agreeing with me... :lol:
Linux/Unix is about freedom, Windows about slavery.

md5 / sha1 check [how-to for NEWBIES] :idea:

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Agent Twelve
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Agent Twelve »

Hi Friends,

I have been reading the many replies here and I would like to share if I may.

I was tipped to Linux (particularly Ubuntu) from Murlu's post here. As a fledgling freelance writer / entrepreneur (read: cheap - ahem), I used the Wubi to try Ubuntu and amazed by the beauty of Linux. The only trouble I bumped into is the pesky wireless connectivity with Ubuntu that frustrated me. As I tried to read forums and get ideas on making wireless work, I was beginning to feel like I was trying to split the atom. I shrugged off Ubuntu - never to dawn upon Linux's shores again.

A few months later, I stumbled around an article about Windows XP (which I had ran on my computer for about 7 years). In essence, the author stated that with the technological tides shifting so fast that Win XP is like an old battleship filled with holes. This opened my eyes. I realised I needed to find my cheese elsewhere (bonus points for any reader who knows what book I'm referred to by the aforementioned term. :) )

I typed into Startpage.com the term "different types of Linux OS" and found websites that were giving glowing reviews on Mint. So sheepishly, I tried Mint virtually and really liked it. During the install process, I lost Win XP (I was going to keep as a dual boot). Shrugging my shoulders, I decided to wipe all of the existence of XP and go Mint all the way.

So the round about answer is that the wireless component made me shy away from Linux yet now I know that I need to be patient and stay humble to learn Linux and all its nuisances - maybe, just maybe I can get wireless to work with Mint.
Freedom is upon us...

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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by jroa »

Who Moved My Cheese?

Sorry to hear that you lost XP, although many times people think they lost it, it is actually still there.

In Mint, you can run GParted to see if the Windows partition is still intact, and if so, you can still access it. Menu==>Admistration==>GParted or sudo gparted from the terminal. Post a screen shot and we can try to figure it out for you.

If you are still having trouble with wireless, make a new post and I am sure that people will be happy to help you. Just make sure to specify that you are new and need the steps broken down into bite sized bits. Good luck.

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Agent Twelve
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Agent Twelve »

Hi Jroa,

I used GParted (which solved two issues actually...thanks for the advice):

1. Allowed me to access my portable HD in order to delete linux files that I accidentally placed there.

2. Checked to see if Win XP was still there...nope...the witch is dead. :mrgreen:

I will definitely consider the post about wireless. Right now, I am taking baby steps.
Freedom is upon us...

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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by bibo38 »

I downloaded Mint Julia.

Doesn't work. Neither as a w7 programme nor as a boot dvd.

Hash is ok.

Now, I used many years ago a version of Linux that came on 16 FFD and was version 0.9. I got it working simply because I had the time and inclination. And Linux offered features that MS did not have.

Why is that twenty years later one still finds the same problems.

For example, the boot DVD runs "Loading /casper/vmlinuz .. /casper/initrd.lz .. Ready" than nothing, nothing, nothing.

Run Mint as a programme boot Mint get the message "Completing the Linux Mint installation .. For more options (Why?) .. 0" than nothing, nothing.

Sure I could go around trying to hack into the grub file or wherever .. but why should I since w7 is working and offers these days all, or at least most of the things, I want

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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by inktitan »

bibo38 wrote:I downloaded Mint Julia.

Doesn't work. Neither as a w7 programme nor as a boot dvd.

Hash is ok.

Now, I used many years ago a version of Linux that came on 16 FFD and was version 0.9. I got it working simply because I had the time and inclination. And Linux offered features that MS did not have.

Why is that twenty years later one still finds the same problems.

For example, the boot DVD runs "Loading /casper/vmlinuz .. /casper/initrd.lz .. Ready" than nothing, nothing, nothing.

Run Mint as a programme boot Mint get the message "Completing the Linux Mint installation .. For more options (Why?) .. 0" than nothing, nothing.

Sure I could go around trying to hack into the grub file or wherever .. but why should I since w7 is working and offers these days all, or at least most of the things, I want


This may be the very root of why the new give up on Linux. Windows has what they want. If this is the case why ever try something else?
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Prooz
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Prooz »

It's not so strange really. When they can't even change web browser how do you expect them to have the courage to change OS?

Opera FTW!
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Theologian

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Theologian »

Elisa wrote::lol:
I am really glad that you u end this year with agreeing with me... :lol:
I may have to agree with you this year, on principle :lol:
inktitan wrote:This may be the very root of why the new give up on Linux. Windows has what they want. If this is the case why ever try something else?
That's not giving up; that's not even trying; that's not even being bothered to look; & that's precisely the sort of person who probably shouldn't even try Abiword or Firefox :lol:

Happy New Year :D

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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by inktitan »

Theologian,
First off Happy New Year. Second what I meant was that people for what ever reason no longer want to pay for Windows or they have that deep rooted human need to explore starting to come to the surface. So they set out to try something new but when it does not function like they are use to they will abandon it because they are not true explorers but more akin to imperialists. They want to have as much as they can but with little effort. When the truth is that for their purposes Windows is adequate and they don't need Linux. I have also noticed at school ( ITT-Tech) that a lot of people will brag about how they "used" or "tried" Linux and they found it to be nonfunctional. When I ask them a few basic question such as "which distro did you use?" They can't even answer or they will say one I have never used or heard of but usually just one. So people may give up simply because they are not aware of the options.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Elisa »

inktitan wrote:...
+1
:lol:
Linux/Unix is about freedom, Windows about slavery.

md5 / sha1 check [how-to for NEWBIES] :idea:

Score: 43 I have some hippie in me. Cool, man 8)
Take the elitemrp.net "Are you a Hippie?" Test

Theologian

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by Theologian »

inktitan wrote:...
+11 :lol:

I was lucky to have friends who introduced me to Linux via Ubuntu. I've tested & given up on many, simply because they don't work with my hardware, some don't even work with my USB mobile broadband - netbook targeted ones in particular :?
Hardware incompatibility is a valid reason to give up on A particular distro, but not on the entire genre.

But once I'd tried Ubuntu, I had the taste, which led to LinuxMint & Crunchbang & other Debian-based, which I prefer, & ever since that first taste, anything from M$W is inadequate, unreliable & frustrating to use. I don't understand why large establishments that need high security continue to use such a slow, vulnerable system, & I certainly don't miss those '.exe installation wizards' :evil:

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