Best browser for Linux?

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linuxviolin
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Re: Best browser for Linux?

Post by linuxviolin »

MALsPa wrote:And as I mentioned before, some of us really don't care for widgets. Bleh. :lol:
I use no widgets. I don't want this kind of things and I don't need them... :P
AndrewH wrote:Each tab in Chrome (and Chromium) is its own self-contained process. That is, if you're running 15 tabs, you're essentially running 15 separate browsers. Sounds ridiculous at first, till you realise this makes the browser extremely stable: one unstable tab doesn't crash the entire browser, just that single tab. Obviously Chrome is going to use more memory running multiple tabs than a browser that doesn't manage tabs in this manner.
So, this is why there is a problem... I have always many tabs in use, in one or two windows. If Chrome can not make that, then it is impracticable. Again, it's the only browser that can almost block a whole desktop. And I am with XFCE.

I think I'll probably go back to Opera and Firefox...
Last edited by linuxviolin on Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Best browser for Linux?

Post by JonM33 »

MALsPa wrote:Man, comparing Linux' lack of popularity and Opera's lack of popularity is comparing apples to oranges. The respective reasons for it are completely different. I kinda figured you'd say something like that, though.
Actually, they have something in common: < 2% market share for their product. So both must not be good, right? I mean, according to your logic?
MALsPa wrote:Maybe so. Or maybe if Opera had extensions, it too would have significant market share. Or maybe it would be more popular if it was an open source browser. Who knows? Who cares? I'd certainly like it more if it had extensions, but it doesn't.

Opera's been out for a much longer time than Firefox, but has it ever had the market share that Firefox now enjoys? Or even anything close to it? Maybe it has -- I really don't know.
Almost nobody gives a flying crap about Firefox being open source. What, you think the 30% of the browser market that uses Firefox are all open source fanatics? I'd wager 99.9% of them have NO CLUE what open source even means. When I used word of mouth to spread Firefox, I didn't tell people a damn thing about open source. I would have gotten deer in headlight looks from them. I just told them it was faster, safer than IE6 and blocked pop-ups. Bam! Instant customer!

Firefox extensions = Opera widgets.

In fact, it is well known that using too many Firefox extensions can make Firefox unstable. Firefox even recommends to disable/uninstall all extensions if you are having stability issues! Yea, I want something that modifies my browser but makes it crash all the time. That's a great thing! :roll:
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Re: Best browser for Linux?

Post by MALsPa »

JonM33 wrote:Firefox extensions = Opera widgets.
:lol:

Not true.


JonM33 wrote:In fact, it is well known that using too many Firefox extensions can make Firefox unstable.
Then I guess I'm fortunate that I don't use too many Firefox extensions. Or is 4-6 extensions too many, in your knowledgeable opinion?


JonM33 wrote:Almost nobody gives a flying crap about Firefox being open source.
I"m sure you're right, JonM33. As always.

But I do give a flying crap about Firefox being open source. That's why they call me "Almost Nobody." :lol:


JonM33 wrote:Actually, they have something in common: < 2% market share for their product. So both must not be good, right? I mean, according to your logic?
Wow, man. Okay, that was partly just a dig when I said, "Because Opera isn't as good." But I think that one of the reasons Opera's popularity is low is because a lot of people like add-ons, and Opera doesn't have them. I know it's a big reason why Opera's not my favorite browser. I know that other people feel the same way.

Whatever. I'm not trying to convince you not to use Opera, It's a great browser -- for you! Not for me.
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Re: Best browser for Linux?

Post by eiver »

Well, for vast majority of people ANY modern browser will do just fine. It is only us - geeks on this forum, who pay attention to details or features mentioned in this topic.
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Re: Best browser for Linux?

Post by markcynt »

JonM33 wrote:Actually, they have something in common: < 2% market share for their product. So both must not be good, right? I mean, according to your logic?
That figure is a little misleading, since an estimated 20 - 40 % of servers are run by Linux and some figures estimate up to a 5 % share for the desktop market.

And desktop use of Linux has become increasingly popular in recent years.

Opera market share just stays the same year after year.
JonM33 wrote: Almost nobody gives a flying crap about Firefox being open source. What, you think the 30% of the browser market that uses Firefox are all open source fanatics? I'd wager 99.9% of them have NO CLUE what open source even means.
You're right about people not knowing anything about open source for the most part.

But the reason FF is more popular is because it's open source. Without all the different contributors to FF and it's extensions FF would be in the same boat as Opera, no market share growth.

I'm not saying Opera is bad. It will just never be popular, especially amongst Linux users, with their closed source philosophy.
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Re: Best browser for Linux?

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markcynt wrote:But the reason FF is more popular is because it's open source. Without all the different contributors to FF and it's extensions FF would be in the same boat as Opera, no market share growth.

I'm not saying Opera is bad. It will just never be popular, especially amongst Linux users, with their closed source philosophy.
This is a more measured and probably closer to the truth view. :!: Even if with Mozilla behind it, it is probably easier for it to get a spot, if you see what I mean. :wink:
MALsPa wrote:Or is 4-6 extensions too many, in your knowledgeable opinion?
I wonder what extensions you use which are not in Opera. Just curious... :D

Opera has many things already build-in, to do the same things in Firefox you must add several extensions. Opera has always/usually been ahead of other, e.g. it was the the first browser to have tabs. Now it has for instance Opera Link and Opera Unite. What browser currently has some things like these already build-in? (Even if Chrome has now the synchronization)
eiver wrote:Well, for vast majority of people ANY modern browser will do just fine. It is only us - geeks on this forum, who pay attention to details or features mentioned in this topic.
I don't think so, sorry.
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Re: Best browser for Linux?

Post by markcynt »

markcynt wrote:
I'm not saying Opera is bad. It will just never be popular, especially amongst Linux users, with their closed source philosophy.
Just so I'm not misunderstood, "their closed source philosophy" refers to Opera's philosophy

Many Linux users only want open source but I think the majority could care less. I know I could care less. I just want the best product.

linuxviolin wrote:Opera has many things already build-in
Not enough.
linuxviolin wrote:to do the same things in Firefox you must add several extensions.
At least I have the option.

Basically with FF you can do whatever you want, add whatever you want.

With Opera you're limited to what Opera (and only Opera) allows (closed source philosophy).

Yes, Opera has lots of features but the bottom line for most people is that it doesn't have enough.

Opera has been around forever and is still stuck in the same spot in popularity.
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Re: Best browser for Linux?

Post by MALsPa »

linuxviolin wrote:I wonder what extensions you use which are not in Opera. Just curious...
1. Xmarks. While Opera has bookmark synching, what I prefer about Xmarks is that it makes it easy for me to synch my bookmarks between Firefox, Chromium, and Google Chrome. It really doesn't take much effort to synch them with Opera, but I can't use Xmarks to do it.

2. Adblock Plus. Now, we have a difference of opinion about this, but my opinion is that Adblock Plus is a quicker and better solution than what you have to do for ad-blocking in Opera. Please, let's not go into this again, I already know that you don't agree, but Adblock Plus is easier for me.

3. Forecastfox. I'm sorry, but the weather "widgets" in Opera are not equal to Forecastfox. I have Forecastfox sitting nicely up on the main menubar, out of the way, and it does what I want it to do. The weather widgets in Opera bug me. Also, the two that I tried (before I gave up on them) didn't even work.

4. Flashblock.

In other distros, I've also added Tab Mix Plus and Better Privacy, but I haven't bothered to add those in Isadora. Opera has a good tabs tool, but I don't think you can do as much with it as Tab Mix Plus. I'm not aware of anything in Opera like Better Privacy, but it isn't really something I need, anyway -- I was just playing around with it to see what it was all about.

I don't think I'll be needing any other Firefox add-ons, but the cool thing is that if I do hear about one that I'm interested, I can go and check it out, and that's something I like about Firefox (and Chrome/Chromium).
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Re: Best browser for Linux?

Post by linuxviolin »

markcynt wrote:
linuxviolin wrote:Opera has many things already build-in
Not enough.

(...)

Basically with FF you can do whatever you want, add whatever you want.

With Opera you're limited to what Opera (and only Opera) allows (closed source philosophy).

Yes, Opera has lots of features but the bottom line for most people is that it doesn't have enough.
You're joking probably... Opera provides by default many more things than Firefox! Maybe you have not the extensions or exactly whatever you would wish but they, the extensions, are a source of instability, sometimes even of problems, and it is not advisable to use many of them...

Rather say just: Opera has not what I want...
Last edited by linuxviolin on Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Best browser for Linux?

Post by linuxviolin »

@ MALsPA

1. Xmarks.
Your information is always there, with Opera Link

Opera Link is a convenient way to share browser information between computers and devices, so you always have it with you, wherever you go.

With most devices, you can synchronize custom search engines and typed history. Any Web-site address you have typed in one device will be available in your other computers or mobile phones running Opera. You can even log in to the Web version of Opera Link (on My Opera) to see your bookmarks, notes and Speed Dial from any browser.

Opera Link synchronizes your

* Bookmarks
* Speed Dial
* Personal bar *
* Notes *
* Typed browser history *
* Custom searches

* Not available in Opera Mini.

Learn how to start using Opera Link in the Get Started section.

Simple and automated

Log in once, and Opera will keep your browser data synchronized until you log out. Once you enable Opera Link, the synchronization process is automatic, and you can choose which information you want to synchronize across all your devices running Opera.

Your data is kept safe

Opera Link keeps your browser information safe, in case your hard drive crashes or you forget your laptop on the bus. A copy of your information is securely stored in a remote location, and all you have to do is log in to Opera Link to get it back.
(from http://www.opera.com/link/)

Maybe you can find this more "difficult" than an extension... :roll: But yes, it's between Opera products but "You can even log in to the Web version of Opera Link (on My Opera) to see your bookmarks, notes and Speed Dial from any browser."
Accessing Opera Link from other browsers and devices

If you use a computer or device with a browser that does not support Opera Link, you can still access your browser information. Go to link.opera.com to log in to the Web version of Opera Link.
(from http://www.opera.com/link/start/)

2. Adblock Plus.

I think you confuse me with JonM33, I guess. I don't think to have said something about the Firefox extension. I have just given to you the trick about the css file for Opera. :wink: But, for me, I don't think in Opera this is much more difficult, it's quite simple and direct: just to copy two files downloaded from a web site into your /home/.opera folder. Not really complicated, right? :D

3. Forecastfox.

As I already said, I use no widgets in Opera. I don't want this kind of thing. About Forecastfox, personally, this is unimportant for me and even consuming. The weather I see it when I wake up and if I want to have some previsions I just go occasionally to a weather web site for some minutes. That's all.

4. Flashblock.
Er, you know AdBlock Plus blocks already the Flash content? :lol: But hey, "Never be annoyed by a Flash animation again! Blocks Flash so it won't get in your way, but if you want to see it, just click on..." (from the Mozilla web page of the extension) This is not the same thing than in Opera? :lol:

About Chrome, like I already said, it is impracticable for me (see the previous posts)

But, ok, it's your choice and I, and nobody I think, have not some problem with that. :wink: :lol:
Last edited by linuxviolin on Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Best browser for Linux?

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linuxviolin wrote: Rather say just: Opera has not what I want...

Opera has not what most people want... :wink:
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Re: Best browser for Linux?

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markcynt wrote:
linuxviolin wrote: Rather say just: Opera has not what I want...

Opera has not what most people want... :wink:
Maybe, although I don't think so, but you know, I always thought that many users/people are (often)... idiot. (ironic and a little joke but... :P)

And it's not because something is popular it's good or better, it's even often the contrary.... :)
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Re: Best browser for Linux?

Post by MALsPa »

Thanks for posting all of that info, linuxviolin. I'm sure that folks who are interested in using Opera web browser will appreciate it. I appreciate it, too.
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Re: Best browser for Linux?

Post by markcynt »

linuxviolin wrote:And it's not because something is popular it's good or better, it's even often the contrary.... :)
Like I said, Opera is a fine browser, but it could be much better if they opened it up.

In it's present state it only appeals to a few.

Take away the extensions and FF would be a joke IMO but the extensions aren't going anywhere.
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Re: Best browser for Linux?

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markcynt wrote:Opera is a fine browser, but it could be much better if they opened it up.
Maybe but not necessarily. When you see the (sorry) state of many open source projects, sometimes I would prefer that there is some enterprise and infrastructure behind them, even if they are not open source. :? :(
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Re: Best browser for Linux?

Post by JonM33 »

MALsPa wrote:I"m sure you're right, JonM33. As always.

But I do give a flying crap about Firefox being open source. That's why they call me "Almost Nobody." :lol:
Hey, I am pulling out facts and statistics whenever I can. Are you? Didn't think so.

I knew you would quote me with that, and that is why I said "almost nobody" as opposed to "nobody". Would you prefer to be grouped in with "nobody" because that's what the rest of the world thinks of Linux.

I used Firefox for 6 years. I didn't care at all that it was open source. I'm not a developer, I don't code sh*t. It's meaningless to me. What I want is a good final product to browse the internet with. That's what 99.9% of Firefox users want too.
MALsPa wrote:Wow, man. Okay, that was partly just a dig when I said, "Because Opera isn't as good." But I think that one of the reasons Opera's popularity is low is because a lot of people like add-ons, and Opera doesn't have them. I know it's a big reason why Opera's not my favorite browser. I know that other people feel the same way.

Whatever. I'm not trying to convince you not to use Opera, It's a great browser -- for you! Not for me.
Opera's not your favorite browser because you are content with Firefox and never gave Opera a chance. That's how people are with products. They will use something until it pisses them off and then they will give something else a chance. That's why people switched from Windows to Mac over the past few years. Windows XP is a huge pile of insecure dog crap where any process can run with full admin rights. Windows Vista had nothing but negative press. What else are people going to do? Switching to Mac was their answer.

Why would you switch if you are swinging on Firefox's balls? It makes no sense for you. To me? I grew so irritated with Firefox's memory leaks and inability to handle a lot of Javascript based websites without the process eating up chunks of CPU time. The only fix for either was to close the browser and re-open it. THAT is the only reason why I looked at other options. On my Windows system it sure wasn't going to be IE8. I don't like anything with Google's name on it or Apple's. What was left? Opera of course! So I gave it a dedicated try for a week and wasn't left disappointed in any way. It functions as I want a browser to function and doesn't have ANY memory leaks or Javascript issues.
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Re: Best browser for Linux?

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JonM33 wrote:Hey, I am pulling out facts and statistics whenever I can.
Why? What's your goal? To convince me that I should start liking Opera more than another browser? Or just to keep arguing?
JonM33 wrote:Opera's not your favorite browser because you are content with Firefox and never gave Opera a chance.
I'm content with Firefox, that part is true.

Opera's not my favorite browser because I don't like it as much. How much of a chance do I need to give it? If a browser doesn't appeal to me, if it doesn't have the things that I want it to have, why should I bother continuing to use it? And for how long? To satisfy who, you or me?

This is my third go-round with Opera, and this time I've actually spent some time with it. The other two times I was turned off by it almost immediately. I've tried lots of other web browsers. I'm always open to trying them. I want to see for myself. I install them and I keep them installed for however long I'm using that same Linux installation. That's normally no less than one year. So Opera isn't going to be removed from my system, just like Chromium and Chrome won't. That's just how I do it. But I don't think I'll be using Opera much.
JonM33 wrote:Why would you switch if you are swinging on Firefox's balls?
I don't know anything about swinging on anyone's balls. Maybe you can tell me about it. :lol:
JonM33 wrote:I grew so irritated with Firefox's memory leaks and inability to handle a lot of Javascript based websites without the process eating up chunks of CPU time. The only fix for either was to close the browser and re-open it. THAT is the only reason why I looked at other options. On my Windows system it sure wasn't going to be IE8. I don't like anything with Google's name on it or Apple's. What was left? Opera of course! So I gave it a dedicated try for a week and wasn't left disappointed in any way. It functions as I want a browser to function and doesn't have ANY memory leaks or Javascript issues.
Good, I'm happy that you've found a browser that you love. I've found a few, too. Opera isn't one of my favorites; there are others that are a better fit for me. Just like Opera's a better fit for you. Okay? :D
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Re: Best browser for Linux?

Post by JonM33 »

MALsPa wrote:Why? What's your goal? To convince me that I should start liking Opera more than another browser? Or just to keep arguing?
I'm not arguing. I'm making points. You were the one that stated that something with 2% market share must not be good. All the Linux users in the world that make up 1.3% of the OS market would beg to differ about such small percentages. :wink:
MALsPa wrote:I'm content with Firefox, that part is true.

Opera's not my favorite browser because I don't like it as much. How much of a chance do I need to give it? If a browser doesn't appeal to me, if it doesn't have the things that I want it to have, why should I bother continuing to use it? And for how long? To satisfy who, you or me?

This is my third go-round with Opera, and this time I've actually spent some time with it. The other two times I was turned off by it almost immediately. I've tried lots of other web browsers. I'm always open to trying them. I want to see for myself. I install them and I keep them installed for however long I'm using that same Linux installation. That's normally no less than one year. So Opera isn't going to be removed from my system, just like Chromium and Chrome won't. That's just how I do it. But I don't think I'll be using Opera much.
The problem is that you won't give it the chance it deserves because you have no problem with your browser of choice: Firefox. Due to that, Opera will never meet the needs you put upon it.
MALsPa wrote:I don't know anything about swinging on anyone's balls. Maybe you can tell me about it. :lol:
It's a figure of speech to say that Firefox owns you.
MALsPa wrote:Good, I'm happy that you've found a browser that you love. I've found a few, too. Opera isn't one of my favorites; there are others that are a better fit for me. Just like Opera's a better fit for you. Okay? :D
Sounds good to me! :wink:
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Re: Best browser for Linux?

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JonM33 wrote:The problem is that you won't give it the chance it deserves
And whose problem is that, exactly? Why is it a problem? Is there a problem? If there WAS a problem, who decides how much of a chance Opera (or any other web browser) deserves to be given on MY computer? Oh, yeah, that would be me! :D
JonM33 wrote:Opera will never meet the needs you put upon it.
Probably true, unless they start offering add-ons! Oh, yeah, I forgot:
JonM33 wrote:Firefox extensions = Opera widgets.
:lol:
JonM33 wrote:Firefox owns you.
I guess Chromium or Google Chrome are part-owners, since I use them almost as much as I use Firefox! Sadly, Opera doesn't own any part of me... :lol:
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Re: Best browser for Linux?

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MALsPa wrote:And whose problem is that, exactly? Why is it a problem? Is there a problem? If there WAS a problem, who decides how much of a chance Opera (or any other web browser) deserves to be given on MY computer? Oh, yeah, that would be me! :D
Quite funny... :lol: :lol: :lol:
MALsPa wrote:Probably true, unless they start offering add-ons!
Add-ons are evil! :evil: (joke but... :P :lol: :mrgreen:)
MALsPa wrote:I guess Chromium or Google Chrome are part-owners, since I use them almost as much as I use Firefox! Sadly, Opera doesn't own any part of me... :lol:
Good for you.

About Chrome, without talk again of its problem with the memory, "The goal now is to release a new stable version of the browser every six weeks — about twice as fast as they currently do, Google says." Constant stream of bugs, yeee! You can read A New Version Of Google Chrome Now Due Every 6 Weeks
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