Linux is Not Windows

Chat about Linux in general
Nick_Djinn
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by Nick_Djinn »

As interesting as that is, I dont want to use an OS that is based on shoddy translations from Chinese....I suspect this OS will be used to trick people into thinking they are buying a windows OS by copying the look and feel.....that is not what I am interested in at all. However, if they gain better compatibility with the popular programs by finding a better way to integrate wine....well, I just came up with that idea on my own two days ago for mint.


I am going to stick with mint.

silvertop
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by silvertop »

I think you need more than an article to get used to Linux. I have never in my life even considered using Linux until tonite. I have an old PC (1.86 gz Intel, 2gigs ram) that is expendable so I removed windows XP and loaded Ubuntu 10.04 and was totally lost as the system crashed with a BSD which I have not seen since windows 98 days. So I searched the web and discovered that I should be loading Mint as it is more user friendly and is easier to install. OK I downloaded Mint 8 (32 bit and 64 bit versions). The 64 bit version will not install at all but I did manage to install the 32 bit version. Great stuff so what do you do now as there is no clue on the mint desktop as to what one can do with it. By fooling around with all the options and clicking on help 25 times I managed to get Firefox running on the desktop and went to the mint website after which I downloaded mint 9 (both 32 bit and 64 bit). Went to burn the iso file to a CD and crash, crash, crash. I am ready to give up and go back to my windows 7 main machine. Surely there is more to linux than what I have discovered. Unless as a newbe in linux I am expecting too much. Again I say you need more than an article to use and stay with linux

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Fred
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by Fred »

silvertop,

Try to keep some perspective. The first time you saw/used Windows you had to install it yourself, right? Then what did you do with it the first time it booted up and you saw the desktop for the first time. How did that first experience go for you? :-)

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Kaye
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by Kaye »

Also, I couldn't help but think.. It really took you that long to figure out how to click "Menu" then click "Firefox"?

I'm not trying to be disparaging, I'm just wondering how you could've possibly been confused about how to start a program that is clearly listed in the menu of applications.
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Nick_Djinn
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by Nick_Djinn »

Kaye wrote:Also, I couldn't help but think.. It really took you that long to figure out how to click "Menu" then click "Firefox"?

I'm not trying to be disparaging, I'm just wondering how you could've possibly been confused about how to start a program that is clearly listed in the menu of applications.

Hmmm. Well, its very possible that there is something wrong with his installation or his hardware. Or he means that he had to figure out how to get the wireless card drivers up and working to use firefox....or he is a troll, but I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt.


Maybe he never used to start menu to launch a program in windows? He only has used the icons on his desktop?


Or maybe a linux geek is making fun of us.....



I think that a good standard for ease of use is whether someone who has a few years experience with windows can pretty much figure out ho to get online and check their email or use messenger or launch open office to write a college essay or can find a way to get their documents to print within 24 hours of installing it....assuming they were able to do these things in windows.

If you cant figure out how to launch a program from the start menu in windows, then I think that perhaps crosses the line of what an acceptable learning curve should be.

silvertop
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by silvertop »

Kaye wrote:Also, I couldn't help but think.. It really took you that long to figure out how to click "Menu" then click "Firefox"?

I'm not trying to be disparaging, I'm just wondering how you could've possibly been confused about how to start a program that is clearly listed in the menu of applications.

There was no menu option available. I happened to accidently open firefox when I selected 'help'. Since last night I went on my main PC and downloaded a fresh copy of the Mint DVD (32bit & 64 bit) and will give it another try tonight. Now it could be that the PC I am installing it on is defective. It is an older Intel duo E2168 with 1 2gig RAM stick. It did run Windows XP very well but it is rather slow [1.8 ghz]. Its experiences like this that turn one off when an install does not work.

FedoraRefugee
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by FedoraRefugee »

Post deleted by poster due to silvertop responding below
Last edited by FedoraRefugee on Thu May 20, 2010 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by FedoraRefugee »

silvertop wrote:
Kaye wrote:Also, I couldn't help but think.. It really took you that long to figure out how to click "Menu" then click "Firefox"?

I'm not trying to be disparaging, I'm just wondering how you could've possibly been confused about how to start a program that is clearly listed in the menu of applications.

There was no menu option available. I happened to accidently open firefox when I selected 'help'. Since last night I went on my main PC and downloaded a fresh copy of the Mint DVD (32bit & 64 bit) and will give it another try tonight. Now it could be that the PC I am installing it on is defective. It is an older Intel duo E2168 with 1 2gig RAM stick. It did run Windows XP very well but it is rather slow [1.8 ghz]. Its experiences like this that turn one off when an install does not work.
Silvertop, you posted this while I was writing my previous post. This is a good sign! I posted my thoughts anyway, (I deleted the post as it was irrelevant now that Silvertop has responded back to this thread!) but you have shown us here that you probably are legit. Now maybe we can help you out. :D

Is this processor capable of 64 bit? I am not going to bother googling it, you can do that if you do not know. Even if it is, let's forget the 64 bit thing for now. Just use the 32 bit version. It will save some hassle and if you end up liking Linux you can install a 64 bit distro later.

Silvertop, there is a "start" menu in Linux, just like in Windows, with ALL of the programs listed. Firefox included. This is why we are expressing our disbelief of this. If you do not have a start menu then something is bad wrong!

But let me tell you this, you are probably going to be turned off quite a bit until you get over the fact that Linux is not trying to gain your market share. Linux is like the Wild West. You are basically on your own. It is free to use, and it can do almost anything you will need to do, but no one is going to hold your hand. If you are not ready to learn how to use this OS then stop right now and save yourself the aggravation! Give yourself a reality check, why do YOU want to use Linux? Are you ready to shut your mouth and open your mind? Things are not going to be easy at first, I am sure you will be turned off quite often. Listen close, that is NOT our problem! It is YOURS! We are here to help, but you have to want to do this!
Last edited by FedoraRefugee on Thu May 20, 2010 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

silvertop
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by silvertop »

Thanks for the confidence vote. The Intel Duo E2168 is a 64 bit capable CPU. It has a 1meg L2 cache and can be overclocked, with different cooling, to 3.3 ghz. Its a discontinued chip and can be purchased for very cheep. I gave up on the 64bit mint install and stuck with the 32bit. One thing that bugs me is that during the install there was an brief 'error' message while reading the install CD I had burned with mint. Today I am going to buy a new DVD burner, replace the present one and start the mint 9 install from scratch. But I also was not expecting all this attention from this board on my problems. I wrote on this board in total frustration after spending most of the evening on installing linux, both the ubuntu 10 and mint 8. If you are interested I will report on my progress after tonight's install.

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by FedoraRefugee »

silvertop wrote:Thanks for the confidence vote. The Intel Duo E2168 is a 64 bit capable CPU. It has a 1meg L2 cache and can be overclocked, with different cooling, to 3.3 ghz. Its a discontinued chip and can be purchased for very cheep. I gave up on the 64bit mint install and stuck with the 32bit. One thing that bugs me is that during the install there was an brief 'error' message while reading the install CD I had burned with mint. Today I am going to buy a new DVD burner, replace the present one and start the mint 9 install from scratch. But I also was not expecting all this attention from this board on my problems. I wrote on this board in total frustration after spending most of the evening on installing linux, both the ubuntu 10 and mint 8. If you are interested I will report on my progress after tonight's install.
Thank you. We are interested! It sounds like you might of had a corrupt install. Sometimes things can mostly work but they are buggy. I think buying a new burner is a good bet. Also, burn the ISO on the slowest speed you can. Hopefully tonight's install will go better for you.

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Aging Technogeek
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by Aging Technogeek »

I have just been reading the recent posts to this topic, and I would like to remind some of the newer members posting comments that the original article everyone is referring to is 4 years old . Check the copyright date at the end of the page.

Many of the points under criticism in recent posts have long since ceased to be valid arguments for or against Linux. This is, in my opinion, one of Linux' great strengths. Unlike Windows, where 4 year old topics can still be current, Linux moves fast. 4 years in Linux is several generations. A lot of evolution has occurred in the 16 months since I started using Linux full time. I can only imagine how much Linux has changed since 2006.

Just thought I'd bring this point up since some of the recent posts read as if they think the original article is current.
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scorp123
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by scorp123 »

SallyK wrote:The difference is that a GUI is discoverable.
So is the command line. Or how do you think we learned it?? We were born and simply knew everything about the command line?? Nope. We discovered it. And last but not least: there is a manual you know?

Code: Select all

man name-of-command-here
... will print out everything you ever wanted to know about a command and its arguments.

Don't remember what command did what? There is a search function too:

Code: Select all

apropos name-of-topic
The rest is explained here:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p= ... stcount=11
SallyK wrote: If you forget exactly which menu something is in, you can find it.
And why do you assume that this isn't the case with the command line? Do you really think I know all commands and their syntax by heart?? Nope. I forget most of them. But that's why we have a manual, so I simply lookup what I need to know. That's in fact the only command I really bothered to learn by heart: man ... to call the manual. The rest is basic reading skills. :D
SallyK wrote: If the interface changes, you can look around and work out what has changed.
And on the command line you simply take a look at the manual again :D
SallyK wrote: If you forget a text command, you're stuck.
Happens all the time to me. Takes like 10 seconds to resolve:

Code: Select all

 man name-of-command
SallyK wrote: but you need to know that to start with
Like a real computer beginner won't need to be taught what a mouse is, what a menu does, and how to close and open programs? I have seen that with the parents of my wife. They are both way beyond 70 and as total complete "noobs" as you could ever imagine. They needed to learn everything from scratch. How to move a mouse, the difference between a left-click and a right-click, what the purpose of that wheel in the middle is, and and and and ... There is always a learning curve.
SallyK wrote: They don't need to retain so much knowledge just to use everyday functions.
And that's where you are wrong. If you really are a true beginner then it doesn't matter. Then even something trivial (for us here) such as "how do I move the mouse??" needs to be learned and remembered.

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by Kaye »

scorp123,

+1. Great response :)
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Nick_Djinn
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by Nick_Djinn »

Aging Technogeek wrote:I have just been reading the recent posts to this topic, and I would like to remind some of the newer members posting comments that the original article everyone is referring to is 4 years old . Check the copyright date at the end of the page.

Many of the points under criticism in recent posts have long since ceased to be valid arguments for or against Linux. This is, in my opinion, one of Linux' great strengths. Unlike Windows, where 4 year old topics can still be current, Linux moves fast. 4 years in Linux is several generations. A lot of evolution has occurred in the 16 months since I started using Linux full time. I can only imagine how much Linux has changed since 2006.

Just thought I'd bring this point up since some of the recent posts read as if they think the original article is current.

Good points.

yes, Linux is no longer the OS by hackers for hackers anymore, and I would like to personally thank Ubuntu and Mint for leading the way....its not flawless but for me its gotten to the point where it can do everything I need it to and without all the viruses and spyware/malware I was getting on windows.



And for the guy who had problems installing....I am sorry to hear about that. I would suggest reinstalling factory settings even if you have not changed anything....this might address any problems in the disk.

The Ubuntu community is really helpful and people are almost always on hand to help you out....mint users can also use the Ubuntu forums. This forum is great also despite being smaller.

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by FedoraRefugee »

Nick_Djinn wrote:Good points.

yes, Linux is no longer the OS by hackers for hackers anymore, and I would like to personally thank Ubuntu and Mint for leading the way....its not flawless but for me its gotten to the point where it can do everything I need it to and without all the viruses and spyware/malware I was getting on windows.



And for the guy who had problems installing....I am sorry to hear about that. I would suggest reinstalling factory settings even if you have not changed anything....this might address any problems in the disk.

The Ubuntu community is really helpful and people are almost always on hand to help you out....mint users can also use the Ubuntu forums. This forum is great also despite being smaller.
Is there another Ubuntu forum somewhere that I don't know about? :?

Linux was actually much simpler to use about 5 years ago! For the last couple years we have been going through a bad spot where new ways of doing things are creating many bugs and unwanted side effects. If you have the right hardware you luck out and you do not have to mess with anything anyomre. But...If you have the wrong hardware? It has become a nightmare to try and fix things. It used to be you would simply edit a text file like xorg.conf, but today it is a strange mix of voodoo and blank looks and empty responses from people who have no clue.

As far as spyware/malware, it is not a problem on Vista/7 unless you stray from the default settings. You want to fix it on XP? Create a separate administrator account and only run as a user. It is a PITA to install and remove programs, but how often do you do this? Compared to the fact that it will keep you safe it is a small price to pay! Linux wins the top prize here though, with the separate root account.

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by scorp123 »

FedoraRefugee wrote: Is there another Ubuntu forum somewhere that I don't know about? :?
If you think that the Ubuntu forum isn't helpful then apparently you must be asking your questions the wrong way ... ? :D

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by FedoraRefugee »

scorp123 wrote:
FedoraRefugee wrote: Is there another Ubuntu forum somewhere that I don't know about? :?
If you think that the Ubuntu forum isn't helpful then apparently you must be asking your questions the wrong way ... ? :D
Either that or they are locking them as fast as I can post. Who knows? Who cares! :D

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by MALsPa »

Nick_Djinn wrote:The Ubuntu community is really helpful and people are almost always on hand to help you out....mint users can also use the Ubuntu forums. This forum is great also despite being smaller.
I've found the Ubuntu forums to be helpful and friendly, too. Occasionally, I've posted questions that never got answered. To me, the best part of those forums is that if you have a problem, with either Ubuntu or Mint, you can do a quick search and usually someone at the Ubuntu forums has already discussed it. At least that's been my experience. Often it's better for me to go the Ubuntu forums to find solutions for Mint issues than it is to come to the Mint forums. Just seems like you have so many more users over there, much better chance that someone else has seen the same thing you're seeing.

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by scorp123 »

FedoraRefugee wrote: Either that or they are locking them as fast as I can post.
Well, if they are locking your threads then you are definitely doing something wrong ... Maybe you should work on your style? Trust me, I know what I am speaking of .... ask the others here, they know me too well --- hehehehe :twisted:

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by scorp123 »

MALsPa wrote: Just seems like you have so many more users over there ...
Oh yes!! Definitely. They have many more admins and forum mods too. I found the Ubuntu forums to be quite comfortable and pleasing place in the past 2.5 years since my departure from here :D

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