Why do new people give up on Linux?

Chat about Linux in general
pht900
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by pht900 »

Looking several years back, when I started with Linux, I believe that it's due to these factors:

1. Lack of easily available information, in a short form, about what Linux to choose. Linux is not a single OS, as Windows is (mmm... mostly, I'm talking about desktop and laptops, not tablets or mobile), for many it is not clear what desktop environment or window manager is, what are pros and cons of using each of them. Asking usually results in answers of "try and see what will work for you" kind. Not actually helping, trying too much without positive result leads to being fed up and going back to Windows.

2. Many Linux flavors are advertised ready to work, in reality sometimes it is even hard to find a Software manager, Update and screen saver (not a problem with Mint). Software is expected to work right after installation and most functions be available by using user interface. More frequently than not, this doesn't happen.

3. Too many problems for a newbie, too little helpful information available in FAQ or manual, that should be a main source for newbies to refer to.

4. There are not many active forums where newbie will get help within few days of asking, get useful information and not a lecturing about necessity of learning "(insert here name of distribution) Linux ways". Let's face it, some of us have to get a job done, not to get time consuming not even a hobby... There is a time limit to make a decision if all this worth it, if conversion to Linux fails in short time, back to Windows again.

5. Hardware incompatibility, even if in theory it should work. Again, no time to ask and wait for answers that may never come, so back to Windows again. I myself did that recently, installed Windows on secondary hard drive.

On the bright side, Linux Mint is the best for unprepared user to start with Linux, ready to use.
frodopogo
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by frodopogo »

I'm seeing there's kind of a "luck of the draw" thing going on with hardware. Some hardware works great with Linux in general or Mint in particular, and if you happen to have it, you've got it made. If you just happen to have a bunch of incompatible hardware.... you're out of luck. If you tried Mint to avoid buying a new computer, and Mint forces you to buy a new printer and scanner, what have you gained? If you still need to spend several hundred dollars, you are probably going to go with the path of least resistance and buy the new computer.
There is also a similar trade off of annoyances..... with Windows, if you don't get annoyed by viruses, the antivirus programs will SURELY annoy you. With Linux the annoyance is either buggy programs or needing to drop to Terminal to fix something. Again, if you can be content with popular choices like standard business apps, then you will do well. If you need something more obscure.... you're in trouble.

The problem is that big corporations can pay for more people to do hardware testing.
One reason I think I've done well with Linux is that my hunch tends to be when buying peripherals is that it's safer to buy something that's a business standard, or at least the most popular name brand peripheral. Then the chances go up that a relatively small project like Linux Mint will have the hardware among the ones used to test the latest version.

This being the case, I wonder if people aren't shopping for distros the wrong way. Maybe there ought to be a database of all the hardware that's been found to run flawlessly with a distro, and people could just list the hardware they have, and have some on-line program match them with a distro that's been tested and proved to run well on all or almost all of their hardware.

Then there is the apps issue. Dating myself a bit, Arlo Guthrie had a song WAY back that went "You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant".
Well, software wise, you CAN get just about anything you want software wise in the Window's compatible "restaurant" of software choices. Linux has a much narrower set of competent choices. Unfortunately, there is a lot of software in the repositories that ISN'T competent. Some works, but has a limited feature set. Other stuff may have the features, but crashes on you WAY too much.
Small projects filled with volunteers just have a limit on how much time they are willing or are even able to spend swatting bugs.
There is a bit of a saving grace in that corporations do have an interest, if only for a season, in supporting business programs being written for Linux. They do sometimes get abandoned, but then can be forked or taken over. And smaller projects that get abandoned can be taken over by someone else too.

Anyway, I think that realistically, Linux serves as kind of a supplement and backup to Windows and perhaps the Mac.
A new Windows computer works tolerably well for about 5 years- and less if it acquires some really nasty malware, and then, if you want to postpone that computer's voyage to the landfill, Linux is the only option for most people. Linux computers could be seen as a safer way to surf the Internet, and so protect your Windows computer for more specialized tasks. It's also a way to give people without a lot of disposable cash access to the internet. Basically, the best way to keep people from giving up on Linux is to allow them to continue to use Windows, but encourage them to use Linux in a supplemental role on a second computer, or a dual boot system, or even just USB sticks and DVDs. Then, if their Windows PC dies, and they can't afford a replacement right away, they already have the Linux computer in place as a backup, and already know how to use it.

Another thing I'm starting to see that's kind of counterintuitive, but may make more sense to really get the best out of Linux:
I used to see different desktops as confusing and an annoyance. But since I started with Mint when Gnome 2 was the desktop, MATE just makes so much sense. Now that MATE is available for Ubuntu and I think for Fedora, if I needed some software that they have in their repositories that Mint doesn't have, or if they worked better with some hardware I acquired, I could use the MATE version, and I would be up and running quickly without nearly as much of a learning curve. Or maybe the Cinnamon version, since it seems similar. It's kind of theoretical since I haven't actually tried it, but I'm thinking loyalty to a desktop and flexibility with distros might be a better way to get what I need out of Linux. That being said, it's hard not to be attached to Mint since it was my first Linux distro, and Clement makes a very appealing project leader- he LISTENS to the user base!!!
opptinmer
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by opptinmer »

@chris0101 Most people are more willing to click mouse instead of typing commands themselves. :D P.S. There are far less games on Linux.
mintybits
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by mintybits »

For me the biggest issue with Linux is the quality of the applications. There are two aspects:
1) Actually finding the best application for the job. There is really too much, unqualified choice.
2) Too many apps are of poor quality.

Linux' character reflects the sort of people who develop it. It is very good for IT tasks. It is very reliable for servers and networking and databases and things like that. But when it comes to stuff non-IT people use, it is much less attractive. Open Office is really not good enough. The Gnome project management tool is rubbish. There is scant support for external devices like mobile phones and tablets. I still have awful USB issues from time to time. Wine is simply not adequate to run most Windows applications. Networking is a PITA unless you are an expert. The installer and Grub can be a PITA unless you have some expertise. And limited games support.

Don't get me wrong, I am an advocate of Linux. I have been using it since Ubuntu 9.04 (I still miss the drums). But I am also an IT pro. I know how to use Linux and work around the user-hostile elements. I HAVE to maintain a Windows 7 installation too so that I can get certain non-IT tasks done. I have to have MS Office available. I have to have software for my work which isn't available on Linux. I have to have Windows to run games.

So when some Linux fans tell Windows users to abandon ship and enjoy the relative luxury of Linux, I wince. It is a nice vision but it is not practical.
I think this is why some new people give up on Linux, or at least give it secondary status. Even though Linux is free, the vast majority of computer users cannot afford it!

IMO to get mainstream users to trust Linux will take a culture change within the Linux world and a huge reorganisation of how Linux is developed. Some altogether better leadership. Canonical looked promising a few years ago but seems to have gone lame. The fact that Mint is so popular is testament to Canonical's lack of focus on the mainstream user.

I don't see these changes happening in Linux because the people who get paid to develop it do so for IT infrastructure customers and those who develop it and are unpaid are either focussed on IT apps or are often not capable of producing and maintaining quality code.

Linux works well for me. What it does well it does very well. I would just prefer other Linux users to be more realistic about its limitations and less self-righteous about it. The thing is free - just how much should one expect from it?
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by deleted »

FWIW,
I installed a temperature monitor from CNET/Download.com for a Windows Laptop.
It took about 30 minutes to find one that worked and hours uninstalling the cra*-ware and ask.com's search engine.
I even had to take a trip to mozilla.com to read the doc since the search engine was hijacked (yes a reputable search engine) through redirection and not editable through the usual settings in Firefox.
-Hinto
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by The Pool Man »

see below
Last edited by The Pool Man on Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Pool Man
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by The Pool Man »

Wow. This thread started years ago. Not going to re-read all of it. Just going to chime in with a premise problem in the question itself, from a Macgnostic Mintee Noob.

First of all, the 'new' doesn't belong in the question. Right? It's not that 'old' users are dedicated and loving Linux but 'new' users are flaky and discouraged. For if that were true, the question would be, "What has changed in Linux recently that discourages new users?"

Secondly, the real problem with Linux isn't that newbies 'give up'. The problem is that there aren't enough people trying Linux. Right? What would the Linux community rather have -- a %30 retention rate of %100 of all computer users, or a %95 retention rate of %9 of all computer users?

See what I mean?

So to go down the path of the specific question is self-defeating. The premise infers that most folks won't switch, where really the truth is more like most people have no easy way to try Linux.

From what I see and read is that Linux is actually doing quite well... when users aren't asked if they want to try it OR to install it. That when Linux is already installed within servers, appliances and Android -- people 'like' or 'love' Linux. Typically without knowing it.

So really, people not only aren't giving up on Linux but have utterly embraced it outside of their awareness for the most part. So that real topic at hand (as this thread is already well aware of) goes something like this: Why isn't desktop adoption of PC Linux rampant?

IMHO the core answer to that question is already underlined above. Simply put: a solid Linux install isn't already available on desirable PCs.

SOLID LINUX

This thread does address this. At impressive length. I'm a lifelong Mac user and for me a solid Linux would be defined as terribly easy to install, use, update, upgrade, and almost no crashes of the OS or apps. Bugs would be as rare as they are in OS X. The good news for me is that Linux Mint KDE RC is much further along than most other Nixxies I've tried but it's not quite solid enough yet overall -- for the reasons this thread does break down. I can easily break Mint. You have to try real hard to break OS X.

Long story short -- Linux strikes me as really close to offering a few solid distros. Really close to the casual users. App selection is both fun (because so many are free) but also disappointing (because there are so few apps). As discussed earlier in the thread apps would grow exponentially if the Linux user base exploded.

So how to do that?

DESIRABLE PCS

This, to me, is what's wrong. I know there are some no-name Linux Vendors out there, but getting all excited about System76 is a non-starter. People want to know that what they are using is desirable. Cool. Smart. Better.

Computer users -- PC and Mac alike -- are especially Sheeple in this way. They don't really understand what they're using at even the most basic of levels... they just want to use what the cool and smart people are using.

So in my view the first step of getting users to Linux is offering a Linux variant of Chromebook. Shall we say 'Mintbook' together? What would a Mintbook be? My personal tastes would be your typical Chromebook but with a nicer 'iPad' screen. Not touch, but the sharp LED with glass... instead of the fuzzy soft old school screens I see on most Chromebooks. $350-$500 price range.

Now I know that said books wouldn't sell. Why? See: solid Linux. Also, there's another problem. Sheeple. Very few people like to try something that isn't already established as by the herd as cool, smart, and better. That is, you can't get 10,000 people to try something unless 100,000 cool smart better people already have. Again, it's a non-starter.

It's a branding issue. We are a society of brands. Brands exist to reassure us that the herd has spoken. A recent example is found in cat litter.

CAT LITTER

Yes, cat litter. About 4 years ago I remember Jonny Cat as one of the dominant supermarket litter brands. But now (at least in Safeway) I see Arm and Hammer as the featured brand. It comes in a dozen ludicrous variants, and by ludicrous you should check them out if you don't believe me. Like seven of their own flavors of litter claim to be superior to each other. Huh? This Arm and Hammer litter goes after urine and poop smells seperately but effectively, while the other Arm and Hammer brand reduces all odors. What The Frampton?!? :roll:

The truth is it doesn't matter which Arm and Hammer is better. What matters is that Americans associate Arm and Hammer as an odor killer. So many of us grew up with that little orange box in our parents fridges -- and so -- that brand is embedded within our subconscious as an odor killer -- hence -- Arm and Hammer now dominates the kittie litter aisle and sad little Jonny Cat is barely on the bottom shelf.

Branding branding branding.

So to overstate a simple point -- put a brand associated with technlogical excellence on a 'MintBook' and you're halfway there with the Sheeple. The first brand the comes to mind unfortunately has already done this: Intel. Remember how years ago every PC brand would end their ad by slapping on the INTEL INSIDE brand? This is why they did it. Gateway?!? What the frisbee is Gateway?!? Who gives a shinola about Gateway?!? Oh -- Intel does? Well then... umm... gee... ahh... they can't be all bad, right?

I submit to you Mintheads that the one of the few things keeping Linux from exploding is brand. In fact there's an inference that Linux must kinda suck since named brands are very hesitant and terribly shy about associating themselves with Linux. To me Linux is dead in the water until a major brand steps up.

LEMINTOS

Suppose Lenovo stepped up. In a major way. Presuming MS doesn't have them the by the bullion cubes on this issue, Lenovo could make this happen. Leminto? Why not? All they'd have to do is offer a handful of the PCs they already make with Mint installed, in this scenario.

What would make this interesting for them in the short term is offering Leminto PCs at identical prices to their MS cousins, so that they keep the licencing fee as profit. Or, if in a generous mood, that money would go straight into Mint (or really Linux) development. But remember that their would Leminto-books... affordable yet powerful Linux 'Chromebooks'.

Yet even a branded move like this would still fail. Why? As stated way above at this point, the choice must be kind of forced. Users won't use these things unless countless users already do. Catch-22.

JOBS 101

So do what Apple did. When Apple started opening stores, they were loons. They did a "she loves me, she loves me not" trick that worked brilliantly. If you weren't paying attention about 10 years ago, for every Apple Store that was opened anywhere outside of California... one was opened INSIDE California. Did you miss it? It was really cool smart better of Apple to do this.

Why did they do this? To create the illusion that Apple was wildly popular in California. Where California goes, the nations follows? They opened stores absurdly fast in California. To stunning success, as we all know. This was a sheeple move, peeple. :wink: Build beyond belief and they will come. It was a brilliantly deployed spectacle from a company that was on a deathbed. Keyword: was.

So am I suggesting Lenovo open a ton of mall stores in California? Kinda. But only if they featured MS PCs and Linux PCs side by side. Or all of them were dual-boot from purchase. But in all honesty -- you'd still have all these nervous sheeple terribly afraid to switch -- despite all the shiny happy minty associates in the stores.

What's needed is what Linux does so well. Remove the choice altogether. In my opinion the way to pull THAT off is via school systems. This is where Google and Chrome are headed. Get Chrome in schools, game over. PCs are virus hotels, Macs are too pricey, Google wins.

My problem is I hate Google. They are Apple like in ambition but PC like in software delivery. Yeah, they get some things right. They also SUCK at other things. Trying to change settings in YouTube? What a piece of shoehorn design that is. GooglePuss? Nuff said. Heck, I uploaded a ton of stuff to Google Drive, only to learn a year later that I couldn't simply download it again without Google choosing new formats for me. What the Fab Four?!? Are you kidding me?!? What junk.

And so the only future I see for Linux is making the California school systems an offer they can't refuse. A Linux state.

GENERATION LINUX

With a quality hardware vendor in tow (Leminto) and a solid Linux (can't break it easily) -- the mindset would kill MS in my state. If delivered as both the best but also cheapest solution (cool smart better), it would only be a matter of time before other cash-strapped school systems across the country flipped too. And as you know, most of their old hardware would work anyway.

Yet on top of that carefully planned scenario, yet another problem exists. And it's a biggie.

Server side Cloud OSes. Right? Leminto School Systems would get tempting offers Cloud services via browsers. Cloud services have a fantastic yet frightening way of making the local OS basically irrelevant. We're better, we back up, and so why not just use us instead? Skydrive, Google Apps, iCloud. In this scenario the schools would buy the cheap Limentos but end up running Cloud services anyway --

-- unless Minty had it's own Cloud service which would then have to be SUPERIOR in all ways -- or they highway for Linux.

So really everything is mess at this point and I give up trying to reply on this topic.

:mrgreen:
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by lizlipz »

While using Windows, you are able to click on setup.exe or install.exe and applications install. Now install Linux Mint for example, download a tarball and see if you as a Windows user can figure out how to install it after extracting it. Some applications like KompoZer automatically provide a tarball compressed file. A google search will locate a .deb. But it will not install on Linux Mint 17.1 in my case. Glad I found SeaMonkey. Until installers are standardized between Distro's, newbys will return to Windows. Dave
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by deleted »

It's called yum, pacman, apt-get. All install apps that a particular distro repository contains.
No need to "standardize" installers.
-Hinto
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MartyMint
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by MartyMint »

lizlipz wrote:While using Windows, you are able to click on setup.exe or install.exe and applications install. Now install Linux Mint for example, download a tarball and see if you as a Windows user can figure out how to install it after extracting it. Some applications like KompoZer automatically provide a tarball compressed file. A google search will locate a .deb. But it will not install on Linux Mint 17.1 in my case. Glad I found SeaMonkey. Until installers are standardized between Distro's, newbys will return to Windows. Dave

I don't remember the last time I installed from tarball, having everything instantly available either through the stock repositories or PPA's...
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by MartyMint »

hinto wrote:It's called yum, pacman, apt-get. All install apps that a particular distro repository contains.
No need to "standardize" installers.
-Hinto

...and strangely, Microsoft is moving towards a "Store" model...

They're catching up. How adorable.
:roll:
mintybits
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by mintybits »

That's another problem...Linux isn't one product. There isn't a command structure. Diversity is the Linux culture. Having three or more ways to do the same thing is considered a good thing, even if they don't all do everything you would like. It is a quilt of a product with lots of groups sewing in their own apps that do what they find useful. There isn't a leadership that sets the objectives of every contributor and makes sure there is consistency and comprehensiveness and, most importantly, quality.

Diversity and a DIY patchwork quilt has its benefits. But it is a major reason, IMO, why new people give up on Linux or don't even bother with it. They would rather pay dollars for a managed system. They don't need the flexibility or the diversity nor are they too poor to buy software, nor are they tech-heads who get off on tinkering with the machinery.

Gates figured this out in the 1970s. Ironically, although we Linuxites complain about the cost of Windows, Gates made it the cheapest OS on the market. That's why it got adopted by IBM in the first place and we all have cheap PCs these days.

I don't enjoy Windows nor Apple OS because I find it too restrictive and too expensive...but I am a cheapskate. However, it is a lot easier to get things running on it and the device support for non-IT things is way better. That is not to say that devices cannot be supported on Linux, at least 80% as well, but it is sometimes a real PITA. Really basic stuff often becomes a huge time drain...like printers and Samba and USB issues. Now, I find tinkering fun so I don't mind the time-drain. Struggling to get something to work and finally achieving it gives me a masochistic pleasure. But I don't expect everyone to feel the same.

It intrigues me that Linux looks as if it has a great opportunity to make itself at least as good as Windows or Apple for the mainstream user. It cannot seem to get there. I don't know whether it is because it (whatever it is) doesn't want to or whether it cannot get organised or funded or all three. The Linux kernel is well maintained, of course, but it has a proper organisation of highly paid professionals to support it, eg: Linus Torvalds does not support Linux for free!
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by deleted »

Your DIY premise is wrong.
I can install a fresh distro (in a corporation) with disparate filesystems (Samba, NFS, NAS, AFS) and Active Directory and /etc/passwd authentication and be productive in about 20 mintutes (including creating the bootable iso with unetbootin).
That's not a testimony to me as an installer. It's a testimony to Linux installers and out of the box experience.
-Hinto

Edit: BTW the NYSE runs almost entirely on Linux.
At least when this article was written.
How Linux Mastered Wall Street

Hardly a patchwork.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by mintybits »

hinto wrote:Your DIY premise is wrong.
I can install a fresh distro (in a corporation) with disparate filesystems (Samba, NFS, NAS, AFS) and Active Directory and /etc/passwd authentication and be productive in about 20 mintutes (including creating the bootable iso with unetbootin).
That's not a testimony to me as an installer. It's a testimony to Linux installers and out of the box experience.
-Hinto

Edit: BTW the NYSE runs almost entirely on Linux.
At least when this article was written.
How Linux Mastered Wall Street

Hardly a patchwork.
Good for you! But you are a 46 year-old "Software Developer/Manager without the lobotomy".
I would say you are THE target user type for Linux. I may come to you for advice! :wink:

I am interpreting this thread as being about non-tech users who would otherwise use Apple or Android or Windows on a shop bought PC.

I am well aware that Linux (kernel + specialized software) is widely used in professional situations like the NYSE on specialised hardware. But the ordinary user isn't using those systems...they are using DIY distros like Mint. You won't find the NYSE's "trading software" in the Mint repositories. 8)
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by deleted »

BTW. My 5th grader just paved over an existing install, too.
Age doesn't matter.

Again, no DIY.
And you won't find NYSE software in Mint since it is proprietary.

What you will find is all the development tools needed for free to create the needed software, plus all the hardening tools that will make it hard to hack.
All installable from apt-get (synaptic or software manager)

I'm hardly the target for Linux. I'm ancient.

Most folks that say Windows is easier than Linux have never fully "enjoyed" installing Windows on a bare machine.
I have. After about 3-4 hrs and days of updates (using an OEM dvd) you'll finally get back, provided you're lucky enough to have a network card driver on the OEM dvd.

-Hinto
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by MartyMint »

mintybits wrote:But the ordinary user isn't using those systems...

That's fine.

I'm under no illusion that Linux will "magically" take over the desktop user space. But there's room for growth in the "enthusiast" community, or at least with anyone with more than a cursory understanding of computing. 5-10% would be the "sweet spot".
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by coffee412 »

I run a small business. I cater to Residential and Small Business customers. I have been doing this for about 6 years now but I have an extensive background in operating systems and hardware. I deal with a lot of computer illiterate people every day and I select those that fit my personal criteria for linux and have been quite successful at it. I have yet to have a customer decide to go back to windows.

I know I am going to be a bit off topic here but I do want to point this out. One of the basic reasons a lot of people do not use linux is because they do not hear about it. There are no commercials on tv about a particular brand and even if there are they are geared toward I.T. people. If you look at IBM commercials they always leave you with the feeling of "What are they talking about?". Couple this with the fact that windows comes on basically all new computers its pretty evident why its only approximately 4 percent of the market.

When your cruising thru the posts on the forum a lot of the problems that users run into are graphics, printers, wireless networking in general. Although Mint has done a great job in those areas, This is holding back a lot of people.

A lot of people do not even know how to boot from a dvd. Therefore, They are not going to experience linux at all they just stick with what is on the computer (windows) and go with that. Also, They go out and buy hardware that is not supported or they own hardware that isnt supported. This quickly puts them back in the windows camp.

Another smaller thing is when you boot up a Mint dvd the first thing you notice is the fonts are quite small and so is the panel. This turns people off because it has to be configured. They also do not understand the idea of different desktop enviroments available (KDE, LXDE, MATE, CINN ect...). Remember, These are people that are really totally computer illiterate and do not know the difference between their desktop and browser.

In my experience a lot of computer repair shops want nothing to do with linux in general. They are scared of the idea of fixing issues with customers computers. This is because they have been doing windows all their life and will stick with it as long as windows owns the market. I actually push linux to certain customers that meet some basic criteria. I have been quite successful with it too. Its a matter of matching up the right customer for linux thats all.

If my customer has kids with iphones, ipads and itunes then I am not going to try and convert them to linux. Support is rough there but that is apples fault. My customers for linux just want to be productive, Get online and browse, email, and print. Perhaps even hook their camera up to get their pictures off of it. They are great candidates for switching them over. Generally, These are the older computer users.

Just yesterday I had a customer call me and ask if their was something I could do to help with his problem of viruses. His kids are always infecting the computer. I told him about linux and he liked the idea. He wanted me to also prevent the kids from using the computer and installing things. He runs a HP printer. Easy switch over. He was really excited about linux Mint. I had him setup and running within an hour. Now he is quite happy. Also, Since no one in the area wants to service a linux box I have his business for life as long as I do a good job. :)

Ok, Done rambling....

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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by The Pool Man »

lizlipz wrote:While using Windows, you are able to click on setup.exe or install.exe and applications install. Now install Linux Mint for example, download a tarball and see if you as a Windows user can figure out how to install it after extracting it.
As a lifelong Mac user who recently VirtualBox'd his way over to Windows 8.1, I found installing on Windows not so intuitive. And as a Mac user I know .exe files can have virus or malware potential, where a Linux download is likely very safe.

The truthis that old school software installs on all three platforms are inconsistant and confusing. Download this, extract that, drag this over here, okay this, okay that, eject this, trash that -- sheesh! The entire point of a computer is to dispense with manual analog steps and make things faster.

This is why the app store paradigm Apple introduced is showing up everywhere*.

* I've since been schooled that this isn't true but I'm leaving this here so that said responses make sense.
Last edited by The Pool Man on Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by deleted »

Debian/RedHat/Suse/Solaris/BSD/Gentoo/Arch has had the Apple Store paradigm years before Apple.
-Hinto
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Post by The Pool Man »

coffee412 wrote:If my customer has kids with iphones, ipads and itunes then I am not going to try and convert them to linux. Support is rough there but that is apples fault.
This is kind of like saying, "It's Chiptoles fault I don't eat hamburgers at their restaurant."
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