The house of cards is starting to fall.

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zerozero
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Re: The house of cards is starting to fall.

Post by zerozero » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:46 am

I just saw this now in the feeds and think it's so damn absurd i have to share with you

http://gregdekspeaks.wordpress.com/2010 ... nonical-1/

and the source here:

http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2010/07/28/gnome-census/

Canonical's contribution to GNOME's code 1%; Red Hat's over 16%
Image

[ bliss of ignorance ]

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Carl
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Re: The house of cards is starting to fall.

Post by Carl » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:58 am

zerozero wrote:I just saw this now in the feeds and think it's so damn absurd i have to share with you

http://gregdekspeaks.wordpress.com/2010 ... nonical-1/

and the source here:

http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2010/07/28/gnome-census/

Canonical's contribution to GNOME's code 1%; Red Hat's over 16%
I think thats been common knowledge for a while :? I seem to remember reading about it on the Ubuntu forums (gasp!) :lol:

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MALsPa
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Re: The house of cards is starting to fall.

Post by MALsPa » Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:11 pm

zerozero wrote:I just saw this now in the feeds and think it's so damn absurd i have to share with you

http://gregdekspeaks.wordpress.com/2010 ... nonical-1/

and the source here:

http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2010/07/28/gnome-census/

Canonical's contribution to GNOME's code 1%; Red Hat's over 16%
Since Debian's not on the list, would Debian contributions fall under categories like "Volunteer," "Independent," and "Unknown"? I mean, since "Debian" isn't a company like Canonical is.

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Re: The house of cards is starting to fall.

Post by exploder » Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:19 pm

zerozero thank you for the best laugh I have had in a long time! :D :) :D Canonical's 1% must explain the things that don't work. :) I love it, Canonical contributes 1% to Gnome, contributes almost nothing as far as the kernel, yet I see Ubuntu everything plastered all over every Linux news site on the planet! They should post a link to that blog on OMG Ubuntu! :D

Edit: This might explain why the answer to every bug report is, This is an upstream issue.". :D :) :D :) :D :) :) :D :)

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Re: The house of cards is starting to fall.

Post by exploder » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:48 pm

Here is some more information about Ubuntu's influence.

http://www.happyassassin.net/2010/07/29 ... of-ubuntu/

beansandjeans
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Re: The house of cards is starting to fall.

Post by beansandjeans » Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:26 pm

Not to be too conspiratorial or anything, but isn't Ubuntu funded almost entirely by selling tech-support?

It seems to me that this would be a direct financial disincentive to make everything run too smoothly. Just a thought...

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BubbaBlues
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Re: The house of cards is starting to fall.

Post by BubbaBlues » Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:36 pm

I really don't think Mark Shuttleworth is concerned with making money. I believe he's more interested in being a "big shot".
"I sometimes wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by embeciles who really mean it."
Mark Twain

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Re: The house of cards is starting to fall.

Post by beansandjeans » Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:45 pm

BubbaBlues wrote:I really don't think Mark Shuttleworth is concerned with making money. I believe he's more interested in being a "big shot".
You may be right, and I guess he's pretty rich already. But still, Mint's funding strategy makes more sense to me. The more people like it, the more they'll use it, and funding is generated by the Google search plugin thingie. And if people are really happy with it they'll donate. So there's every incentive to make everything run as smoothly as possible.

But with Ubuntu's approach, if they make the OS *too* perfect and easy and smoothly functioning then nobody will feel the need to buy tech-support, so they'll loose their income source.

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Re: The house of cards is starting to fall.

Post by randomizer » Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:29 am

Canonical contributes alot more than 1% to GNOME. Their little additions just don't go upstream because they don't work right.

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Re: The house of cards is starting to fall.

Post by vincent » Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:28 am

I think Canonical's major contribution is really their marketing. Just ask any desktop Linux user and they'll most likely say that they started with an Ubuntu/Ubuntu-based distro when they were first introduced into the open-source community. How many of us would be using Linux had Ubuntu not existed? Ubuntu has been the driving force in popularising desktop Linux in the past few years, so much so that even some OEM's are trying their hand at offering home PC's pre-installed with...you guessed it, Ubuntu.

While Canonical's 1% contribution may be puny compared to Red Hat's, you have to realise that there is more than one way to contribute to Linux...it's not all about writing code. Spreading the word is a worthy contribution in itself.
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Re: The house of cards is starting to fall.

Post by alpha1 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:42 am

Whatever be it - Ubuntu has brought Linux to more users in one release than any of these Red hats or Slackware etc could in their tenure.
Ubuntu may have bugs, but it gets the job done with respect to hardware recognition and stuff - somethign that a n00b will not be bothered about tinkering and wasting his time - rather than playing game or browsing or watching movie.

And admit it - Mint wouldn't have been as much success as it is right now without Ubuntu.

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Re: The house of cards is starting to fall.

Post by altair4 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:31 am

Ubuntu may have brought more home users to Linux but Red Hat made Linux legitimate. In the enterprise space ( at least in the US ) Red Hat is synonymous with Linux. If someone mentions Novell's SuSE they laugh. And If someone mentions Ubuntu someone at the table will invariably say, gesundheit :wink:
Please add a [SOLVED] at the end of your original subject header if your question has been answered and solved.

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Re: The house of cards is starting to fall.

Post by deleted » Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:10 am

Ubuntu really brought a lot of name recognition to the table. My company used to support only Red Hat (Enterprise) and SUSE (not OpenSUSE) installations of their software. Ubuntu's name recognition got them to support it, too.

Ubuntu also brought Debian into the limelight, at the time I jumped into Linux, Debian had the reputation of being one of the hardest (and most unhelpful) distro around. (I found it an unfounded reputation), but Ubuntu came out as "Debian for the rest of us".

The interesting thing I see now is that I can spot Linux in TV and Movies (I assume to copyrighted images some OS's have) and I can only guess that it's Ubuntu.

-Hinto

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BubbaBlues
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Re: The house of cards is starting to fall.

Post by BubbaBlues » Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:14 am

alpha1 wrote:Whatever be it - Ubuntu has brought Linux to more users in one release than any of these Red hats or Slackware etc could in their tenure.
Ubuntu may have bugs, but it gets the job done with respect to hardware recognition and stuff - somethign that a n00b will not be bothered about tinkering and wasting his time - rather than playing game or browsing or watching movie.

And admit it - Mint wouldn't have been as much success as it is right now without Ubuntu.
That isn't entirely true. A noob isn't going to watch any movies or videos or listen to music until he spends a lot of time searching the forums
to find out why his video or music won't play. Then he'll have to find find out where medibuntu is and how to add it to the sources list and
etc. etc. It takes a while if you're a noob.
"I sometimes wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by embeciles who really mean it."
Mark Twain

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Re: The house of cards is starting to fall.

Post by exploder » Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:55 am

Ubuntu has not brought more home users to Linux, the statistics show that. How can Ubuntu attract more people with all of the hardware regressions in their releases? More realistically, Ubuntu has shifted people using other distributions to using theirs with their massive marketing machine. Lets face it, Windows users are not looking at Linux news sites. Every package that Ubuntu makes available in a ppa repo is major news on every Linux site on the planet! Ubuntu seems to be popular by mass advertising and blowing their own horn until people believe the advertising.

We all know that application updates are possible, the new apps that are available in the ppa repos prove that beyond any doubt, so why are updates not made available through the default repositories? I will tell you why, application updates are not provided because it would take away from the hype and fanfare of the next release. The same is true with kernel and driver updates! You would not anticipate the next release if the one that you are running was working well and your applications were up to date, now would you?

Ubuntu purposely made their default appearance unattractive for a long time, this built up to a huge advertising frenzy when they made the appearance better. Heck, I fell for it! This is how Ubuntu attracts users! This is how everything in Ubuntu works!

Mark Shuttleworth purposely makes Ubuntu easy to build on and redistribute because it further promotes his product! Ideas used in other distributions that are selling points eventually are used in Ubuntu releases. Think about it for a moment, the Mint Software Center was a great idea and now Ubuntu has their own version and they are further developing on the original idea. Ubuntu used the development work that was started in Mint and used Mint as a testbed to test the waters before they used the idea themselves. Ubuntu is now mass marketing the Software Center and people think that is was an original idea!

Ubuntu is a mass marketing machine, eventually when they have convinced the public that they are Linux, they will build releases that are reasonably free of hardware regression and update like the general public would expect. Ubuntu is targeting new users just like they say, they are targeting people that do not know what is possible and what is not possible with technology. Think about it, there are distributions using the same kernel as Ubuntu without the hardware regressions so it is not the fault of the hardware manufactures, the kernel or any other excuse you might hear, it is deliberately being done to build anticipation for the next release and further the marketing goals Ubuntu has.

Dell is quite the marketing machine these days, it is no surprise that they would consider partnering with another marketing machine to sell computers. Dell changes hardware on their machines quite often to get better pricing and reduce costs and raise profits. I have to wonder if Ubuntu's hardware support is influenced by Dell's choice of hardware being used in their Ubuntu offerings. Also, all the news about Dell dropping Ubuntu created a lot of press, now they are suddenly adding more models. I think that all of this commotion was created for free advertising and again, we all fell for it!

We can all see Ubuntu's statistics for ourselves as far as their contributions go, their push to try and get other projects to release to their schedule has not worked. Ubuntu wants all of the major projects to release when they do to further their influence on how people view Ubuntu, not how people view Linux in general. Ubuntu wants to be able to say how they made it all come together. The reality is that different projects progress at different rates but again this would give them a huge marketing advantage.

Currently Ubuntu is using the same planned obsolescence approach used by Microsoft to get people to move on to their next release and guess what, it is working! It is hard not to fall for all of the Ubuntu marketing because they have mastered it like no other distribution in history has but I think when all of the dust settles people will see things for what they really are. I use PCLinuxOS 2010 as an example a lot, the reason is that they seem to be one of the very few distributions that try to do things the way they should be done. If the same principals PCLinuxOS uses were applied to a Debian base then Ubuntu marketing machine would fizzle out, quality would prevail and Linux would advance and we would see Linux being pre-installed on computers the common place.

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Re: The house of cards is starting to fall.

Post by libssd » Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:36 pm

Sheesh, what a bunch of over-analysis. I have no idea what ideas pass through Mark Shuttleworth's mind, but many of you seem to know his innermost thoughts. He ponied up $10 million of his own money (a drop in the bucket) to establish Canonical. I am thankful that Shuttleworth/Canonical have done so much to popularize Linux, and to reduce the popular perception that "Linux is only for geeks" (although I think they have oversold this somewhat, given the number of newbies who end up with inoperable machines after following the download/install instructions that provide almost no warnings of possible risks).

From my perspective, Ubuntu (despite a name that sounds weird to most of the population) is the first release of Linux that is "for the rest of us." I looked briefly at Mint 9, and found it too restrictive; the Mint people have locked down some things in ways that require more effort to bypass than in Ubuntu, so I'm sticking with Lucid Lynx. But the fact is that all Linux distros combined are but a drop in the bucket of the desktop market, and that is a difficult obstacle to overcome.

No software is perfect or bug free. If you're not a coder and want to contribute, http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/ is one place to do so.

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Re: The house of cards is starting to fall.

Post by deleted » Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:03 pm

libssd wrote: I looked briefly at Mint 9, and found it too restrictive; the Mint people have locked down some things in ways that require more effort to bypass than in Ubuntu, so I'm sticking with Lucid Lynx.
Just curious about what was locked down/more restrictive.

-Hinto

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Re: The house of cards is starting to fall.

Post by exploder » Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:13 pm

No software is perfect or bug free. If you're not a coder and want to contribute, http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/ is one place to do so.
I have been through my share of Ubuntu development cycles, reported bugs like so many have with no results. I post work arounds and fixes whenever I find them and I spend hours, days looking for things to resolve issues. The whole point is that fixes never make it into the main repos and releases are nearly abandoned in favor of the next one. If you have a better explanation for the poor quality of Ubuntu final releases I would love to hear it. No software is perfect, that's a fact but horrible graphics in at least the last three releases in unbelievable!

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Re: The house of cards is starting to fall.

Post by exploder » Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:14 pm

Have a look at how Ubuntu is viewed by other distributions.

http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/ubu ... mmunity%29

Interesting!

Edit: Here is another point of view.

http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastructur ... 2835OSCYUB

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MALsPa
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Re: The house of cards is starting to fall.

Post by MALsPa » Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:17 pm

Shuttleworth, "Tribalism is the enemy within."

http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/439

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