Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

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Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Yes. Hundreds of Distros, each with multiple DE's, and some flooded app categories is too overwhelming for the general public.
54
40%
No. The insane amount of choice Linux offers is not limiting its popularity.
82
60%
 
Total votes: 136

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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by mmesantos1 »

I don't believe less choice is the answer, I believe more collaboration among the main distro's that the many other distro's are based upon is the answer here. Even though they may target many different groups of users they can all stand to gain from better collaboration. Though they may very in what parts they use ie boot loaders, installers, set released cycle or rolling release they could still benefit from it. A lack of consistency among the distro's makes it more dificult and there for less appealing for Companies to want to take a chance. If I am remembering correctly most of the linux used by Companies ends up being something created in house. A good example is Android, they did not go to one of the Large Distro's and ask will you make your distro work with my device, they created there own distro for there device and now it is successful. Now the other end of this spectrum is how you saw Dell for example put out some PC's with Ubuntu and it did not see the success Android did, although they are devices in a different class it still shows what can make or break linux in that type of Arena. It also shows the companies willing to take a chance on Linux want more control over the OS so they can guaranty it works the way it should. End the end any one puting mony on something wants a sure thing. :)
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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by mintnoob »

waldo wrote:
What I don't applaud is the attitude you and others have professed that only people who wish to make the effort to understand the intricacies of Linux deserve to be among the elite that use it. No, I don't want a free Windows. I want a Linux distro that can compete along side of Windows as a real alternative to Windows. For that to happen, it has to attract mainstream users, and the developers that desire their business.

The noted 1% of desktop users is a joke, and after all these years, it is an embarrassment. Why would hundreds of thousands of man hours (maybe millions) of programming be devoted to attracting so little usage? I can think of no reason other than the "atta boys" from other programmers. Oh, yes, and they got you using it. Perhaps that's all they need.
So true, so true.
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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by mintnoob »

MALsPa wrote:Seems to me that Linux is doing quite well in spite of this "problem." After after all, there are something like 500 distros, 22 DEs, 18 music players, etc., to choose from! How cool!
What's your definition of "doing quite well"?
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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by mintnoob »

Zwopper wrote:It's ALL about choices!
Linux is NOT for everybody, BUT everyone could probably use Linux and make it efficient for them - as long as there's choices.
I wonder how many people either just read my title, or fully didn't understand what I'm getting at.

I'm NOT saying there needs to be no choices, I'm arguing there is just a ridiculous amount of choice in Linux that's stifling its popularity.

I'm mean over 500 distros and Linux only has 1% of the OS market share. That's embarrassing.
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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by mintnoob »

exploder wrote:There is a lot to be learned from all of the distributions out there, different ideas and ways of accomplishing things. In my opinion, the best example of how a main stream system should be is PCLinuxOS 2010 KDE. No matter what the product is, continuous improvement and overall quality will prevail. The rolling release concept combined with continuous bug fixing is the way to get the attention of oems that can put Linux in the hands of the masses.

Linux Mint is the ideal user friendly gnome system but it currently does not have application updates provided in the main repos, this is a drawback for the non technical user. The Ubuntu updates are an issue as well because they just don't seem to test things very well. There is a poll on the Ubuntu forum regarding application updates, so far updates are the favored choice.

I really believe Linux can become much more popular but the current dominating distribution (Ubuntu) is not what's going to achieve this with their current policies in place.

Edit: Here is the poll I mentioned.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1478564
Be clear that I'm not asking if too much choice in the #1 reason that's stifling Linux' popularity. I know there are many reasons. I just wonder if I'm the only one who think too much choice is also a reason.
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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by mintnoob »

mmesantos1 wrote:I don't believe less choice is the answer, I believe more collaboration among the main distro's that the many other distro's are based upon is the answer here. Even though they may target many different groups of users they can all stand to gain from better collaboration.
I think you're essentially agreeing with me. More collaboration means less real choice because distros will become more of the same.
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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by Zwopper »

mintnoob wrote:
Zwopper wrote:It's ALL about choices!
Linux is NOT for everybody, BUT everyone could probably use Linux and make it efficient for them - as long as there's choices.
I wonder how many people either just read my title, or fully didn't understand what I'm getting at.

I'm NOT saying there needs to be no choices, I'm arguing there is just a ridiculous amount of choice in Linux that's stifling its popularity.

I'm mean over 500 distros and Linux only has 1% of the OS market share. That's embarrassing.
IMHO you really don't get the idea of Linux at all...
Well, whatever gets you through chief. :mrgreen:
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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by mintnoob »

Zwopper wrote:IMHO you really don't get the idea of Linux at all...
What is the idea of Linux then?
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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by markfiend »

mintnoob wrote:
Zwopper wrote:IMHO you really don't get the idea of Linux at all...
What is the idea of Linux then?
I said this on page 2 of the thread...
markfiend wrote:No-one really gives a hoot about market share, because Linux isn't about making money. What Linux is about is the free flow of ideas.
Regarding your complaint of "too much choice":

Take your example of music players. Say if John Q Developer wants features X, Y and Z out of my music player, and none of the available players include these features. He might try to persuade (say) the rhythmbox developers to introduce the features he wants. But if they're not interested in implementing them (and nor are the developers of banshee, songbird, etc.) what then?

He would probably decide to fork the code of an existing music player, or even start one from scratch. So the number of music players increases by one.

How do you propose preventing this? You can't unless you start imposing limits on the essential freedom of GNU/Linux. Essentially what you're saying to Mr Developer is "hey, don't spend your free time how you want to spend it, on your own fork of rhythmbox, spend it how I want you to spend it."

And finally, 1% is actually pretty good showing for a "product" with essentially zero promotion budget. Why does Linux's market share bother you?
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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by Biker »

mintnoob wrote: I think you're essentially agreeing with me. More collaboration means less real choice because distros will become more of the same.
Heaven forbid. Because I can't stand the direction some distributions have taken. The developers have adopted a "we know better than you" attitude and are taking the distribution down the same path that has created an entire generation of users who don't have a clue.
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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by FedoraRefugee »

mintnoob wrote:
Zwopper wrote:IMHO you really don't get the idea of Linux at all...
What is the idea of Linux then?
Instead of having an argumentative attitude, and insisting that Linux is hard,, or full of elitist geeks, why don't you think about some of the things the rest of us have been telling you in this thread? Zwopper is right, some of you just don't get it and some never will! I think you can, I think you can rise above the "market share fanboy" stuff. It really is not what Linux is all about. Linux is not going to take over from Windows and it will never be a major household desktop! That is not an embarrassment, it is an ASSET!

But...As zwopper says, whatever floats your boat! It takes all kinds and there is certainly room in FOSS for the "free Windows" crowd. You can certainly contribute just as much as the geekiest oldschool guru with the biggest elitist attitude possible. I am talking the Grumpy Old Troll here, yelling at all the noobs, "get off my distro!" There is room for both. I am good with that. The problem with you and Waldo is you lump everyone who disagrees with you on this choice thing into that category. It is your lack of understanding, not ours. :)

Mintnoob, there is no reason to create 5 back to back posts! Just use the quote tags manually! It is easy. Just type the bracket [ then "quote" in lowercase. If you want to include the name of the person you are responding to just use equal (=) with quote marks around their name.="jn4oldschool". Finish with open bracket [ then /quote then closed bracket ].

But yeah, I know...That is too hard or too geeky and only for us 1337 posters. Yeah...That is why you do not get Linux... :wink:

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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by MALsPa »

mintnoob wrote:
MALsPa wrote:Seems to me that Linux is doing quite well in spite of this "problem." After after all, there are something like 500 distros, 22 DEs, 18 music players, etc., to choose from! How cool!
What's your definition of "doing quite well"?
Fair enough.

I didn't have much of a background in computers. I don't have a Computer Science degree or anything. But I started tinkering around with Linux some years ago, and in a few years I completely got rid of Windows. Haven't needed anything from Microsoft since. So, if someone like me can do that, then that tells me that Linux is doing quite well. Maybe to you that is not a correct point of view; but it looks to me as if I'll be able to use Linux for the rest of the time that I'm given to walk this dusty old Earth. So, you see, the lack of popularity that you are so concerned about is not an issue here. Linux is doing fine, it isn't going to dry up and disappear overnight, it's going to be there for anyone who wants to use it. To me, that's the important thing -- folks can choose to use Linux, and they can choose to use only Linux, if they want to.
mintnoob wrote:More collaboration means less real choice because distros will become more of the same.
Bleh. I don't want to see distros becoming more of the same.

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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by MALsPa »

mintnoob wrote:More collaboration means less real choice because distros will become more of the same.
:(

Just think, no new distros. No Peppermint OS...

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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by linuxviolin »

MALsPa wrote:
mintnoob wrote:More collaboration means less real choice because distros will become more of the same.
Bleh. I don't want to see distros becoming more of the same.
Hmm, but this can perhaps bring better quality... :roll:
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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by FedoraRefugee »

linuxviolin wrote:
MALsPa wrote:
mintnoob wrote:More collaboration means less real choice because distros will become more of the same.
Bleh. I don't want to see distros becoming more of the same.
Hmm, but this can perhaps bring better quality... :roll:
Wrong! It would, in fact, cause a deterioration in quality and would actually cause Linux to LOSE users!

The fact that there are so many distros and apps are what is driving the evolution. Everyone with a better idea can utilize it and (eventually) the successful ideas win out.

You believe that by combining all resources into a single project it will make that project better but that is wrong! Developers will lose enthusiasm for projects they are not personally invested in and they will have disputes with those who are above them. Since no one actually gets paid money personal satisfaction is usually the only motivation for producing. Lose that and you simply find a better past time.

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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by linuxviolin »

FedoraRefugee wrote:You believe that by combining all resources into a single project.
A single project? I never said that! :shock:
FedoraRefugee wrote: It would, in fact, cause a deterioration in quality
You know, the quality is already quite low often...
FedoraRefugee wrote:are what is driving the evolution.

Evolution? Hmm, ok, then I think sometimes I would prefer there was not evolution. :roll:
FedoraRefugee wrote:Everyone with a better idea can utilize it
Yeah, and we have a lot of pre-pubescent people moving all over, in every sense, playing with their toys etc ... and a lot of crap.

P.S.= To answer to the question of this topic: no, I don't think less choice will make Linux more popular... but more neither. The problem is not there.
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by wenchkin »

I don't think too much choice is damaging Linux. What I found more awkward as a newbie was the lack of documentation written in a way that a beginner could learn from - a lot of enter this command then these ones and very little "this command does x, if it breaks you should try y". The fun a newbie can have when they break Linux and rely on documentation lol! Usually if someone tells me they don't fancy Linux it's because they think it'll be hard to learn and they're afraid of terminal. I find the choice of distros and apps actually helps me "sign up" new Linux users because the whole experience can be tailored to them. If one thing doesn't suit, something else does.

Just as an example, my partner and I both use Linux but we're on different distros and pretty much all our application choices are different. Sometimes we match up, we both DJ in Secondlife with Jack/IDJC for example. But even if I took music apps as an example, I've used a variety of players - Songbird, Exaile, Amarok briefly and now Rhythmbox. It would be cool to have all the great features from each in one single player, but how realistic is it to expect all those developers to agree on what "best" actually was? Or is it better that we have all the different projects to evaluate and a developer can take from A, B and C to make distro/app D? We're open source so I don't think that development time is wasted when you can do that. If it was closed source I think we'd have a problem ;)

To give another example, look at the different profiles users have - gamers, educators, artists, musicians....etc. I think it would be a real shame if we moved towards a one size fits all OS and application pool. We can instead design whole distros around specific uses which IMHO is far better than Windows will ever be. It's far from ideal if you install a distro then have to remove half the installed software in favour of your own choices. And don't they have more versions of Windows 7 than they did say XP? I'm sure I read there were like 8 versions of Win 7 now. I think we're just fine as we are, and if anyone wants something really specific from Linux it's probably better to ask an experienced Linux user to recommend a distro/app choice than try to prune back the choices we have.

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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by mintnoob »

I was hoping to see at least 100 votes on this pole. After 30 votes, it's about 40/60. I think of lot of "no" votes were votes of pride and denial (sorry, that's how I feel), so I think a lot of people agree with me that the insane amount of choice is stifling Linux.

I hope current and future Linux programmers will keep this in mind.
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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by MALsPa »

You might also consider that, as with many polls, the wording of the questions in the poll's choices is biased in favor of the position that the creator of the poll is taking.

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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by FedoraRefugee »

mintnoob wrote:I was hoping to see at least 100 votes on this pole. After 30 votes, it's about 40/60. I think of lot of "no" votes were votes of pride and denial (sorry, that's how I feel), so I think a lot of people agree with me that the insane amount of choice is stifling Linux.

I hope current and future Linux programmers will keep this in mind.

Ha! Lol so you will MAKE it say what you want no matter what it ACTUALLY says? :lol:

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