Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

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Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Yes. Hundreds of Distros, each with multiple DE's, and some flooded app categories is too overwhelming for the general public.
54
40%
No. The insane amount of choice Linux offers is not limiting its popularity.
82
60%
 
Total votes: 136

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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by mintnoob »

MALsPa wrote:You might also consider that, as with many polls, the wording of the questions in the poll's choices is biased in favor of the position that the creator of the poll is taking.
"Less choice" doesn't sound like a favorable position to me.
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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by MALsPa »

mintnoob wrote:I think a lot of people agree with me that the insane amount of choice is stifling Linux
Ignoring the fact that a lot of people simply disagree with you.

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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by mintnoob »

FedoraRefugee wrote:Ha! Lol so you will MAKE it say what you want no matter what it ACTUALLY says? :lol:
Are you saying no one voted in a biased manner?
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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by FedoraRefugee »

mintnoob wrote:
FedoraRefugee wrote:Ha! Lol so you will MAKE it say what you want no matter what it ACTUALLY says? :lol:
Are you saying no one voted in a biased manner?
confused is a "biased" manner? I hope EVERYONE voted in a biased manner! I am biased in that I feel we need more choice, not less. You are biased in that you think there is too much choice!

edit: I am actually surprised that you got 11 votes! I need to find out who those people are so I can "work" on them! :lol:
Last edited by FedoraRefugee on Thu May 20, 2010 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by mintnoob »

MALsPa wrote:
mintnoob wrote:I think a lot of people agree with me that the insane amount of choice is stifling Linux
Ignoring the fact that a lot of people simply disagree with you.
40% is a big chunk and if I'm correct that there was a lot of biased/denial voting in favor of a "no" vote, then I'd say about HALF of Linuxers agree with me.

Even if it is only about 40% who agree with me, is that not a big % of Linuxers to listen too?
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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by MALsPa »

mintnoob wrote:
MALsPa wrote:You might also consider that, as with many polls, the wording of the questions in the poll's choices is biased in favor of the position that the creator of the poll is taking.
"Less choice" doesn't sound like a favorable position to me.
What I am talking about is that you wrote "No. The insane amount of choice Linux offers is not limiting its popularity." Why even use the word "insane" there? It could and should have been left out. That shows the bias of the person that created the poll. Same with the first question. The wording should have been simplified to remove the bias. It could have been simply "yes" or "no" but you threw your commentary in there. That kind of thing happens with a lot of polls.

But it really doesn't matter. How are you going to get people to NOT create new distros? How is anyone going to limit the number of distros? Are you gonna tell Kendall that he shouldn't be putting Peppermint OS out there? With your stance, there would never have been a Linux Mint, PCLinuxOS, Ubuntu, or Mepis, can you not understand that? Did the creation of any of those Linux spin-offs help to stifle the popularity of Linux? Is the creation of Peppermint OS going to hurt the popularity of Linux?

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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by mintnoob »

FedoraRefugee wrote:
mintnoob wrote:
FedoraRefugee wrote:Ha! Lol so you will MAKE it say what you want no matter what it ACTUALLY says? :lol:
Are you saying no one voted in a biased manner?
confused is a "biased" manner? I hope EVERYONE voted in a biased manner! I am biased in that I feel we need more choice, not less. You are biased in that you think there is too much choice!
Maybe you just don't understand like you think I don't understand the spirit of Linux.

As an American, I would normally think that more choice is better. But being able to objectively look at this issue, I can see that the so much choice in Linux is actually stifling it, even though one of the reasons I like Linux is it gives you more choice than Windows and Mac.

Voting in a biased manner would be those who love Linux so much that they don't want anyone to criticize anything about it.

So after explaining this, are you saying no one voted in a biased manner?
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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by MALsPa »

mintnoob wrote:are you saying no one voted in a biased manner?
Everyone did, of course. It's an opinion poll, isn't it?

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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by MALsPa »

mintnoob wrote:Voting in a biased manner would be those who love Linux so much that they don't want anyone to criticize anything about it.
That's your definition of voting in a biased manner?
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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by Biker »

It's not holding anything back. If anything, the choice of distro's out there will please even the newest of Linux users.

My primary distribution is a Slackware based distro. I installed Mint out of curiosity, but it will never become my primary distro. Why? 1) I hate sudo. 2) I dislike Gnome even more. 3) I dislike Ubuntu even more than I dislike sudo and Gnome.

However, I will give Mint this. It opened my eyes to Grub2. I love it. It has since replaced LILO is my boot loader.

Choice is a good thing. Just because YOU may not like distro hopping to see what's out there, countless others do. I've found some great distributions by giving them a test spin, and some I've even stayed with over the years. It's also given me a broader knowledge of how Linux works under the hood, which has benefited me greatly when dealing with production servers.
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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by FedoraRefugee »

I went to cook lunch and I had one heck of a thought. But MALsPa beat me to it!

Let's say you are right! Better yet, let's say EVERYONE here agrees with you! Now what?

How are you going to force people to pull their distros? Tell them it is for the "common good?" :roll: Why is it that there are always people who want to dictate to others for the "common good?" Who made YOU the keeper of the common good?

That is all bogus anyway. YOU explain to Kendall that he will have to pull Peppermint! Or does he get to keep that one? Who decides? Maybe if it has a distrowatch ranking under 10th place we just unilaterally dump it? For real!

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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by mintnoob »

MALsPa wrote:
mintnoob wrote:
MALsPa wrote:You might also consider that, as with many polls, the wording of the questions in the poll's choices is biased in favor of the position that the creator of the poll is taking.
"Less choice" doesn't sound like a favorable position to me.
What I am talking about is that you wrote "No. The insane amount of choice Linux offers is not limiting its popularity." Why even use the word "insane" there? It could and should have been left out. That shows the bias of the person that created the poll. Same with the first question. The wording should have been simplified to remove the bias. It could have been simply "yes" or "no" but you threw your commentary in there. That kind of thing happens with a lot of polls.
OK, I'll give you that, but do you disagree with me that there is an "insane" amount of choice in Linux? I thought I was just being honest.
But it really doesn't matter. How are you going to get people to NOT create new distros? How is anyone going to limit the number of distros?
The only way is to create of climate where programmers are urged to think does Linux really need another distro or another app in a field already flooded with apps (such as music players). The way to create that climate is for well-known and respected Linuxers to start speaking out against too much choice and for respected websites to not promote too much choice, like Distro watch promoting a 100 distros on their front page Page Hit Ranking and over 300 on their "How popular is your distribution?" page.
Are you gonna tell Kendall that he shouldn't be putting Peppermint OS out there?
Let me guess, it's another lightweight DE?!
With your stance, there would never have been a Linux Mint, PCLinuxOS, Ubuntu, or Mepis, can you not understand that? Did the creation of any of those Linux spin-offs help to stifle the popularity of Linux? Is the creation of Peppermint OS going to hurt the popularity of Linux?
Again, you are trying to misrepresent me in making it sound like I want no choices. I'm not suggesting any of those popular distro to go away, or that they should go away. I am saying that the other 450 irrelevent and obscure distro should! :lol:
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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by mintnoob »

MALsPa wrote:
mintnoob wrote:are you saying no one voted in a biased manner?
Everyone did, of course. It's an opinion poll, isn't it?
You don't understand the difference between an objective opinion and a biased one?

Someone with an objective opinion gives that opinion because they think it's the correct answer.

Someone with a biased opinion answers in the way that they think is favorable to their side, regardless if they think it's the correct answer or not.
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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by mintnoob »

Biker wrote:It's not holding anything back. If anything, the choice of distro's out there will please even the newest of Linux users.

My primary distribution is a Slackware based distro. I installed Mint out of curiosity, but it will never become my primary distro. Why? 1) I hate sudo. 2) I dislike Gnome even more. 3) I dislike Ubuntu even more than I dislike sudo and Gnome.

However, I will give Mint this. It opened my eyes to Grub2. I love it. It has since replaced LILO is my boot loader.

Choice is a good thing. Just because YOU may not like distro hopping to see what's out there, countless others do. I've found some great distributions by giving them a test spin, and some I've even stayed with over the years. It's also given me a broader knowledge of how Linux works under the hood, which has benefited me greatly when dealing with production servers.
I'm complaining about the ridiculousness of having over 500 distros and you make is sound like I'm complaining about there being more than one distro. Please understand my position before making yourself look ignorant.
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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by FedoraRefugee »

Listen Mintnoob does have a point in that there ARE an insane number of distros available. Most of them really have nothing new or different to offer either. I agree with that. But is it really confusing to people? I do not think so. But even if it is, so what? Why is this an issue for you?

I think I might switch sides though. I think Mintnoob showed me the light here. We need to get rid of ALL distros EXCEPT for Arch Linux! No forks! They also need to get rid of the installer! Everyone should be FORCED to build their Arch install! And no KDE either! Too many desktop environments, it is WAY too confusing! Fluxbox for everyone. It is hard to learn, but if everyone were forced to do it then the world would be a better place! Yes...I think I am onto something! We will do it! Thanks Mintnoob!

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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by MALsPa »

Biker wrote:It's also given me a broader knowledge of how Linux works under the hood, which has benefited me greatly when dealing with production servers.
Very good point. By trying out different distros, and then eventually settling into a multi-boot routine, I had the chance to compare and contrast how things were done in various Linux distros. Folks in the field of education will tell you that "compare and contrast" is a great learning approach, and that's how things have gone for me in Linux. I believe that looking at a number of distros has helped me to become a better Linux user, and I feel more prepared for whatever might come up.

This same principal came into play as I explored various desktop environments and window managers. At one time, I was a KDE guy, and didn't like GNOME at all. Then I installed Xfce, and Fluxbox, and Openbox, and E16. Then I came back to GNOME and had a much better understanding of how things were put together, and found out that I liked it after all. Exploring a variety of DEs and WMs was a big help to me.

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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by Biker »

FedoraRefugee wrote:I think I might switch sides though. I think Mintnoob showed me the light here. We need to get rid of ALL distros EXCEPT for Arch Linux! No forks! They also need to get rid of the installer! Everyone should be FORCED to build their Arch install! And no KDE either! Too many desktop environments, it is WAY too confusing! Fluxbox for everyone. It is hard to learn, but if everyone were forced to do it then the world would be a better place! Yes...I think I am onto something! We will do it! Thanks Mintnoob!
Absolutely not. If we're going to put all users through hell, then everyone needs to start off with a Gentoo Stage 1 tarball and go from there. :mrgreen: :lol:
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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by mintnoob »

FedoraRefugee wrote:How are you going to force people to pull their distros?
Where did I ever suggest forcing people into less choice? Again, please stop misrepresenting my position.
Tell them it is for the "common good?" :roll: Why is it that there are always people who want to dictate to others for the "common good?" Who made YOU the keeper of the common good?
If you're fine with so much time and effort put into Linux resulting in only 1% of the PC market share, then keep doing things the way they are. You're doing a heckof a job!
That is all bogus anyway. YOU explain to Kendall that he will have to pull Peppermint! Or does he get to keep that one? Who decides?
The top brass of Linux Mint would of course, they hold the power. Hopefully they'll allow the LinxMint community a say. Maybe start a poll and/or hear pros & cons and hopefully the top brass will make the right decision for not only LinuxMint, but the entire Linux community.
Last edited by mintnoob on Thu May 20, 2010 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by Biker »

AHA! So it's boiling down to that old tired argument? 1% market share? Who bloody cares what the market share is?
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Re: Would Linux be more popular with LESS choice?

Post by mintnoob »

FedoraRefugee wrote:Listen Mintnoob does have a point in that there ARE an insane number of distros available. Most of them really have nothing new or different to offer either. I agree with that. But is it really confusing to people? I do not think so. But even if it is, so what? Why is this an issue for you?

I think I might switch sides though. I think Mintnoob showed me the light here. We need to get rid of ALL distros EXCEPT for Arch Linux! No forks! They also need to get rid of the installer! Everyone should be FORCED to build their Arch install! And no KDE either! Too many desktop environments, it is WAY too confusing! Fluxbox for everyone. It is hard to learn, but if everyone were forced to do it then the world would be a better place! Yes...I think I am onto something! We will do it! Thanks Mintnoob!
Let me add immaturity along with bias and denial to the list of some of the "no" voters.
Last edited by mintnoob on Thu May 20, 2010 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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