Linux is Not Windows

Chat about Linux in general
borg101
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby borg101 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:35 pm

Spearmint2 wrote:Net Nanny here, LOL.

borg101 wrote: Now, I could obstain from giving them any of my data....in fact, Google gives you the ability to delete any and all data with a few clicks. But why would I obstain?


Obstain

To attempt to hook up with a girl, only to have her turn you down and sleep on your couch. A denial of advances. A refusal to accept a sexual invitation.


Abstain
verb (used without object)
1.
to hold oneself back voluntarily, especially from something regarded as improper or unhealthy (usually followed by from):
to abstain from eating meat.
2.
to refrain from casting one's vote:
a referendum in which two delegates abstained.


I commend you on your chastity. ;)


And I commend you for your all but unnecessary response. Please, proceed to talk about the rules regarding beginning sentences with prepositions.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby borg101 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:36 pm

InkKnife wrote:I don't mind a site using the info I enter into that site but I absolutely reject the idea that visiting Google or Facebook gives them the right to track me other places. I will turn off my ad blockers on sites I like and trust, like this one, but my tracking cookie killer gets turned off for no one, ever, full stop.
Tracking is a fundamentally hostile act, see stalking laws for cultural context. If someone in real life tryed to track me they would end up being confronted by me in a very hostile way. No one has the right to stalk no matter if it is Google or that pervert living in the flat across the street.


Fair enough.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby ArtGirl » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:18 pm

InkKnife wrote:I don't mind a site using the info I enter into that site but I absolutely reject the idea that visiting Google or Facebook gives them the right to track me other places. I will turn off my ad blockers on sites I like and trust, like this one, but my tracking cookie killer gets turned off for no one, ever, full stop.
Tracking is a fundamentally hostile act, see stalking laws for cultural context. If someone in real life tryed to track me they would end up being confronted by me in a very hostile way. No one has the right to stalk no matter if it is Google or that pervert living in the flat across the street.


Well said :)
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby ArtGirl » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:27 pm

Being new to Linux, I found this thread through having concerns about a cross-platform program I'm using (myself, solely on Linux), which is deliberately bringing in metadata collection soon, and wanted to ask further. I didn't make this big journey, against metadata and invasion of privacy, to have that happen again. Surely this kind of thing is against Linux ethics?
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby Moem » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:21 am

ArtGirl wrote:I found this thread through having concerns about a cross-platform program I'm using (myself, solely on Linux), which is deliberately bringing in metadata collection soon (...) Surely this kind of thing is against Linux ethics?

I'd think so, but then, just because a program is (also) available for Linux, that doesn't mean the author supports Linux ethics.
Can you tell us which program you are talking about? Maybe we can help you find a suitable replacement.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby ArtGirl » Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:13 am

Moem wrote:
ArtGirl wrote:I found this thread through having concerns about a cross-platform program I'm using (myself, solely on Linux), which is deliberately bringing in metadata collection soon (...) Surely this kind of thing is against Linux ethics?

I'd think so, but then, just because a program is (also) available for Linux, that doesn't mean the author supports Linux ethics.
Can you tell us which program you are talking about? Maybe we can help you find a suitable replacement.


Thanks for your post, Moem, and kind of you to offer about a possible solution. The program is krita, and here's the metadata details: https://akapust1n.wordpress.com. I've read around a bit and this could be similar to the Canonical issues? ... saying there's no personal identifying, but they're still taking data. The vision statement went a bit sour and a different direction recently, and the latest update is for Windows only, too. I've asked as neutrally as possible today about when the metadata-collecting releases are due out. EDIT: just received a reply saying they don't know when it'll come in, there'll be anonymity and the ability to opt out (although the earlier link hadn't detailed that) and linking me to this: https://community.kde.org/Policies/Telemetry_Policy. I've just searched a bit more myself and it looks like the telemetry will be included in Krita 4.0 and not in any 3.2 versions.

It's the only big painting program on Linux (for professional use, too) ... Mypaint is a simple alternative, and gimp with the painter plugin is useable but too complex for me. I can set short cuts as I need in krita, and just separate using it for art and not be otherwise involved further. I'm not happy with any metadata direction, and can't see the real need for it.

EDIT (14 December): https://krita.org/en/item/krita-development-sprint-2017/. The telemetry is still intended, but not ready yet, so any appimages at this point shouldn't have it in. Somebody wants to do a thesis on how Krita works ... yay :-( ... so I imagine it'll come in at some point.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby Moem » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:08 pm

Artgirl, would it be possible for you to stick with the telemetry-free version? Krita doesn't need or use internet access, does it? So I don't think it would be insecure to just keep using the current version.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby aes2011 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:51 pm

Moem wrote:I don't care for using the terminal but luckily I hardly ever need to. It's not more efficient if you haven't even the vaguest idea of what to do.

I'll probably always be a GUI kind of Linux user and I'm fine with that; if someone gives me commands that I need to copypaste in order to accomplish something I want done, then that's fine too, but I don't feel the need to learn those commands myself.

I don't feel that I'm missing out on anything. My computer works just fine, exactly the way I want it to. To each their own!
Re.
if someone gives me commands that I need to copypaste in order to accomplish something I want done, then that's fine too, but I don't feel the need to learn those commands myself.
the commands need to be from someone trustworthy. There are commands that can ruin one's system. Also, although a bit old, it's still applicable: http://www.h-online.com/security/servic ... 42855.html.

There maybe (online) services to parse commands and to let users know what they mean/do.

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby davidmedin » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:36 am

The article perpetuates the myth that Linux is secure by default and Windows isn't.

This might be true from the days of Windows 98 but it's just simply not true nowadays.

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby Spearmint2 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:11 pm

davidmedin wrote:The article perpetuates the myth that Linux is secure by default and Windows isn't.

This might be true from the days of Windows 98 but it's just simply not true nowadays.


What do you mean?! Windows isn't even safe from Windows updates. Have you perused some Windows based forums following the debacle of changed driver files on W10 computers that are now causing the users all sorts of problems till they realize they must reinstall their original manufacturer driver files just to get things back to some sort of normal operation?
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby thx-1138 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:48 pm

davidmedin wrote:The article perpetuates the myth that Linux is secure by default and Windows isn't.
This might be true from the days of Windows 98 but it's just simply not true nowadays.

Well, this made me wanna laugh, but others maybe WannaCry...

Btw davidmedin, please remind me again what you were saying in another thread...
...Windows actually started to get half-way decent when SP2 for XP was released and improved again (arguably perfected) in Windows 7.

Much perfection, very security...

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby davidmedin » Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:07 am

Spearmint2 wrote:
It makes me laugh when I hear the kneejerk anti-Windows reactions from people who don't even use Windows or understand how it works.
Are you really, seriously suggesting that Linux hasn't had any major security flaws over the last couple of years?
If so ... go ahead and I will laugh heartily and post the relevant links. But I don't believe you are so naive.


Windows has a lot going for it, but also a lot against it. I have a computer here for family use,it has W7 on it for them, but ONLY in a virtual box. If W7 Restore fails to recover from whatever someone corrupted it with, there's still the "snapshot" I can use quickly to restore it. They are only allowed credit card purchases while using the linux though. So having it setup this way allows them immediate access to both systems. It's disingenuous to assume people here know little about windows, an empty argument. I have 37,000 of my help on windows posts at CNETwhich prove otherwise.



Here's a good example of someone who doesn't know how to use Windows. If you can't lock it down to prevent family members 'corrupting' Windows then you really don't qualify to be making sweeping statements about which OS is 'better'.

I understand the preference for Linux and have been using it as a server OS (CLI only) for a few years, but on the desktop it is in no way going to come close to replacing Windows, MacOS or even Google's Chrome in the foreseeable future.

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby aes2011 » Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:17 am

davidmedin wrote:... I understand the preference for Linux and have been using it as a server OS (CLI only) for a few years, but on the desktop it is in no way going to come close to replacing Windows, MacOS or even Google's Chrome in the foreseeable future.

Okay, you win.

Now how about helping people who have posted their problems here? Thanks in anticipation.

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby davidmedin » Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:41 am

Ok sure :lol:

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby Spearmint2 » Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:44 pm

davidmedin wrote:
Spearmint2 wrote:
It makes me laugh when I hear the kneejerk anti-Windows reactions from people who don't even use Windows or understand how it works.
Are you really, seriously suggesting that Linux hasn't had any major security flaws over the last couple of years?
If so ... go ahead and I will laugh heartily and post the relevant links. But I don't believe you are so naive.


Windows has a lot going for it, but also a lot against it. I have a computer here for family use,it has W7 on it for them, but ONLY in a virtual box. If W7 Restore fails to recover from whatever someone corrupted it with, there's still the "snapshot" I can use quickly to restore it. They are only allowed credit card purchases while using the linux though. So having it setup this way allows them immediate access to both systems. It's disingenuous to assume people here know little about windows, an empty argument. I have 37,000 of my help on windows posts at CNETwhich prove otherwise.


Here's a good example of someone who doesn't know how to use Windows. If you can't lock it down to prevent family members 'corrupting' Windows then you really don't qualify to be making sweeping statements about which OS is 'better'. I understand the preference for Linux and have been using it as a server OS (CLI only) for a few years, but on the desktop it is in no way going to come close to replacing Windows, MacOS or even Google's Chrome in the foreseeable future.


Who then am I to say anything against windows, since I believe you should embrace it and use it all the time. In fact, you should quit using Linux Mint, just on general principle. I wouldn't want you to be considered hypocritical by other windows users. Consider the social embarrassment that might cause for you. I wish you all that windows has to offer you in the most heart felt way.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby Schultz » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:00 pm

Here's the first three paragraphs of an article I have linked to a few times here on Mint's forums for newbies who are antsy about not using AVs and the like. I won't comment on it because it really says it all with no need for explanation.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/mint-18-3-the-best-linux-desktop-takes-big-steps-forward/

I run many operating systems every day, from macOS, to Windows 7 and 10, to more Linux desktop distributions than you can shake a stick at. And, once more, as a power-user's power user, I've found the latest version of Linux Mint to be the best of the best.

Why? Let's start with the basics. MacOS has been shown to have the worst bug I've ever seen in an operating system: The macOS High Sierra security hole that lets anyone get full administrative control. Windows, old and new, continues to have multiple security bugs every lousy month. Linux? Sure, it has security problems. How many of these bugs have had serious desktop impacts? Let me see now. None. Yes, that would be zero.

Oh, and by the way, in using Linux desktops for over 25 years now, I have never needed to use an anti-virus program because, for all practical purposes, there are no Linux viruses. Yes, I know you've read stories saying they exist. And, they do, but you must actively try to infect your system to get them.

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby Moem » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:59 pm

Schultz wrote:Here's the first three paragraphs of an article I have linked to a few times here on Mint's forums for newbies who are antsy about not using AVs and the like.

Thank you for getting the thread back on topic, and I like that article too. It's pretty convincing.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby Arch_Enemy » Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:29 pm

Schultz wrote:Here's the first three paragraphs of an article I have linked to a few times here on Mint's forums for newbies who are antsy about not using AVs and the like. I won't comment on it because it really says it all with no need for explanation.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/mint-18-3-the-best-linux-desktop-takes-big-steps-forward/

I run many operating systems every day, from macOS, to Windows 7 and 10, to more Linux desktop distributions than you can shake a stick at. And, once more, as a power-user's power user, I've found the latest version of Linux Mint to be the best of the best.

Why? Let's start with the basics. MacOS has been shown to have the worst bug I've ever seen in an operating system: The macOS High Sierra security hole that lets anyone get full administrative control. Windows, old and new, continues to have multiple security bugs every lousy month. Linux? Sure, it has security problems. How many of these bugs have had serious desktop impacts? Let me see now. None. Yes, that would be zero.

Oh, and by the way, in using Linux desktops for over 25 years now, I have never needed to use an anti-virus program because, for all practical purposes, there are no Linux viruses. Yes, I know you've read stories saying they exist. And, they do, but you must actively try to infect your system to get them.


Nice one.

One caveat, however: I was an ATi maniac. Had ATi cards forever. nVidia and Diamond were strange beasts meant for aliens from Alpha Centauri. That is, until I could not get one ATi card to go into full accelerated graphics. I tried everything...latest driver, older driver, etc. I actually got it to go to full acceleration..once. Next time I booted it was gone.

I asked my then guitarplayer who is also a bit on the geeky side if he had a nVidia card he didn't want, and I got a $200 car for $75. I installed it and was looking forward to the joy I was going to have to get IT working. Fearfully I pressed the power button and waited for the inevitable "kernel panic" or "X cannot start..." screen to pop up. Instead I was greeted by a full screen NVIDIA logo and all was right with the world.

Then I discovered I was using nouveau, which in itself it OK, but I downloaded the latest driver from nVidia (they still maintain Linux drivers quite avidly) and spent about 30 minutes installing and configuring, and after a reboot had full accelerated graphics. A couple times I had an issue getting the driver to work on different Mint distributions, but the new Driver feature licks that quite well. Never looked at ATi again. Even in Windows their drivers have become sketchy.
$0.02+a grain of salt...


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