Ubuntu is phasing out the notification area...

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linuxviolin
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Re: Ubuntu is phasing out the notification area...

Post by linuxviolin »

Kaye wrote:The ergonomics of buttons on the left are much more comfortable and make more sense than buttons on the right
Sorry but absolutely NOT! At least for me...
Kaye wrote:Ask yourself this question: What do you really need a notification area for?
Yes, I want the notification area, the system tray! And I'm not alone! :P :lol:

(I edited one of my previous posts to make an addition about the article. I do not know if it was seen as meanwhile many posts are arrived.)
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Re: Ubuntu is phasing out the notification area...

Post by MALsPa »

Recently, I complained to someone about the fact that Mint removed the "Mark All Upgrades" option from Synaptic. I figured, why not just leave it there, and if someone doesn't want to use it, then they could simply not use it. At least leave the functionality there under the "Edit" menu if you're going to remove the button from the main window. I don't like that it's been removed. I'd call that a "dictatorial" change. :lol:

And I guess it's a similar thing with this notification area. Why get rid of it if some people will still want to use it?

So, I can see the other side of the argument, here.


If I don't want to use a notification area or a system tray, I don't have to. If other people want to use it, fine. Like on the Xfce panel, I don't add the system tray to it, but it's there for other people to add if they want to. Or like in KDE, where I "hide" most of the icons in the system tray there, but not everyone chooses to do that.
Last edited by MALsPa on Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ubuntu is phasing out the notification area...

Post by MALsPa »

As for the buttons, I don't care where they are by default, it just makes me laugh when people whine and complain about that one. :lol:
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Re: Ubuntu is phasing out the notification area...

Post by FedoraRefugee »

MALsPa wrote:As for the buttons, I don't care where they are by default, it just makes me laugh when people whine and complain about that one. :lol:
Yeah, pretty much. :lol:

You know me, I am the last one in here to be concerned about the poor noob who cannot figure out the panel is on TOP of their screen... :roll:

I just think Ubuntu is making a mistake here, but it really does not mean anything to me. I do not use Ubuntu and if I did these things are not hard to "fix."
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Re: Ubuntu is phasing out the notification area...

Post by linuxviolin »

MALsPa wrote:Why get rid of it if some people will still want to use it?
Some people? No. It's the majority.
FedoraRefugee wrote:these things are not hard to "fix."
For you maybe but not for everybody :wink: And what is if Ubuntu makes a distro with defaults that everybody change after the install? Stupidity, ridiculous, dictatorial decision for a "change"... And what is for? For a handful of people agree with them or some guinea pigs who follow blindly? (of course I talk about nobody here, don't be hit by this)
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Re: Ubuntu is phasing out the notification area...

Post by FedoraRefugee »

linuxviolin wrote:
FedoraRefugee wrote:these things are not hard to "fix."
For you maybe but not for everybody :wink: And what is if Ubuntu makes a distro with defaults that everybody change after the install? Stupidity, ridiculous, dictatorial decision for a "change"... And what is for? For a handful of people agree with them or some guinea pigs who follow blindly? (of course I talk about nobody here, don't be hit by this)
No, I agree. I am on your side. I could see this confusing people. I mean, that sounds dumb to Kaye but look at some of the questions we get in here!

Thing is, I really don't much care. :D If someone is going to let left side window buttons deter them from Linux, the same if someone is going to let MY rude comment deter them from Linux, then so long! :wink:
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Re: Ubuntu is phasing out the notification area...

Post by Biker »

FedoraRefugee wrote: If someone is going to let left side window buttons deter them from Linux, the same if someone is going to let MY rude comment deter them from Linux, then so long! :wink:
Where does it stop, though? First it was the buttons. Now it's the notification area. What's next? "I don't like the menu at the bottom, so we're going to toss it on the right side because we feel it's better?"

This is one of the things that has caused me heartache from the beginning with Ubuntu and its variants. The developers change things based on how they think it should appear (things missing from Amarok, no update in FireFox, etc.). Isn't using Linux about choice and how the user would like things to appear and be used? It seems that the developers have taken the mindset from Microsoft and Apple. "We'll decide what's best for you, and you'll like it."

And I have just one thing to say about that.. Kiss my lily white arse! :mrgreen:
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Re: Ubuntu is phasing out the notification area...

Post by MALsPa »

linuxviolin wrote:
MALsPa wrote:Why get rid of it if some people will still want to use it?
Some people? No. It's the majority.
Maybe so. The majority of people who have posted in this thread agree with you, anyway!

It'll be interesting to see what Canonical decides about this.

What's up with all the name-calling, anyway? (How many times has the word "idiots" been used in this thread?)

Nobody's putting a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to use Ubuntu.

If you don't like it, then don't use it.

Plain and simple.

Now's as good a time as any for me to take the kids to the park. Have fun complaining! :lol:
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Re: Ubuntu is phasing out the notification area...

Post by FedoraRefugee »

Biker wrote:This is one of the things that has caused me heartache from the beginning with Ubuntu and its variants. The developers change things based on how they think it should appear (things missing from Amarok, no update in FireFox, etc.). Isn't using Linux about choice and how the user would like things to appear and be used? It seems that the developers have taken the mindset from Microsoft and Apple. "We'll decide what's best for you, and you'll like it."
But is that not what makes Linux so awesome? Like you say using Linux is about choice and we do have 300+ distros to choose from. Why not change things up? If Ubuntu thinks it has a better way then they should try it. Only time will tell! They will either lose popularity or become even bigger. No matter though, it does not affect me in any way. As I said way earlier, just let your patronage speak for you.
Last edited by FedoraRefugee on Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ubuntu is phasing out the notification area...

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FedoraRefugee wrote:No, I agree. I am on your side. I could see this confusing people. I mean, that sounds dumb to Kaye but look at some of the questions we get in here!
Yes, I know :D Except for the "For you maybe but not for everybody", my words were not about you... :wink:

Biker, for me it's clear: I don't use Ubuntu and probably I will not use it soon, if never one day...
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Re: Ubuntu is phasing out the notification area...

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MALsPa wrote:Maybe so. The majority of people who have posted in this thread agree with you, anyway!

It'll be interesting to see what Canonical decides about this.
Well, they do not have anything to do of this, they decide, you follow... or not. Period. :x
FedoraRefugee wrote:Only time will tell! They will either lose popularity or become even bigger.
Unfortunately the problem is the users are sometimes/often just stupid (excuse me MALsPA) and they just follow without really thinking... :roll:

Oh and like I said in another topic:
Well, CrunchBang goes to Debian, Mepis is back to Debian, Clem thinks about go to Debian... Hmm, people leave the ship?
Bugs, regressions, stupid changes etc from Ubuntu... and goodbye Ubuntu. Hmm, interesting... :roll:
Last edited by linuxviolin on Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:32 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Ubuntu is phasing out the notification area...

Post by Kaye »

At the end of the day, it's still people complaining about things being moved to different parts of the screen. If you have eyes, that shouldn't be a problem no matter how big a newbie you are.

As for the notification area, I don't actually have a huge problem with it, but I definitely think there are better alternatives. Whether or not this new menu system is better will have to be discovered in due time. My problem with the notification area is that certain applets (volume and networking) are tied to it so that I cannot get to them without a notification area.

I'm not saying I absolutely love these changes, people should just be more open. It isn't that big of a deal.
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Re: Ubuntu is phasing out the notification area...

Post by Robin »

Xubuntu has managed to avoid all this controversy. And both Karmic and Lucid versions of Xubuntu have been superbly done. I don't think I understand why Canonical treats Xubuntu like a step child, though. To illustrate, check out Canonical's ShipIt service, which offers free CDs of Ubuntu and Kubuntu, but not Xubuntu! Xubuntu had to make it's own arrangements with another vendor (On-Disk.com). It's developed independently, and I think it has made a big and positive difference in that little "neglected" distro. I suspect that with all these changes coming down, more and more people are going to try Xubuntu and Mint out and enjoy them as much as I do!

Spilling a well-kept secret,
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Re: Ubuntu is phasing out the notification area...

Post by Midnighter »

Mint and Ubuntu are supposed to be geared toward introducing people to linux who might not try it otherwise, newbies, and present them with a reasonable familiar, comfortable environment. All these "little changes" move further and further away from that. They need to quit trying to play catchup with Apple, and remember what it was they were trying to do in the first place. They seem to be forgetting what they started out doing. By "they", I am of course referring to Ubuntu (devs).
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Re: Ubuntu is phasing out the notification area...

Post by Midnighter »

Kaye wrote:
Midnighter wrote:
Kaye wrote:Just as with the infamous "moving of the buttons" everyone is once again making a huge deal out of nothing.

So, you just dismiss everyone else's concerns as "making a huge deal out of nothing"? Niiiice.
I've yet to hear a convincing argument to the contrary. These things are so trivial.. people complain about "change for the sake of change", but it's actually quite hypocritical because they're resisting change for the sake of not changing anything ever. The ergonomics of buttons on the left are much more comfortable and make more sense than buttons on the right, but no one ever pays any heed to that (it's too different!!!). But I digress, we should move away from the button talk.

Ask yourself this question: What do you really need a notification area for?
"I've yet to hear a convincing argument to the contrary"/ What a coincidence, I've yet to hear a convincing arguement for these disruptions at all myself. Just because you see something as "trivial" does not make it so to other users. Stop thinking your view is the only correct one. Why the **** do you think people keep disagreeing with things? They don't like things changing with no apparent benefit. Like the "buttons" issue, there was no apparent benefit. It was change for the sake of change, trying to be more like Apple. It's pathetic, and for a so-called "community" distro like Ubuntu, you'd think they'd consult more, and listen to, their base. But no, lets just change things around because WE think it looks good. Never mind what anyone else wants, WE like it. This mentality is one of the reasons I moved to Mint. If you're not listening to your community, then it isn't a community project, no matter what you claim. It isn't rocket science.

Edited to delete profanity.
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Re: Ubuntu is phasing out the notification area...

Post by Kaye »

Midnighter wrote: "I've yet to hear a convincing argument to the contrary"/ What a coincidence, I've yet to hear a convincing arguement for these disruptions at all myself. Just because you see something as "trivial" does not make it so to other users. Stop thinking your view is the only correct one. Why the **** do you think people keep disagreeing with things? They don't like things changing with no apparent benefit. Like the "buttons" issue, there was no apparent benefit. It was change for the sake of change, trying to be more like Apple. It's pathetic, and for a so-called "community" distro like Ubuntu, you'd think they'd consult more, and listen to, their base. But no, lets just change things around because WE think it looks good. Never mind what anyone else wants, WE like it. This mentality is one of the reasons I moved to Mint. If you're not listening to your community, then it isn't a community project, no matter what you claim. It isn't rocket science.
Clam down Midnighter.

Here is the bottom line of the situation. Moving a couple of buttons a couple of pixels to the left is trivial. My view is right, because my view is that I don't care. They could put the buttons in the middle of the window and I wouldn't care, because they will still be buttons that I click on to do the same exact things if they were a little further to the right.

As I said before, I prefer buttons on the left because my cursor spends most of the time on the left anyway (consider: this is where menus are situated, not to mention that it's completely natural to order things from left to right by importance because of the direction we read). But, I don't think it matters one little bit where they are by default. It's not like they're removing the buttons and putting a mini-command line in the upper left where you have to type commands to manipulate windows. A 5 year old child could figure out that the buttons are the same.

The problem with running big projects is that the voice of dissent is always much more powerful than that of agreement (this is human nature). The Ubuntu community has become a bunch of people whining about every change that comes through and calling it unnecessary. Why don't we just stop development and leave it where it is so that everyone stays happy? Because then they would all complain that enough wasn't being done.

Ubuntu has no reason to care what people say, because in the end it won't make a difference. Complaining about every change they push through is pointless and irritating, especially when the changes that are focused on most are the ones that matter the least. For example, the removal of the notification area carries much more impact then the moving of the buttons, yet this topic has reverted to that less important point anyway. I'd like someone to run a social experiment comparing people's reactions over the moved buttons after about a half hour of use. I'd be willing to bet a significant amount of money that the vast majority wouldn't mind the change at all, and that a decent portion would like the new placement.

Summary: I don't care where the buttons go, and no matter how much you curse and yell about it, in the end it still doesn't matter that they're 5 inches from where they used to be.
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Re: Ubuntu is phasing out the notification area...

Post by DrHu »

Kaye wrote:Just as with the infamous "moving of the buttons" everyone is once again making a huge deal out of nothing.

The notification area really is pointless if you think about it. Did any of you even read the article? If they can come up with a better way to handle these kind of things (processes running in the background, etc.) then there isn't a reason to have a notification area.
I read their article, and I don't agree with their opinion
  • I think people use the taskbar/systray/panel/notification area (which it isn't, this they are correct about), as a shortcuts location
now as a list of shortcuts it works: I could also add the launcher to the panel and get another list of application shortcuts, if I needed another place than menu to load programs. I also occasionally glance at the clock to see the time, while using the desktop
--it is either that or always wear a wristwatch or provide myself with a clock near the computer or provide an application that displays a clock, whenever I need to check the time
  • --I simply find the display on the panel(systray etc ) much more convenient
Rather than cluttering up the desktop with the tremendous number of icons/shortcuts I almost always see on every windows computer: I prefer an uncluttered look and a simple way to get to the files/applications wanted.
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Re: Ubuntu is phasing out the notification area...

Post by mick55 »

@Midnighter

Here is the solution to this irritating issue.

Code: Select all

sudo apt-get install Foster's
Repeat as necessary. :mrgreen:

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cheers
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Re: Ubuntu is phasing out the notification area...

Post by linuxviolin »

Kaye wrote:Moving a couple of buttons a couple of pixels to the left is trivial.
NO, it's not trivial. In addition to being stupid ideas, it is a symptom/an example of how to proceed of Dictator Mark. And I do not like it at all. I'm sorry. But just a little thing about this story with the windows buttons. Don't forget Mark said they move them to the left because in future release they want "to make something else" in the right side... What? Nobody knows again but I fear the worst and I see from here the handling errors of people wanting to use the buttons, mistaking and activating any other function... with the consequences more or less unfortunate that may have....
Kaye wrote:Ubuntu has no reason to care what people say
What a beautiful mind... Ok, so, accept all without say nothing... Sorry, I don't buy this! :evil:

On that note, good night! :D 8)
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Re: Ubuntu is phasing out the notification area...

Post by MALsPa »

FedoraRefugee wrote:But is that not what makes Linux so awesome? Like you say using Linux is about choice and we do have 300+ distros to choose from. Why not change things up? If Ubuntu thinks it has a better way then they should try it. Only time will tell! They will either lose popularity or become even bigger.
Yeah, why not change things up? Folks are certainly gonna criticize Ubuntu no matter what they do or don't do! I think it's kinda cool that they keep pushing things. That's what they should do, IMHO.

Canonical certainly knows how to stir things up! It's entertaining (yet, still somewhat surprising to me) that Ubuntu gets some people so angry -- even people who don't even use the distro! :lol:

(The hatred of Ubuntu and "brown" and Canonical and Shuttleworth -- in the face of Ubuntu's incredible popularity -- is, to me, one of the most fascinating aspects of today's Linux scene.)

For folks who still want to use Ubuntu and have serious concerns about the notification area being phased out, I hope it turns out to be better than you expected. There's always that chance that it could be a change for the better when it's all said and done!
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