Why do new people give up on Linux?

Chat about Linux in general
frank392
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 362
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:29 pm

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby frank392 » Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:56 pm

@xfrank
The name of this conversation is " why do NEW people give up on linux"
and I'm glad you are one of the lucky one that everything is working in your computer. in my case on one of my computer the microsd is not working, the other one is the touchpad. aI have Amazon prime video that does NOT work under Linux.a friend has problems with his printer.

so if you are new to linux and you really need to work with your computer and do not have the time or the wish to be tinkering with your computer you will run away from linux as fast as you can .
the other thing is software ... in my case I'm A photographer, i like Gimp but is not even close to Photoshop I wish it was i dislike Adobes way of doing business, the other thing is that the software to calibrate your monitor under linux is very bad. and there is no option to calibrate your printer. and please do not tell me that linux is more secure I have been using windows for over 10 years NEVER had a problem with Virus

FirebirdTN
Level 2
Level 2
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:15 pm

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby FirebirdTN » Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:39 pm

As a new Mint user, an a VERY novice Linux user, I can actually see both sides of the arguement.

I haven't read all 43 pages of this thread, but just looking back at some of the recent comments, hardware compatibility seems to be a key factor here. Those who have hardware that play nice will generally have a good experience-those that don't, especially newcomers, will find it a nightmare.

In all honesty, there are some things that I think Windows "does better". And I have a couple minor annoyances that I never experienced with Windows. But the truth is, I'm sticking with Linux. I really don't like the direciton Microsoft is headed (or Unbuntu for that matter), as I need a traditional desktop interface for my power computing needs. Although I have some quirks, so far I really am liking Mint.

I just finished an email telling a co-worker my honest opinion of Linux (Mint specifically, but just said "Linux" as not to cause confusion). And here it is, whether you agree or not, its just my opinion:

Linux (Mint) IS ready for prime time to *USE* from a novice PC user's perspective.
Linux (Mint) is NOT ready for prime time to *INSTALL/SETUP* from a novice PC user's perspective.
Linux (Mint) is ready for prime time for *INSTALL/SETUP/USE* from a Power PC user's perspective, albeit with some growing pains.

What I mean by that, is lets face it-Installation is VERY easy. Answer a couple simple questions, click forward a few times, and done. HOWEVER, I tried to set up my printer by clicking "printers" and was greeted with an error. After research, its a bug, and I had to drop to the terminal and type system-config-printer. Okay, so that was really really easy, BUT...from a complete novice standpoint, probably not. Yes, you can easily search for solutions to problems like this, but the point is the vast majority of the time, Windows user's are accustomed to doing so.

Now in defending Linux, I'll bet the novice user would have an equally hard time installing Windows "from scratch", with all the drivers, configuration, settings, etc. In my mind its no harder to install one over the other-just different. The problem is (again from the novice user's perspective), I would say the bulk of users in that category never had to install Windows, or device drivers, etc. They probably bought their computer, and with the exceptionn of maybe some external peripherals, all the setup is already done for them.

And I think there in lies the real problem. There just aren't many (any?) computers as readily available for sale pre-configured with Linux, tested, and ready to go. So it takes a little more work in getting a system set up. With computers pre-configured with Windows, you just go buy it, turn it on, answer some simple questions, and your all set.

Now from a USE standpoint-I find both equally easy. I use applications, not OSes. Coming from a Windows background, I regularly used Firefox as a browser, and Thunderbird as my email client. I see virtually no difference in either under Mint. Yes, the underlying OS is different, but the actual day to day USE remains the same.

So thats my take on things. In short, I do understand both sides of the equasion, but I have just made the switch, and although experiencing a little bit of growing pains, I am satisfied, and am not looking back.

-Alan

PKing
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:43 am
Location: Holland

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby PKing » Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:23 pm

FirebirdTN wrote:Linux (Mint) IS ready for prime time to *USE* from a novice PC user's perspective.
Linux (Mint) is NOT ready for prime time to *INSTALL/SETUP* from a novice PC user's perspective.
Linux (Mint) is ready for prime time for *INSTALL/SETUP/USE* from a Power PC user's perspective, albeit with some growing pains.
-Alan


I think there are the main reasons, to have or not have Linux on your computer.
I just installed it myself now, and did a Lubuntu instal on a old laptop, and the average user has no clue.....

It is not the fact that Windows is better (althoug W7 is pretty stable) but the fact that it comes pre-installed with the most computers, and it is a easy system for the avarage user.
In Windows everything wat the average user dont want to know is happening in the background, the user only sees the interface.
The average user dont want to do things he dont understand in a command line.
The average user has no clue how his computer works or how many cores his CPU has, because he dont know wat a CPU is :mrgreen:

As i did work with DOS and for instance PCtools, and worked with a mouse with one button and OS8.xx for the mac, i can say i am not the average user, and i still have questions about this system.
So make a Linux distro with no terminal and only a graphic interface and you are getting closer to the average user i think.
And do not talk about gaming because Linux sucks at that :lol:
CPU: AMD 1055T
MEM: 8gb 1333mhz DDR3
OS: Mint16 64bit
Video: ATI 5770 1gb

FirebirdTN
Level 2
Level 2
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:15 pm

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby FirebirdTN » Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:06 pm

PKing wrote:...So make a Linux distro with no terminal and only a graphic interface and you are getting closer to the average user i think.


To be honst, that bit that I quoted is my BIGGEST fear. Right now things kind of seem to be headed in the direction of removing access to the "guts" of a system to make it "user proof".

For now, I need the "dumbed down" point and click interface just because its what I am used to. HOWEVER, I do not want to see the operating system evolve to a point where you can't dig into the hardware or tweak the software, etc. Although the terminal makes me nervous, I do NOT want to see it go away...EVER. But it would be nice for most of the terminal commands used to configure a system or interface be available with a GUI equivalent as well. Trying to think of an example, but the only one that comes to mind is my recent expeience with CentOS6. You can do ALOT with the gui, but I could not find ANY gui application for the simple task of configuring a static IP address. Back to the terminal and system-config-network. Or my recent experience with Mint-I tried to install playonlinux, but it hung every time. So back to the terminal sudo apt-get install and voila, it installed no problem. The reason it was getting hung up in the gui I think is because it was waiting for user input, but a dialog box never popped up for the user to provide input to!

I don't have much experience with them, but I kind of relate it to a mac...Why are they so good? It seems to be because they "just work". And why do they "just work"? Because you are so far removed from the hardware and software that you really can't dig into "what makes it tick" like you can with Linux.

I have absolutely NO knowledge of coding. But I take comfort in the fact that if I can learn, I can take most any application in linux and look at the source code and modify it if I want to.

I guess in short, yes I would like to see Linux evolve so that its easy, reliable, and simple to setup and use-BUT I don't want my freedom taken away to modify the system or code if I want to.

I am not technically knowledgable enough to know whether those two are mutually exclusive or not, but I seem to think we can get there and have the best of both worlds.

-Alan

PKing
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:43 am
Location: Holland

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby PKing » Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:16 pm

A mac is not that good if you look at the value you get for the money, they only have a great marketing machine :mrgreen:
CPU: AMD 1055T
MEM: 8gb 1333mhz DDR3
OS: Mint16 64bit
Video: ATI 5770 1gb

User avatar
Previous1
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 363
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:48 am
Contact:

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby Previous1 » Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:37 pm

PKing wrote:A mac is not that good if you look at the value you get for the money, they only have a great marketing machine :mrgreen:


In terms of hardware, they're terrible value for money. Things like SSDs are twice as expensive as in the PC world.

But time is money too - if you don't have to spend time solving problems you get great value. If I got payed for solving Linux problems I'd have 5 macs by now. :P

Of course if you do have a problem with your Mac, especially hardware related, your life is in the hands of the nearest Apple Store. No real difference for non-technical users, but hard to swallow for computer enthusiasts.
Image
Tutorials | cynicaltux
Arch Linux i3wm, 64bit

User avatar
patrice4419
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:12 am

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby patrice4419 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:40 am

What a brilliant line of posting - loved the sudo masturbation bit! Frankly, I am a born-again Mint user and rightly so. Now that XP has virtually bit the dust. The truth is that all OS have drawbacks and also good points, some very good. Mint 16 Mate I now use is by far the 'nicest and easiest' to use. When going over to Linux of any type, you'd better get familiar with a more intrusive and hands-on approach. Talk about GUI by all means but remember that Linux is very terminal based and operates better and faster in that manner.
There is nothing wrong in going through the various forums (I found Ubuntu forums very helpful as well!) when encountering some arcane problem like 'Why doesn't Canon supply Linux drivers?' Trawl around, someone or other will have done one. Or don't buy Canon machines. The problem is, as has already been said, that the user bases of Linux and Windows are so divergent in favour and in numbers that companies like Canon don't bother much with Linux. I found this to be true with Samsung as well but some research later and a bit of fiddling my colour laser runs like a train. Nevertheless, I also found it desirable to keep Windows 7 since a lot of stuff from that will not run with Linux. OK, no problem - Virtual Box in Linux allows a lovely set-up of Windows 7 and possibly easy transfer of some files. Job done. Anyone who wants a system that looks like Windows and smells like Windows, well then buy Windows. Anyone who wants more security,a wider availability of specialist programs (for instance I read on the forums about a Dreamweaver compatible prog - Blue Griffon installed it in 3 seconds and bingo a new web-design prog kit for free) will get to Linux. Happy to say you cannot do something like that in Windows without shelling out some hard-earned moolah.
Finally, it is surely true that a) You cannot please everyone and b) No OS has all the answers and never will have.
Did I mention I am a happy Mint user?
(Penguin PocketWee running Mint 17.1 Cinnamon, Intel Dual Core i5-4250U 1.3Ghz (2.6 Turbo), 8Gb DDR3, mSATA SSD 250Gb, wireless dual band.
The router (D-Link DS3580L) with USB slot.

pdc_2
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1889
Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 1:21 am

Canon drivers

Postby pdc_2 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:12 pm

to be honest Patrice, if you check on Canon printers that are being sold today, you are likely to find they have:

Debian packages; RPM packages and source code;

in both 32bit and 64bit packages;

do check out what printers are in your shops: such devices as the MG2100 series; and the MG3100 series: (we have the latter): and check such sites as this for drivers:

http://software.canon-europe.com/

http://support-asia.canon-asia.com/?personal

eg for the latter, entering MG2100 you get this http://support-asia.canon-asia.com/P/se ... g_os=Linux

have a read

ScanGearMP runs the scanner; printer drivers for the printer

jmar
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:46 pm

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby jmar » Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:48 pm

I've puttered with various dual boot XP & Linux distros for a few years now, and linux on my older laptops. kind of an advanced newbie more or less..

Now that XP is dust am finding a few issues with my Linux desktop installs. my passwords are often # so numlock on is preferred.

1 -Most don't keep the numlock on - even when set on in BIOS -( I am still searching for a fix the ones I've read so far did not work)
PCLOS does keep numlock on tho but browser font display is rough/grainy. so that overrules the numlock issue and why I tried Mint, ZorinOS, Xubuntu,
Mepis-(poor browser fonts also & wifi connect issues on my desktop))

2- Can't get emailed URLs to open in a browser by clicking it in the message.. tried some of the fixes mentioned but still no go..tried some add ons but not reliable.
now I get a pop up asking what application to use but it sends me to flies and I not sure what to click to choose firefox??. or any on my browsers...

3- I liked with XP how even if logged out of your profile with Thunderbird open, on the chooser screen it would display that you have new messages waiting..
I don't know if that is possible at all with a linux distro??

I do get odd disappearing parts of my postings on forums while typing, that is a bit bothersome too...I have chronic RSI so all the extra hand scrolling, mousing & typing adds to my issues. and frustration.. LOL

User avatar
Previous1
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 363
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:48 am
Contact:

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby Previous1 » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:12 pm

Numlock;
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Ac ... otup#X.org
Hit-or-miss due to various bugs.

Browser fonts;
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Fo ... g_examples
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Ch ... _rendering

URLs;
You could write a case-study on this one. :roll: Depends on the applications as well as the desktop environment.

Don't know on the "new messages waiting", I can't advise on wifi either.

The posting problems are unlikely to be Linux-related, more to the browser or the site itself. Does it happen elsewhere?
Image
Tutorials | cynicaltux
Arch Linux i3wm, 64bit

jmar
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:46 pm

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby jmar » Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:30 pm

I usually use Firefox and it did odd disappearing text on a few forums and on FB..

I'm trying Opera now to see if it also does it. so far so good..but only posted here so far..

Then I'll try Qupzilla next..

The font coding stuff is beyond my skill set LOL

Fuzzy Penquin
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby Fuzzy Penquin » Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:37 pm

jmar wrote:I've puttered with various dual boot XP & Linux distros for a few years now, and linux on my older laptops. kind of an advanced newbie more or less..
.......
I do get odd disappearing parts of my postings on forums while typing, that is a bit bothersome too...I have chronic RSI so all the extra hand scrolling, mousing & typing adds to my issues. and frustration.. LOL
.....


Of the things you mentioned, I have had experience with this one. Unfortunately, I don't have a fix, but maybe what I'm about to say might give you/us/somebody an idea of the cause? Perhaps you have similar hardware to mine....?

Both my fiance and I have new home-built computers, mine was built in Jan '13 and his Feb '14. All with brand new current-gen parts. Both use MSI MoBo's (mine is a regular general-purpose board Z77A-G45 Thunderbolt, his is a gaming-specific board based upon mine Z87-G45 Gaming), I have 16GB RAM and he has 4GB and both are running at 1600MHz, I have a 3rd gen Intel Core i7 3770k and his is the 4th gen version of the same chip, (and here's the part I suspect...) we both have Nvidia GTX700-series video cards (mine: MSI GTX770, his: EVGA GTX760, both with 4GB built-in RAM). We have both experienced the dissapearing lines of text when typing emails (we use web-based email, not local like Thunderbird) and when posting in forums. I also have a secondary hard drive with Win7, and Windows also does this. So it doesn't seem to be specific to Linux or Mint, for us. Thus, my uneducated guess is that it's an issue with our graphics cards not playing nice with something. Perhaps the Nvidia drivers for the GTX700-series cards have some kind of bug that is not patched/fixed? I wonder if anyone with a higher or lower series card has experienced this also? In any case, I've found it only mildly annoying to me, and it's easily "fixed" (read: temporary workaround) by highlighting over the area where your text dissapeared, which causes it to display correctly again. I have no idea why. That doesn't fix the problem, but it will bring back what you just typed so that you can re-read your paragraph in it's complete entirety before hitting "Send". Works for both my Mint and Win7 OS's.

I hope this helps somehow. :?:

Edit: I don't believe I have noticed my laptops doing this (I'd have to go check to be sure). They are both ancient little guys from 9 and 12 years ago, and of course use integrated graphics built into their CPU or MoBo (not sure how it was implimented in laptops back then). They both came pre-loaded with Windows (2000 for the oldest, XP for the "newest") and now use SolydX on the "newest" and MacPup on the oldest. So this dissapearing text issue could be something with current desktop Nvidia video cards (some model series, all series?).


[Post edited twice to add more details because I was rushing out the door when I first posted. :shock: ]
Last edited by Fuzzy Penquin on Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Intel i7-3770k 3.5GHz, 16GB 1600MHz RAM, 2x 1TB HDD, MSI Z77A-G45 Thunderbolt motherboard, (MSI) Nvidia GeForce GTX770, Mint 17 64-bit w/Cinnamon.

I am a n00b! Please assume zero knowledge on my part. Sorry for any dumb questions, I am still learning.

exploder
Level 14
Level 14
Posts: 5492
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:50 am
Location: HartfordCity, Indiana USA
Contact:

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby exploder » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:19 pm

Fuzzy Penquin, I really like the detailed information you gave for the problem and the work around for the dissapearing text issue! I do not have this problem on any of my computers but I sure had to comment about how well you wrote about it. Wish more people had your abilities! Seriously! :)

Fuzzy Penquin
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby Fuzzy Penquin » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:05 pm

exploder wrote:Fuzzy Penquin, I really like the detailed information you gave for the problem and the work around for the dissapearing text issue! I do not have this problem on any of my computers but I sure had to comment about how well you wrote about it. Wish more people had your abilities! Seriously! :)


LOL, thanks. :) I always try to give as much info as possible when dealing with technical things, even if some of the details are probably not relevant. Sometimes it annoys people when I do that... :lol: And now that I'm back from the errand I had to run, I gotta edit my post to add a couple more (probably irrelevant) details I forgot in my rush to answer before I had to leave. Yeah....believe it or not, that was a rushed post! :lol: :mrgreen:

I love technical details. I'm the kind of person who'd read a technical manual for pleasure, instead of because they had to. LOL. And I could talk computers alllllll day. :mrgreen:
Intel i7-3770k 3.5GHz, 16GB 1600MHz RAM, 2x 1TB HDD, MSI Z77A-G45 Thunderbolt motherboard, (MSI) Nvidia GeForce GTX770, Mint 17 64-bit w/Cinnamon.

I am a n00b! Please assume zero knowledge on my part. Sorry for any dumb questions, I am still learning.

User avatar
vrkalak
Level 12
Level 12
Posts: 4416
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:53 pm
Location: Santa Fe, NM, USA

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby vrkalak » Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:21 am

The "average" computer user, then switching to Linux for Windows, thinks this >

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Everything you thought, you knew about Computers is (((((([{WRONG}]))))))
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Image
:: Debian-Sid (Xfce/Fluxbox) :: LinuxMint-18 (LTS) LXDE w/Openbox ::
Registered Linux User: #497031 :: My DeviantART Page

User avatar
PA1FOX
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:07 am
Location: Twente - NL

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby PA1FOX » Thu May 01, 2014 7:42 am

vrkalak wrote:The "average" computer user, then switching to Linux for Windows, thinks this >

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Everything you thought, you knew about Computers is (((((([{WRONG}]))))))
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


I disagree. With the same approach you have used to learn Windows, OSX, IOS, Android or any other operating system, you can learn to see logic structure in Linux. It still uses CPU, RAM, disk, ethernet etc.

English people learning French should not think that anything they knew about a language is wrong. It's just different.

User avatar
InkKnife
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 684
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:24 pm

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby InkKnife » Thu May 01, 2014 5:24 pm

vrkalak wrote:The "average" computer user, then switching to Linux for Windows, thinks this >

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Everything you thought, you knew about Computers is (((((([{WRONG}]))))))
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I switched my wife to Mint/Cinnamon after she had been using XP for over 10 years and she had no problem at all dealing with the differences and she is very much not a tech oriented person.
My good old PC:
Core2quad@2.33, 8GB Ram, Radeon HD 6850. Mint 18.2 Cinnamon edition. Now with an SSD!! Zoooom!

Barbados99
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:16 pm
Location: Central Illinois

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby Barbados99 » Mon May 26, 2014 10:05 am

Viking-bg wrote:Hi,

here is my reason for giving up on Linux (my apologies for the cross post, but if I knew about this thread, I would have posted here first).

A month ago I bought a new computer. I thought that this would at last be the time when I could wave Windows goodbye, as I have looked at Linux for a number of years already (at least since Mint 8 ). I downloaded a number of distro's, but came back to Mint Cinnamon as my distro of choice.

Loading the live USB was a breeze. The distro picked up my mobile Internet (3g) in a flash. I installed, and everything was wonderful for a few days.

Then it started. After booting, Mint intermittently saw my Huawei E367 mobile modem. I estimate for every ten bootups the modem would be detected twice. So this was really strange. Then it sees the modem, and then it doesn't. Now it stopped seeing the modem completely.

Okay, time to hit the forum for a solution (and back to my old Windows XP box because it detects the modem EVERY TIME). There I read to apt get for a certain package (usb-modeswitch). Are you serious? I cannot connect to the Internet in the first place from within Mint. That is exactly my problem! How can I fetch a package on the Internet to fix a non-working Internet connection? So, long story short, modem is not working.

Next I connected the printers. HP - no problem. Canon - no printing. Hitting the forum again, I read that Canon is “poorly supported”. So, if you have certain Canon printers, then it is tough luck. So, printer not working...

Next it was time for the scanner. Canon - oops. “poorly supported”. The most frustrating thing is that my Mint's Simplescan's preferences page actually identifies the scanner correctly, but does not scan a page!

So, after four weeks of intensely working with Linux, I am at wits end. At first everything worked lovely, but then it turned sour. (I have limited my problems with Mint to the basics to keep the post short, and will not discuss issues like logging in multiple users without passwords and installation of packages like Latex, etc.)

I do not know what to do next. I HATE Windows 7, REFUSE to install Windows 8 (I have read numerous reviews), and my beautiful Linux Mint 16 desktop works like a charm, except I cannot print, scan or use the Internet (amongst other issues)! The three most basic functions a computer is used for, Linux Mint has hassles with!

I know I am not the only one. This Linux Mint forum is full of stories like mine. What saddens me the most is that I believe that Linux could be the most popular OS in the world if the basics could be sorted out. I do NOT need shiny new eye candy distro releases every six months. I do NOT need a plethora of distro's and desktops to choose from. All I need is a rock solid OS where I can be productive without reading forums to sort out basic issues like printing, scanning, and connecting to the Internet. So, sadly I sit here typing away in front of my Windows XP box knowing that support will end within a few weeks. I REALLY want Linux to work for me, but this masochistic experience has gone on for long enough. To vent my EXTREME frustration I have decided to write this post. The Linux slogan of “putting the fun back into computing” was just the opposite for me. This is NOT fun, and this and other Linux forums can confirm this to be the case for most newbies.

Ranting complete - thanks for reading.


My experience is similar to yours. I desperately WANT to like Linux. I've tried off-and-on for almost 20 years to use it as my computer OS. But I need an OS that doesn't take a lot of care and feeding. I don't want to be a slave to my OS. Windows works. I know that's blasphemy here. But with Windows, I just install it and forget it. If I want a program I download it, fire it up - and I don't have to even THINK about my OS. Stuff just works. I don't want to be a slave to my OS. I don't enjoy having to fix programs that break. With Windows, it just hums away in the background and I can forget it. Man, in Linux, I never have that freedom. Stuff breaks, I'm living in a Google or Forum world trying to read how to fix the latest thing that doesn't work. I hate that. Right now I'm in this forum trying to figure out how to get a program running in Mint. I had it running (kind of) but it needs some gyrations to get it right. I've used this program in Windows and it works flawlessly once you download it and install it. In Linux it's like a kick in the groin to get it working (and the basic spell checker still doesn't work once you DO get it running). Oh, the humanity of it all.

Some times I step back and look over the incredible array of woes on the Linux forums like this one and laugh in a sick way. People trying to get basic stuff to work and in many cases it's about as pleasant as going to the dentist for a root canal. I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but I do laugh out loud sometimes when I just step back and have a "reality check" moment. We're desperately trying to get basic programs to work on Linux so we can embrace the OS, but I fear we're pretty much in denial. Linux doesn't work as well as Windows. Period.

I end up going back to Windows every time, hoping I can come back some day when Linux works as simply as Windows, and my computer can simply be a tool to get jobs done, and not a machine that needs so much care and feeding and attention. Anyway, I'm seeing that Mint is much better than some of the other Linux experiences I've had with Linux over the past 20 years or so. So THAT is encouraging. I'm not giving up on Linux. So here I am (again) trying to get a Linux distro to work for my needs. Maybe I'm just a sucker for not giving up though :-)

Brother, I feel your pain :-)

User avatar
Nilla Wafer
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:11 pm

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby Nilla Wafer » Mon May 26, 2014 12:22 pm

Barbados99 wrote:
I need an OS that doesn't take a lot of care and feeding. I don't want to be a slave to my OS. Windows works. I know that's blasphemy here. But with Windows, I just install it and forget it.


You don't have to install your printer separately? Windows has all the drivers built in (sound, graphics, etc)? I have a Windows install disk, but I also have to have all the other disks to install separately - drivers, peripherals, stuff like that). It takes hours. Then I have to buy and install antivirus, registry cleaner, office software. All separately installed.

Install and forget? I never could, not with Windows. But with Linux Mint, there were no separate drivers to install (my printer works, sound, graphics, all of it). I already have a full office suite, no need for antivirus, defragmenter, "optimizers," registry cleaners, nothing. It took me 15 minutes - done.

If I want a program I download it, fire it up - and I don't have to even THINK about my OS. Stuff just works. I don't want to be a slave to my OS.


Same here. But I don't do it by browsing to some web site, hoping I can trust it, then downloading some .exe file, scanning it with antivirus software to give me some sense of safety, and then having it add toolbars and icons and God only knows what else when I execute it. Instead I just open my already-there package manager and download any number of 38,000-plus software titles - for free - from trustworthy repositories. They install automatically and bingo. Done in seconds, not minutes or hours. I'm like you: I don't want to be a slave to the OS, I just want to run my applications. So that's what I do.

I don't enjoy having to fix programs that break. With Windows, it just hums away in the background and I can forget it. Man, in Linux, I never have that freedom. Stuff breaks, I'm living in a Google or Forum world trying to read how to fix the latest thing that doesn't work. I hate that. Right now I'm in this forum trying to figure out how to get a program running in Mint. I had it running (kind of) but it needs some gyrations to get it right. I've used this program in Windows and it works flawlessly once you download it and install it.


Windows software doesn't run in Linux. But there are "Linux equivalents" to most common Windows programs. We use Firefox (or Qupzilla, Midori, Opera, Seamonkey, Chromium, and more) in place of Internet Explorer. Thunderbird (or Claws Mail, Evolution, and others) in place of Outlook. LibreOffice instead of Microsoft Office. Evince instead of Adobe Reader. VLC insttead of Windows Media Player. All of these titles are in Mint's repositories, for free. There is even WINE and Play-on-Linux which allows me to use some Windows software on my Mint OS!

Some times I step back and look over the incredible array of woes on the Linux forums like this one and laugh in a sick way. People trying to get basic stuff to work and in many cases it's about as pleasant as going to the dentist for a root canal. I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but I do laugh out loud sometimes when I just step back and have a "reality check" moment. We're desperately trying to get basic programs to work on Linux so we can embrace the OS, but I fear we're pretty much in denial. Linux doesn't work as well as Windows.


You can return Linux Mint for a full refund on the purchase price if you like. I'm not trying to be snarky here, but just think about it. What did you pay for Windows? What do you pay for all the bloatware Windows requires (antivirus, optimizers, defragmentors, registry cleaners, anti-spyware, drivers, peripherals) to make it run and keep it maintained?

There is a learning curve with Linux. It isn't just a free version of Windows that works the same way. You had to learn Windows, maybe a long time ago. The disadvantage that a Windows user has when trying to switch to Linux is the assumption that both OSes work the same way - just point and click as before. We don't get our software from web sites, but from the repositories. We can't find a cool game or educational stuff at Wal-Mart and install it to a computer running Mint. We have .deb instead of .exe. We don't run as root ("Administrator") all the time like you do in Windows. That is one of the big reasons that Linux is so highly virus-resistant! We don't defrag our hard drives regulary - Linux has no registry to clean! It isn't harder, it's just unfamiliar at first.

I came to Linux from Windows too. No one in my family knew anything about Linux. I was told I couldn't do it because Linux is "only for experts." But after a bit of reading and journaling, I had my first Linux up and running on about 30 minutes. I was 11 years old. Three years later my whole family is using Linux and would never go back. My parents had a harder time learning it than I did because they brought alot of assumptions with them from Windows that just don't apply to Linux. Like downloading programs from the web and getting mad when the "run" command doesn't do anything. It just isn't done that way in Linux. But it took several tries before that lesson sunk in, and we all laugh about it now. Goodness, if we ever had to go back to Windows for any reason, we'd probably be as frustrated by our Linux assumptions as you are by your own assumptions learned from using Windows!

But for me, I would never wish to go back to Windows. But if you are unwilling to learn a little about how this OS works, then stick with what is familiar to you. Just keep some savings in the bank to cover all those anyi-virus subscriptions and license fees and stuff.

nilla

Barbados99
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:16 pm
Location: Central Illinois

Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby Barbados99 » Mon May 26, 2014 1:57 pm

Nilla Wafer wrote:
Barbados99 wrote:
But for me, I would never wish to go back to Windows. But if you are unwilling to learn a little about how this OS works, then stick with what is familiar to you. Just keep some savings in the bank to cover all those anyi-virus subscriptions and license fees and stuff.

nilla


I don't want to go back either, and that's why I'm hoping this experience with Mint is a good one. I'm willing to learn new things, and like I said in the original post, I've worked with Linux for almost 20 years (off and on) now. I've built web and mail servers years ago on Linux systems (I built the computers from scratch too). I'm hoping the LTS aspect of Mint will be a good match for my needs. I'm at an age now where I don't enjoy tinkering with my computer. I just want "simple" now. Download a program and install it with a click and then use it. The searching through forums and Google searches to install (or fix) stuff, has long since lost its appeal to me. I just want stuff to work. Simple is good. I'm hoping that Mint will be that for me.


Return to “Chat about Linux”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests