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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:47 am
by Aethyr
vboxmint12usb wrote:Here are some off the top of head reasons:

Mint12 virtualbox usb support flat doesnt work
Looks like that fightclub rule #1
No help on chat
The All virtualbox says:
The file you opened has some invalid characters.
The oracle ubuntu .deb does not work with Mint
No combination of format reinstall, useradd, extensionpack#?, guestadditons

Also, you can't drag program shortcuts to the desktop. On the ubuntu offtopic, the idiotbox on the left is always in the way of the left close button. Formatting the disk for separate partitions is completely unintuitive & mounting is a hassle to figure out even from a fresh install. Command lines are not easily or quickly findable. Packages in Manger are often incompatible, buggy, and several other headaches that take too much time to list or deal with...
So the reason people quit is because of virtualbox... I was always wondering :lol:

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:16 am
by bimsebasse
Proper alternatives for Word, iTunes (and ĀµTorrent). Personally I get by fine with Abiword, Banshee and Transmission but my Linux victim is struggling somewhat to make do with Linux alternatives and I'll certainly agree with her the alternatives aren't on the same level. Libreoffice needs an interface overhaul, better dictionaries and grammar tools, and though half of the Linux music players are iTunes ripoffs more or less, none of them really match it yet. And that's not really going into things that just work on a laptop Windows install that occasionally don't on a Linux install (like function keys, screen brightness setting, special media buttons). I think Linux will only really take off when manufacturers make sure their products have Linux drivers as well as Windows drivers - doesn't look like it's happening other than very, very slowly.

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:31 pm
by Koninator
podagee wrote:what does years have to do with anything.things evolve.look around and you will,lifestytles,cars,technology,etc.either keep up or get left behind. :D
Cars are the same as they were from 100 years ago. If you move steering wheel to left car goes left. If you press brake it stops. Now if someone would insert joystick in car instead of the wheel, nobody would buy that car.

Fashion? Who cares about that? On serous note old stuff from 70s are becoming popular again. Also clothes are made from... cotton, which is weary old material. So why we don't use something newer? Because it works, perfectly fine!

Technology? 100 years back we used wooden tablets in school, now we are beginning to use tablets again.

Houses are made from wood, concrete,... all weary old materials, have you seen house made from carbon/optic fibers or some more advanced material?

If you have one solution which works perfectly why you would change it?

You are computer geek/expert/fanatic, you like new stuff but most of the population don't. Gnome 3 will be used in future (probably), but change wont happen over night. So give people time to adapt.

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:30 pm
by Koninator
Aethyr wrote:So the reason people quit is because of virtualbox... I was always wondering :lol:
It is possible, some of new users probably test Linux beforehand in virtual box or some other virtualization software.
I first installed Linux on virtual box, because I needed it for my school. After some time I installed it on hard drive.

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:50 am
by frodopogo
I haven't QUITE given up on Linux, but I'll share the things that have gotten me close.

Background... I got into computers in 1990... and I have a fair amount of DOS command line experience,
then got into GeoWorks (fast alternative GUI in the early 90's) so I'm prone to rooting for underdog OS's.
Finally (and reluctantly) got into Windows 95 (in about 1998), Windows 98 in about 2002, and XP in about 2006.

I'm a musician, which is a big part of why I got into computers in the first place.
The reason for migrating to Linux was:
1. Hearing about Knoppix ability to boot from CD
2. A friend using and talking about using Ubuntu.
3. Two of my favorite music sites getting hacked, and getting a virus from one of them.
4. Getting tired of the time expended dealing with virus checkers and Windows system cleaners.
5. Did some research on DistroWatch, and Mint seemed like the most friendly for a Windows refugee like me.
6. Started with Elyssa, since upgraded to Isadora.

Things that have tempted me to give up on Linux:
1. Problems with video drivers, or with things that don't seem like video driver problems, but are.
Someone gave me a laptop, and I had a tough time getting Mint to fill the whole screen.
2. For a long time after installing Isadora, every 4th of 5th time I booted, the mouse pointer would be invisible, but still function when it would highlight something. I bought two different new mice, thinking it was the mouse. Finally installed the nVidia driver- problem solved.
3. Sound... in Elyssa, I had a lot of problems with sound- I have had a USB interface since before using Linux Mint, and the whole way sound is run in Linux seems counterintuitive and a bit flaky.
4. Music Programs. Finally, people buy a computer to use programs. In switching to Linux, you have to USUALLY resign yourself to kissing your familiar Windows programs good-bye. This was somewhat easier for me since I have been using Audacity and Firefox for some time.
And Open Office/LibreOffice is mostly fine for word processing. But there are still other programs that I want, BUT:
They are hard to find (poorly advertised)... I keep running across stuff that I think... why didn't I hear about this???.
When I find them, sometimes they need to be compiled, which I have not yet learned to do... so fergitaboutit.
Other times, when I finally find them (and it may be the only example of the program I have found to date) I find that it is buggier than all-get-out!
I found some notation software, and three times, I clicked on a menu item, and it caused the program to terminate!
Recently, I found a guitar amp emulator for Linux, tried to run it, but it needs JACK, and jack won't run.
Reason... /etc/security/limits.conf needs to be edited, but it's read only, and I need special permissions to do that... I THINK I found the answer, and am trying to get up the gumption to do it.
DOS was challenging, but Terminal in Linux combined with the security hoops you have to jump through is MADDENING!
Because of my DOS experience, I usually force myself to bite the bullet and open Terminal, but I HATE IT!!!
And so often, fixing a problem in Linux means dealing with the terminal.
But you could say the Linux Terminal is TERMINALLY USER UNFRIENDLY.
The commands are less like English than the DOS commands, and often much, much, longer.
5. While the Linux Forums are mostly very friendly, they are NOT very easy to navigate or to find information in.

The recurring feeling I have using Linux is "trying to find a needle in a haystack".
Just finding Mint among all the other distros is like "trying to find a needle in a haystack".
Trying to find the software I need is like "trying to find a needle in a haystack".
Trying to find answers in this forum is like "trying to find a needle in a haystack".
Trying to use Terminal is like "trying to find a needle in a haystack".
The original meaning of YAHOO was "you always have other options"... with Linux, it seems like you nearly ALWAYS HAVE TOO MANY OTHER OPTIONS... except maybe for good reliable software choices.

Years ago in a computer magazine, Jim Seymour had an article about "Fascist Software",
and the idea was that "fascist software" was software that, instead of allowing you to do work the way you wanted to,
forced you to do your work ITS way. Very often Microsoft software is like that.
And Linux, with it's security layers is sometimes very "Fascist"... lots of security hoops to jump through.
In Windows, I waste time dealing with viruses and virus checkers, and unhelpfully helpful things like "Do you know you have unused icons on your desktop???"
in Linux, I waste time jumping through hoops designed to hinder viruses.

Anyway, with my DOS experience and basically good computer skills, and long term loathing of Microsoft and the way it and it's software operates, I'm still tempted to BAIL on Linux and I know that a lot of the things I've experienced, a more typical Windows user would have gone back to Windows long ago.

When I look around at the Linux world, I see WAY too much effort going into reinventing the wheel with endless respins of this and that OS version, and all these competing desktops.
I think some kind of focus needs to be put on making sure that all the software in the repositories:
1. Is as bug free as the operating system itself, or as close as possible
2. Can be installed without resorting to Terminal.
In addition, if there is useful software that needs to be compiled to run, it should be compiled and put in the repositories.
3. There needs to be some kind of separation in repositories between what I would call "normal" software for normal people, and what I would call "geekware"- stuff only useful for scientists or programmers or IT techs.... ANOTHER "needle in a haystack" situation!

Hardware. Something needs to be done to minimize hardware headaches.

Many people probably migrate to Linux after their Windows computer is about 5 years old,
and really needs a reinstall of the operating system or Microsoft is trying to force them to upgrade to the new version of Windows,
which may mean major hardware upgrades or a new computer.
Linux versions need to be targeted to run FLAWLESSLY on the most common hardware from between 5 and 10 years ago, and potential Linux users need to be advised that if they want a flawless Linux experience, they may need to sell their old computer, and buy a used one in one of those guaranteed configurations. IDEA... Linux distros should advertise what kinds of computers and other hardware the distro was tested on so, in case someone does have hardware problems, they have a good idea about what other computers would work better.
Hmmm... a thought just occurred to me.... you know, I don't think the same kinds of computers get marketed all over the globe... many of the best and most important Linux distros are in Europe or the U.K..... could that mean that those Linux distros are most likely to work best on the computers commonly sold in the British or European markets? Perhaps Linux distros need to regionalize according to the kinds of computer hardware most likely to be found.

I ran across a thread here last night with a theme similar to this one, and there were WAY too many Linux geeks saying "Use the terminal- it's a piece of cake- it's a powerful tool! etc.".
I used DOS back in the day, and in Windows, you can STILL drop down to DOS if you REALLY want to... but it was really amazing- from the time I started using Windows 95... I NEVER NEEDED TO!!!!
Telling a former Windows user to "Use the Terminal" is tantamount to telling them to take a flying leap at the Moon!!!
For a former Windows user, EVERY TIME a Linux distro forces you to use the Terminal to fix a problem...

Oh yeah.... I'm a musician.... when I'm being musical, I'm right brained. When I'm writing, I'm right-brained. When I'm learning or speaking a foreign language, I'm right brained.
But I can switch. When I used to do my own minor auto repairs, I would get into left-brained analytical mode.
When I got into DOS, and write batch files, I would shift into left brain mode. When I attempt to record myself playing music,
I have a hard time, because I have to shift into left brain analytical mode to pretend to be a sound engineer, but back into creative right brained mode to play music well. It's getting harder and harder for me to switch back and forth as I get older, and many people CAN'T SWITCH AT ALL. Probably many of you who are good at using Terminal are "left-brained" and think somewhat analytically ALL THE TIME. You really don't have any idea what it's like for someone who is primarily right-brained to function with a computer. For "right brained" people NOT USING THE GUI IS NOT AN OPTION!!!! Telling such a person to use the terminal is "like teaching a pig to sing- the results are unsatisfactory- and it annoys the pig!!!" I am way more comfortable and at home in "right brain mode" and I HATE, ABSOLUTELY HATE how often Linux makes me shift into the left brain.... imagine what it's like then for those who can't shift at all. :shock:
In effect, Linux needs to retrace Apple Computers steps into GUIs- "Computers for the rest of us" (IOW- for non-geeks!)
I'm pretty sure Clement gets this...that's why Mint is as user friendly as it is.... but I'm NOT so sure about many of the rest of you! :roll:
It's not that I don't appreciate computer geeks (including Linux geeks) and all the hard and difficult work they do- but in order to make Linux accessible, you HAVE to understand- MOST of us CAN'T think like you think.... and if we CAN a little, like me, we do it REALLY SLOWLY and are REALLY UNHAPPY CAMPERS while we're doing it!

Hmmm... another idea...
ANOTHER reason why people give up on Linux.
With Windows, until I got too far behind in versions (or the versions got too complex- I was often the "computer guru" for my family and many of my friends. Sometimes it's just easiest to have someone look at your computer and diagnose what's wrong... especially if the computer won't work and you can't get on-line!!!
I think I might know ONE person in my town who I could go to about a Linux problem, and he's a busy man, setting up used computers for schools. IOW- there just aren't enough local Linux geeks to go to for help.

Oh yeah... I blog a lot on one of my music forums (we have personal pages there) and a few months ago I blogged about switching to Linux...
ONE guy on the whole forum responded as a fellow Linux user!!!! One lady responded- she is a computer whiz- but her business is helping Windows users with problems... so the motivation for her $$$$ is to stay with Windows.

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:37 am
by 3fRI
Frodopogo, I think you raise some valid points.

In sum, I think many, if not most, new users give up on Linux because they think it's too much work to get up to speed and STAY up to speed with using Linux. For them, it's far more convenient to go out and buy a Mac (if they can afford one) or a Windows box, plug it in, and they're up and running with little fuss. They don't care if their computers are loaded with bloatware that they may never use.

Personally, I like the challenge of learning new things and learning how to get a computer to work the way I want to. Best of all, the distros and apps I use are FOSS! That said, I'd be very hesitant to try a Linux distro that requires advanced CLI. :roll:

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:27 pm
by Linuxephus
Excellent reading and comments ladies and gentlemen.
So much so that I'm quite certain this is one instance where I personally have nothing to comment with reading as All or most of the bases have been covered accordingly.

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:12 pm
by iwearspecs
It's not just "new people" who give up on linux.
I used it for a few years as my only desktop OS. Not Mint but I used Slackware and I've used most of the major distros.
I "gave up" in 2007 and have never really looked back.
I did enjoy tinkering and fixing. I did enjoy the command line. I enjoyed compiling my own software and kernels.
Then one day I stopped and thought, "where is all this getting me?"
I spent more time getting things working than actually working myself!
I still try out distros now and then but nothing has changed.
There's too much fragmentation and, I know you won't like this, but there is such a thing as too much choice.
Way too many distros, forks of this, forks of that, Mate, Cinnamon, bloated buggy KDE, Unity, Gnome 3, XFCE, LXDE etc etc.
I don't think as many "new people" give as don't even get started. For the simple reason they don't really know where to start.

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:10 am
by monkeyboy
iwearspecs wrote:It's not just "new people" who give up on linux.
I used it for a few years as my only desktop OS. Not Mint but I used Slackware and I've used most of the major distros.
I "gave up" in 2007 and have never really looked back.
I did enjoy tinkering and fixing. I did enjoy the command line. I enjoyed compiling my own software and kernels.
Then one day I stopped and thought, "where is all this getting me?"
I spent more time getting things working than actually working myself!
I still try out distros now and then but nothing has changed.
There's too much fragmentation and, I know you won't like this, but there is such a thing as too much choice.
Way too many distros, forks of this, forks of that, Mate, Cinnamon, bloated buggy KDE, Unity, Gnome 3, XFCE, LXDE etc etc.
I don't think as many "new people" give as don't even get started. For the simple reason they don't really know where to start.
Let me see you gave up on Linux in 2007 but you are still trolling sites to complain about things. Dude get a life.

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:46 am
by exploder
I almost gave up on Linux last year because I had graphics card issues with just about every distro. PCLinuxOS changed my mind because it just worked. I have noticed that a lot of my friends give up on Linux because they expect it to be like a free version of Windows. People have difficulty understanding package management too. On a good note, Mint, Ubuntu and other distributions that have a Software Center type of app are solving the issue of package management. People are used to using an app store on their phones and the software centers some distros provide are very similar. Graphics card drivers have improved quite a bit recently too.

People using Android on their tablets and cell phones has helped people to adjust to using Linux on their pc too. Linux seems to be gaining more and more support lately. I see more applications and games available for purchase, that's a good sign. Everything just takes time and patience.

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:42 am
by neon_overload
Ah crap, this topic is 37 pages already so I doubt many people are going to read this.

People don't quite understand that with Linux, you don't just go out and buy applications for it like Microsoft Office, etc and install them.

With Linux, almost all the applications you need to run with it are available from a repository offered by the Linux distribution itself.

Until they understand this, newbies to Linux will try to do things like install VLC from a .rpm or .deb off the official website, or even (heaven forbid) compiling it from source following some dreadful online tutorial, even if a stable, tested version of VLC is available directly from the repos. If they are tasked with installing Apache they'll do it the way they did it on Windows; download some version of it from the Apache website and try and follow the installation instructions (which are naturally, "way more complicated" than on Windows because they involve configure, make etc and getting that right).

I've even seen Linux newbies compiling their own kernel because they want some piece of hardware to run properly. Never mind the existence of both pre-built and DKMS-style modules for their existing kernel are supplied by their distribution.

This is the primary thing, in my opinion, that people don't understand about Linux and turns them off.

"Software Centre" is doing a lot to fix this issue. Hope it gets increasingly beginner-friendly. I don't mind - I know how to use apt-get, aptitude, etc.

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:14 am
by Kevin108
One possible reason to give up on Linux is that it doesn't work right off the bat. My system is old but by the specs, my Nvidia 6800 should work with the Neauvou driver. Something about the interaction between it and ACPI causes freezing for me so for any given install, I have to disable ACPI to boot, install the Nvidia drivers, then reboot with ACPI enabled. Aside from my rock-solid Mint 11 install that I don't fool with, I try a number of distros to continue to learn and to check out the latest and greatest.

Sometime this month, I'll hit the 6 month mark. I'm really ready to build a new system so I can take advantage of modern hardware and comfortably run modern distros but I have a wedding / honeymoon to afford towards the end of the year. Early next year though, I'll be ready for a major upgrade. I plan to build a Hackintosh as that would give me the flexibility to run virtually anything. In the meantime, I'll stick with my simple Mint 11 install, possibly moving on to Mint Debian. Mint Debian is incredibly fast but has some minor issues that keep me from making the jump. Mint 12 Gnome is slow. Mint 12 KDE looks lousy on my setup.

Continuing down the Distrowatch Top 10: Modern iterations of Ubuntu are VERY slow. Fedora boots and gives up; installing the Nvidia drivers is a real chore compared to the Debian-based distros. I can't get openSUSE to boot from any media. Debian's installer gave up in the middle of the process. Arch won't boot. Mageia is nice but I'm waiting on it to get out of beta. I haven't tried CentOS but I suspect I'd see issues similar to Fedora. Puppy isn't enough distro for me. PCLinux is too much.

So in a dozen distros/flavors, I really only have a couple choices. I got lucky and landed on Mint 11, which is probably what has kept me using Linux.

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:44 am
by podagee
its been awhile since ive been at these forums.recently,about the past month and a half,ive been getting really frustrated with all linux distros.always one pesty issue.i love linux but in my opinion,its getting rather boring.i bounce a lot from distro to distro to find something that suites me.i havent found it yet because once i customize it to my liking i find it rather boring.i have a windows 7 partition on my comp.,but,even that i hardly mess wanting to see a distro by far different from others,but,eventually they all end up the got a bunch of distros with pretty much the same things just different,(yep im back on mint 12),has done a superb job.especially with cinammon.hopefully by mint 13's release they'll spice it up a bit more.but to the almost ready to give up on the operating system thing.dont matter if its mac,windows,or linux.what we need is a breath of fresh air,meaning something to come out that none of us expect.

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:17 am
by frodopogo
I think you have to be careful not to expect a computer operating system to do something it's just not going to do.
It's not a means to enlightenment or a replacement for positive, caring human relationships.
Ultimately, it's a TOOL to do stuff... a MEANS to and end. Now that I have the mouse pointer problems sorted out by installing the nVidia driver, and figured how to NOT have to use a password when the desktop has "gone to sleep", Linux Mint 9 Isadora is a pretty reliable tool... only two real annoyances.... the hardrive check always seems to occur when I want something off of the computer QUICKLY.... couldn't it be run on shutdown, like Windows does with its updates?
And Mozilla Firefox has stopped shutting down cleanly... a lot of times part of it is still running, even though it LOOKS like it's disappeared, and it slows down shutdown. But really, I can live with those.

Anyway, it occurred to me that this release cycle frequency thing isn't good for noobs. When I heard how frequently Ubuntu (and therefore Mint) versions came out, my first reaction was "This is NUTS!!!". And I still think it's nuts!!! Once a year would be PLENTY, maybe even too much.
When I read about the LTS (Long Term Support for any noobs reading this) versions, I went with Mint 5 Elyssa, had a basically good experience with it (since it didn't have the mouse pointer problems) and for the most part I've enjoyed Isadora. I'm glad the Gnome 3/Unity problems hit the fan when they did, so hopefully the worst issues will have been resolved by the next LTS. And even then, I think I'll wait for Isadora's end-of-life date to switch to the LTS, so it'll be nice and stable by the time I hop on. Maybe that's selfish. But I got so tired of various Windows headaches, and I basically just want my computer to WORK.

So, while in a way I understand all you Mint devotees' enthusiasm about the latest version (I have been tempted to get the new versions sometimes, but when I think that their end-of-life is usually BEFORE Isadora's, I go "NO WAY!"), IMO, you SHOULD not give it to the noobs and Windows refugees. Give them the LTS.... in fact, I think there should be a special section of the forum dedicated to the LTS versions.
And I think that the LTS versions really ought to be "marketed" more, if you will.... they need to get more attention devoted to them in general.
Because in many ways they are the most stable, most "noob" friendly thing in the Linux Mint camp.
Perhaps they could get a little more TLC in terms of desktop themes and backgrounds. I've downloaded a few themes and backgrounds, but it seems clumsy and sometimes they don't work well.

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:51 am
by PhoenixKsE
I have tried to use linux twice now, both times lasted about a week, once using Ubuntu, and this most recent time using Mint. Both times I've felt completely underwater, unable to swim in the sea of unfamiliarity that is the linux community. The problems I have with linux are basic, and two-fold.

One, linux users all have their own lingo, their own way of describing what to do, and from the experiences I've had, they don't enjoy explaining things to newbies. But if no one ever explains what the documentation is actually saying, then no one coming from Windows will ever understand. I get really frustrated because I try to follow people's advice, getting certain things 'installed' (again, no idea if that's even the right lingo, because you don't seem to 'install' things in linux), but it seems that whatever I do, I end up somehow breaking it, and I have to start over completely. I've had to reinstall linux about 6 times total, because it is really hard to understand, and no one seems to be willing to really help. It seems like you have to already understand how linux works in order to get linux to work.

The second issue I have with linux is the fact that there are so many differences between distros, and there are so many different distros, it's really hard to figure out if the tutorial you are using to get to know linux is actually going to work with whatever linux you have. Hell, I've even tried installing and using the distro that my textbook from my very (VERY) short class on linux in college covered, and that didn't even work. I can usually get past the installation of the OS itself, that usually is not an issue. But somehow, no matter how meticulously I search for documentation, or how carefully I follow the instructions, or how much information I read on whatever it is I'm doing, something always seems to go wrong, and then I'm not able to even get to a terminal anymore, it just breaks. I don't really know how to explain it because I don't understand it.... at all. And nothing I've read has helped.

So if someone here has some kind of miracle article that can truly explain to a newbie who has used Windows all his life (and has honestly gotten pretty good with it -- at least, good enough to think he might have a shot at understanding linux -- haha NOPE!) how to learn linux, how to use linux, how to install things on linux, or at the very least, why linux breaks so easily and how to make sure you don't break it by doing things that you have to do anyway (such as installing drivers so your hardware works like it's supposed to), then I might give it another shot. But as of right now, despite all the experience with Windows based computers, and all my experience with hardware and custom-building computers, linux seems to be on some other, unattainable intellectual level that I can't seem to understand no matter what I do, and therefore is too scary for me to continue with.

Any thoughts?

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:30 pm
by eiver
Well, since this is your first post on this forum, I guess that you didn't try asking for help on the Mint forums. I have found, that people on this forum are extremely helpful and friendly - you will never be bashed for asking even the most basic question. I hope you will enjoy our little lingo here. Regarding your questions: There is no single magical article, that solves all Linux problems, just like there isn't one for Windows. Most problems with Linux come from hardware support. If the distribution you have chosen supports your hardware, then Linux is even easier than Windows. Everything works out-of-the-box without installing any drivers. If it doesn't support your hardware, then you have to go down the rabbit hole (searching for solutions, trying instructions or tutorials, compiling source code, etc.). Remember - It took you your whole life to learn Windows, so don't give up on Linux after few attempts :D. Write about a particular issue you currently have and someone will definitely help (state that you are new to Linux, to get a response on the level you require). Good luck.

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:24 pm
by PhoenixKsE
I was more referring to the last time I tried, with Ubuntu. I couldn't really find any answers. That was a while ago.

I have actually gotten mint installed and running well with the nvidia-current driver from the 'additional drivers' gui since my last post, and that has given me a bit more courage. I must have been trying to go too far into it; the research I was doing was talking about rooting around in the terminal and disabling and blacklisting things, but all I had to do was run the gui. I feel a little embarrassed actually. :)

Anyway, what I have now is a dual-boot with Windows and a bootable USB drive with mint on it in case I break it again.

Loving the cube animation and the customizability (yep, just made a new word) of linux, and I'm sure soon enough, I will be delving deeper into it. Thank you for the kind words even after my linux-bashing rant in the previous post. :)


Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:07 pm
by tedtrash
I think that Linux Mint is packaged really well, and descriptions on the website do give you plenty of options for your desktop environment and choices for usability and performance.

There have been several good posts here about the need to educate new users about using the software centre. The importance of the synaptic package manager as a tool to fix packages when trouble arises could be emphasized more, perhaps on the Linux Mint Welcome screen.

I migrated from Windows because there were persistent time headaches. There are some in Linux, but generally, once you are up and running the headaches end. Different machines respond better to different distros, and Distro Watch and a little research to see who has successfully installed a linux distro on the same machine goes a long way to avoiding headaches after install.

I also Migrated from Ubuntu after 11.04 because I found the Unity interface to be unusable. Active searching in the panel was beautiful, but it was a resource hog and the user interface was both non-intuitive and rigidly not customizable. Too few options is just as disastrous as too many.

Recently, I struggled with a dual boot, Linux/Windows 7 netbook. Worked fine with an earlier Ubuntu but Windows updates now mess up the Grub loader, adding additional options and claiming that it needs to "fix" startup. Fresh install of Linux Mint 9 XFCE fixed the Grub, but new problems arose. Eventually, Windows decided it was no longer genuine, and the reinstall partition was corrupted. I had a stack of recovery CD's that Windows had demanded I create, but after several hours of automatic fixes that didn't work, I decided Microsoft, once again, was not worth my time. After many years, I have decided that it is better to generate technical equity by learning how to do something than to rely on an expert to make things barely usable.

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:07 am
by gosa

Because you spend a considerable amount of time setting up your computer, and suddenly - after an update - that little applet, that little application that you've learned to live with doesn't work anymore, and you're not proficient enough to try and see if rebuilding it from source might help.

So you're faced with either rethinking and changing your ways or just accept that you're getting older and life just ain't what it used to be.

Sorry for the rant, but yes - I feel a bit tired this morning, after trying to get Jupiter applet to run on the latest spin of LMDE XFCE, and then discovering that plugging in my external monitor to my netbook for the first time since installing does weird things to my desktop.

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:35 pm
by Kevin108
Compiling from source is much easier than it initially appears. Now, sometimes you can spend hours chasing your tail to get to where certain libraries are codependent and you can't compile one without the other BUT that catch 22 scenario has only happened to me once so far.

Typically you download an archive, like something.tar.gz which you will need to decompress (extract the files from) then open terminal and cd your way to where your files are. After that, typically all you need to do is:

./configure - This will tell you if everything will compile or not. If not, it will tell you what you're missing.
make - This compiles all your source files, links to common libraries, etc.
sudo make install - This installs the program and new libraries into the appropriate directories.

Start with something simple to build your confidence. was where I started. it's an excellent walk-through. You copy and paste most of the commands as needed. (In Terminal, paste is Shift + Insert.)

Good luck!