Linux is Not Windows

Chat about Linux in general
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Tatwi
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby Tatwi » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:58 pm

dee. wrote:
ElectricRider wrote: There have been lots of examples of companies taking BSD and making a proprietary OS out of it - so far, only Apple has been succesful, and they had to buthcer BSD quite a bit, change the kernel and everything.


The Playstation 3 OS is a whopping success for a BSD based operating system. The PS4 will also be based on BSD.

You're right though, BSD is great for companies because they take it for free and do what they want with it, never having to share their changes with anyone else. I think it's safe to say those are the only reasons why companies such as Sony choose BSD over Linux or QNX. When you're looking make a nice walled garden to maximize profits, nothing beats BSD!

Sucks that some companies have no problems making billions off open source without giving anything back to the community, while MANY other companies actively employ people to work in the open source community. Many companies make donations of time, resources, hardware, and cash to the open source communities. Other companies use BSD.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby dinuxlebian » Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:12 pm

Man oh man, don't mean to be a bore, but neither Ubuntu nor Mint is "human", as Ubuntu likes to advertise itself.. Linux is way behind in the area of ease of usability... Wake up Linux.. I'm set to switch to Linux now and that's why I'm posting here but, I honestly wouldn't recommend it to 95% of the people I know.. And no matter how you look at it that's not a good thing, for Linux.

It's on it's way: with it's own projects such as this particular distro and Ubuntu, Android and ChromeOS (the world's most easy to use Linux based OS IMHO) but it's got a looong way to go..


TL;DR And even though Linux is NOT Windows, Linux isn't even OS X.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby dee. » Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:21 am

dinuxlebian wrote:Man oh man, don't mean to be a bore, but neither Ubuntu nor Mint is "human", as Ubuntu likes to advertise itself.. Linux is way behind in the area of ease of usability...


How do you mean? I find most Linux DE's to be just as easy to use as Windows - if not easier in some aspects.

Explain.

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby Crewp » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:57 am

I do not agree, Ubuntu, Linux Mint, and a few other distro's are very easy to use.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby monkeyboy » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:27 am

dinuxlebian wrote:Man oh man, don't mean to be a bore, but neither Ubuntu nor Mint is "human", as Ubuntu likes to advertise itself.. Linux is way behind in the area of ease of usability... Wake up Linux.. I'm set to switch to Linux now and that's why I'm posting here but, I honestly wouldn't recommend it to 95% of the people I know.. And no matter how you look at it that's not a good thing, for Linux.

It's on it's way: with it's own projects such as this particular distro and Ubuntu, Android and ChromeOS (the world's most easy to use Linux based OS IMHO) but it's got a looong way to go..


TL;DR And even though Linux is NOT Windows, Linux isn't even OS X.


Its very much about familiarity for some folks, they often find Linux is just as easy to use as any other OS once they learn the ropes.
If you don't like it, make something better
If you can't make something better, adapt
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby thestoryiheard » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:07 pm

I like the article. It was written by a man/woman, who knows what he/she is talking about.

Lego story section... My face was like - :D

In my opinion, you can recommend Linux (some distros) for people, who don't do any specific job on Windows. And of course, I think that if you will try to install Linux for user who even can't mess with Windows basics you must do some pre-configuration before give it to end user.

And thanks to the specialist, who taught me FreeBSD/Nets/Security I know - you can just buy any PC/notebook/whatever and run Linux on it. It is another type of thinking. You have to choose a hardware for a software, not vice versa. You don't buy a server with whatever hardware inside, because you want that that server runs smoothly for a long time. So why we so careless about your own desktop?

I am new at Linux, and I mess with some problems. But I know that you can't compare the hole idea of Linux with small problems that you personally have.

Windows works on the most hardware. Because of monopoly. And of course, nobody will tell you that someday you will mess with BIG PROBLEMS, because of bad written software, backdoors and of course, you need to install antivirus for your system. Linux runs on some type of software, and of course you might have some problems with it, but in the end you will get safe and stable OS.

Everything above is just my opinion.

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby Aristotelian » Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:04 am

I just had the unfortunate experience of trying to reinstall Windows XP on my old computer after running LUbuntu on it for the last two years (I am donating it to a nonprofit that uses Windows). It just reminds me how much Windows SUCKS. Had to download every driver individually... Then I couldn't install anything without Service Pack 1...which I could not access without updating IE...but the IE install failed because it requires SP 1. I have a feeling MS is just making things difficult to try to get consumers to buy a Windows 7 license. But I bought XP with this computer, the computer is still running. Took me about 4 hours over two nights to get it functional. Linux would have been up and running in 20 minutes.

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby tek_heretik » Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:06 pm

Aristotelian wrote:I just had the unfortunate experience of trying to reinstall Windows XP on my old computer after running LUbuntu on it for the last two years (I am donating it to a nonprofit that uses Windows). It just reminds me how much Windows SUCKS. Had to download every driver individually... Then I couldn't install anything without Service Pack 1...which I could not access without updating IE...but the IE install failed because it requires SP 1. I have a feeling MS is just making things difficult to try to get consumers to buy a Windows 7 license. But I bought XP with this computer, the computer is still running. Took me about 4 hours over two nights to get it functional. Linux would have been up and running in 20 minutes.


Although I totally agree and I feel your pain, XPoopoo (as I like to call it) has reached the end of life, and yeah, the scam to force upgrades (IMO) is real, MS are total doosh-sacks, lol, replace Internet Exploder with Firefox? Love Mint but because it has spyware friendly (not saying Mint spies but I can't use it knowing) Ubuntu under the hood, I moved on to SolydK, great distro.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby DarkCerberus » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:56 pm

tek_heretik wrote:
Aristotelian wrote:I just had the unfortunate experience of trying to reinstall Windows XP on my old computer after running LUbuntu on it for the last two years (I am donating it to a nonprofit that uses Windows). It just reminds me how much Windows SUCKS. Had to download every driver individually... Then I couldn't install anything without Service Pack 1...which I could not access without updating IE...but the IE install failed because it requires SP 1. I have a feeling MS is just making things difficult to try to get consumers to buy a Windows 7 license. But I bought XP with this computer, the computer is still running. Took me about 4 hours over two nights to get it functional. Linux would have been up and running in 20 minutes.


Although I totally agree and I feel your pain, XPoopoo (as I like to call it) has reached the end of life, and yeah, the scam to force upgrades (IMO) is real, MS are total doosh-sacks, lol, replace Internet Exploder with Firefox? Love Mint but because it has spyware friendly (not saying Mint spies but I can't use it knowing) Ubuntu under the hood, I moved on to SolydK, great distro.


It's all down to personal tastes, some still like Windows XP others don't though with Ubuntu I don't even know how long it will last due to the OS going over to the Mir-Display server this in my view is the wrong choice and should have an option of either Xorg or Mir in the installer.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby jahid » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:05 pm

linux is simpler than windows. where there is freedom, that becomes a place of simplicity in no time....
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Linux is Not Windows

Postby romanyacik » Fri May 09, 2014 6:46 pm

With the licensing, what's the difference between BSD and MIT? I never got that.

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby tek_heretik » Sat May 10, 2014 10:26 am

DarkCerberus wrote:though with Ubuntu I don't even know how long it will last due to the OS going over to the Mir-Display server this in my view is the wrong choice and should have an option of either Xorg or Mir in the installer.

Good point, apparently they like being the 'wildcard' in the FOSS world, just more weirdness coming out of Canonical, *shakes head*.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby Jeffex » Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:56 am

Well...I have not chosen Linux because I was expecting it to be better than Windows.
I have chosen to try Open Source because I want to distance myself from corporate entities that want to monopolize and control the Internet.
It's all about privacy to me, and these c **ts need to be put to rest.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby ibrahimansari » Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:05 am

Funny how people the Linux and Windows are the same.
How I remember it is instead of remembering that that's that, I just remember the kernel is NT or Linux.
NT? That's Windows.

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby excollier » Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:07 am

If systemd carries on unchecked, then Linux might as well be Windows.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby dkstanson » Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:30 am

Both Windows and Linux work great on their own field. Windows is great for daily work and gaming, however Linux is the best os for server. :D
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Re: Linux is Not Windows & LM 17.1 makes most sense

Postby Linus MacWinfrey » Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:39 am

Perhaps it helps not to be brand loyal. One has to follow whatever serves your needs best and not criticise those who follow different routes.


Windows Vista came in for much criticism, yet my own Dell Vostro with only 1GB RAM and a Celeron CPU performed well, with only the occasional crash. Maybe I was just lucky.


Windows 7 64-bit had serious hardware compatibility issues and so I installed Linux instead, on an IBM Thinkpad T61P that I had bought second-hand for a song.


Windows 8 served me well and its stability (relative to other Windows versions) really did impress even though going Metro was not bright. It claimed second best place after Linux, as Linux (Mint) outperformed it by a wide margin. I installed Linux Mint because I was tired of having the dogs at the gate to keep intruders out or sleeping with eyes wide open because anyone could jump the firewall.


Apple had a lovely OS and was well put together, but then I installed updates and the trouble began. Lost wireless networking, location services suffered, then local sync was taken away, the iPhone 5's power button broke and it took Apple well over a month to try fix and finally replace it, iCloud corrupted notes/contacts/calendar data and so the list goes on. A prime product marred by sloppy updates, mostly happening after Steve Jobs had died. Here is an example of how updates work nicely in Apple. At the price, is this a good deal, then?
http://www.zdnet.com/when-yosemite-went ... 000036309/


Linux Mint 17.1 is a very useful OS that comes loaded with all software solutions the majority of users will ever need. Of course, no OS is perfect. No OS can ever satisfy all, either.


Pricing is an issue and one would expect from Apple to be as relatively trouble free as Linux Mint is. Mostly, in my experience over the past 8+ years with it, everything generally just works and I never even needed to install hardware drivers. This was true for various distro's and a variety of versions of each, as installed on a number of different computers. When the free Linux works better than the premium-priced Mac OS X, one has to decide which will be right for you.


One has to look at these things objectively and seeing the bigger picture always helps.


The USA with its 300 million citizens have a much denser internet saturation than, for instance, the entire African continent with its 1.02 billion people spread across an area more than three times the size of the USA, fragmented into 54 countries totally independent from each other politically. Less than 18% have internet access.


Now consider this: Microsoft, submitting to US security agencies, were instructed to force users through the cloud. Office 365 is fast replacing standalone MSO. Those with fast broadband have no objection. More than six out of every seven global computer users do not have broadband and more than for of every seven have NO internet access. This is where Microsoft and its cloud'only approach, same as Apple, become irrelevant to those majorities.


Arguing between Linux vs Mac vs Windows becomes futile when the broadband internet prerequisite remains evasive and non-existent in most areas.


Standalone Linux works well in these environments and so do pirate Windows installations. The latter is rife in African-, Asian- and South American countries.


Consider total cost of ownership and you will see that Linux Mint or any other user-friendly distro really makes more sense to the bulk of the global population. When Windows became the global dominator, it was so only because there were, at the time, no real alternatives.


This is changing fast and users now have the wealth of choice. As Linux is the only OS that really offers future-proof solutions to all users and uses and markets, it could become the logical choice. Bear in mind, though, the tremendous Android footprint that ever-increases. Even that is Linux! Tablets & phablets are replacing a share of the desktop market but I do not see a total demise of the "real computer" for another decade or two.


It is good to have alternatives, just as it is good to be educated and informed, so as to choose the right swords for the battle. Any solution that works as well in either connected or unconnected environments will have the dollar vote of the users that need it.


Perhaps by 2035, when the entire globe has real freely available (coverage), reliable and either cheap or free broadband, less people will need standalone products. Until then, cloud-only technology aimed at 300 million users may be irrelevant to most of the other 6.3 billion.


Linux Mint 17.1 offers similar or sometimes even superior features and benefits to Mac and Windows, at an effective 100% discount on both OS and software applications. In a global economy that really finds itself not in recession but more in a depression (if you know how to evaluate statistics) it makes sense to participate economically at the least cost possible. In developing countries, Windows alone can easily cost up to 80% of the cost of the hardware it rides upon. Add the exorbitant cost of application software and the costs sky-rocket. MSO 2013 Professional and Windows 8.1 Professional multi-language can easily cost almost US$1k here. Apple costs 55% more than in the US in our market, even more in some other countries.

How much did you pay for Mint + apps?


Linux Mint 17.1 makes sense to those who are informed and thinking soberly.
Last edited by Linus MacWinfrey on Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby BigEasy » Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:02 am

Hmm... Very, very great idea (in height and width too). However, one thing is unclear: do you really think that there is one Linux on the Earth that exists on its own like a wild flower in field and does not require any money, just sunshine?
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby frodopogo » Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:07 am

I got into computers in 1991. I was most attracted to GeoWorks... it was small and fast. Within the applications that came with it, and a very few add ons, it was great, but nobody ever wrote significant applications for it. It was basically a toy.

I grudgingly started using Windows.

One thing I have always hated is how SLOW Windows is. It's always been a resource hog. So it tends to force hardware upgrades WAY too soon. That's good for the hardware manufacturers, but bad for me.
The other thing that I hated about Windows is how insecure it is. I got a couple of viruses at music sites (not pirate sites, DISCUSSION sites) that should have been safe. But it was enough that I needed SOME Antivirus protection. And the cure really was in a lot of ways worse than the problem for me. McAfee in particular. They're like having a used car salesman living in your computer! THAT makes it hard to get anything done.
Somewhere I heard about Knoppix Live CDs (this was awhile back) and how you could use them to surf the web, and they were virus proof. So I downloaded Knoppix and burned myself a Knoppix CD so I could go to my favorite music sites WHILE their malware attack was ongoing, and not have to worry. Cool.
And, even in a live CD, it was almost as fast as Windows. Unfortunately, it came with Konqueror and Iceweasel for browsers.... neither really worked well for me... Konqueror was weird, and that version of Iceweasel was crash prone... I think... it's been a while.

I got together with a musician that I knew from some public jams, to jam, make some music. And he mentioned he was using Ubuntu. That got my attention. I could have lived with brown, but the control panel was across the top. No. Dealbreaker.
Well, I thought to myself, I need to check out some Linux versions. I found Distrowatch, figured the top 10 must be top 10 for a reason, started reading reviews.
Linux Mint was GREEN :mrgreen: .... and the control panel was on the bottom like I was used to, AND it had a good reputation for friendliness in the forums, AND Clement Lefebvre seems to "get" what Windows refugees want and need from a Linux distro. It amounts to this, I'm sorry. If a distro requires you to drop to Terminal, it's BROKEN. To me, Terminal is not a place to do work, it's a place to fix broken things in a Linux distro. It's like opening the hood of your car. Yeah, I like to do as many things on my car as I can, but if I spend too much time under the hood, it's because the car is broken... it's not getting me down the road in carefree style. The driver/passenger compartment is to me analogous to the Graphical User Interface and the desktop, etc.
And this endless desktop tweaking reminds me of people who are endlessly customizing their cars, but never go anyplace important with them.
To me, desktop effects are sort of like having RIMS on your car! :roll: :wink:

Anyway, I also liked Mint because it was based on Ubuntu, and I figured there would be more apps available (more on that later!). I decided to stick with LTS versions. Changing every 6 months just seemed NUTS. First up was Elyssa, then Isadora. I had to use Terminal occasionally with them, not too much though.... mostly video issues. I mostly skipped Maya because Isadora was working so well, and all the fallout from the Ubuntu Unity and Gnome 3 changes seemed to be giving Clement and company too much work to do, and the reviews weren't as good as I was used to seeing from Mint.
When Qiana came out, I was finally having enough problems with Isadora to want to switch, plus the reviews were better. I'm also happy about the switch to an LTS base.... that makes SOOOOO much sense to me! But I am having some problems. Some may be the age of the computer.... it's 9 years old now! Some seems to be Firefox. It seems to be doing to my Linux installs what Windows did to itself.... so bloated, it maxes out resources, slows things to a crawl, and the computer hangs!
So, I've been looking for alternatives. I always kept Opera around just in case a page wouldn't display properly, but it was just too different from Firefox to get comfortable with. Chrome/Chromium??? Sorry, I don't trust Google AT ALL... having experienced Microsoft, Google seems like more of the same. So far I have tried Midori, Netsurf, and Qupzilla. Midori and Qupzilla are somewhat crash prone. Netsurf is more stable, but it doesn't function well with the forum software on my favorite music forums. In the process, I've noticed that the software repositories really are a problem. Yeah, there are LOTS of programs.... but some don't even tell you they run under Terminal!!! And others are just buggy. And many programs are of interest only to programmers and such.
And a critical problem: It's not unusual for an application in the repositories to be two versions behind the current version. That was the case with Netsurf. I contacted them about the problems I was having, but maybe because they are such a small crew, they don't want to support two versions ago... they want to know If their current version have the problems. Can you blame them? And unless I figure out how to download and compile the current version of Netsurf, I'm not going to find out.

I was going to install Scribus, but it's also two versions behind the current one, and it seems like I might need some support with a program that complex.

Anyway.... this application software situation seem like a crucial problem. Yeah, the repository system is very safe, but it keeps Linux application projects from getting the attention and support they need to thrive. Sometimes I hear about a cool piece of software for Linux, and it is in the repository? No. That's getting old.

I'm getting frustrated to the point where I'm thinking I might have two computers.... one a Linux box for Internet, e-mail, and word processing, and a Windows box for music applications. Oh yeah.... then there's the real time kernel problem. Musicians need to record, and record more than one track... that's called multitracking. And a real time kernel makes it a whole lot easier. And there IS a real time kernel for Linux, but the project is dying on the vine, so the RT kernel's development is frozen, and nVidia drivers are not compatible with the real time kernel. At least that's what I understand at this point- correct me if I'm wrong.
If you look at the mobile phone world, if a phone or "platform" doesn't have enough quality apps, it's not going to make it... it's going to DIE.
And I'm concerned that all this continual changing and customizing of desktops while application projects are dying on the vine amounts to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic!!! Or at least way too much time is spent reinventing the wheel (or the desktop) I really don't need or want desktop effects with Compiz if I can't get the apps I want.
Maybe there needs to be a Linux AppWatch similar to DistroWatch, to draw attention to worthy software projects. I like Linux Mint, but I'm beginning to think I'd be willing to switch to a different Distro, if they had the current version of some key application in their repository. Or I may just get a second computer and put Ubuntu Studio on it. Hey... Linux IS free! :mrgreen:

Another frustration: Linux computer geeks! I can't be TOO hard on you, because we musicians aren't a very mature practical bunch... but you computer geeks aren't either. Legos, indeed. Legos are TOYS.... not TOOLS. Music may seem to some like a fairly useless endeavor, but it means to me that Linux has to be a TOOL, not a toy. It's a means to an end, a way of accomplishing something. And I get frustrated with those of you that see it as an end in itself.
The thing is, those of you that like to tinker with your computers just for jollies, I wonder what you're doing with Mint anyway. I would think a distro like Arch would be more up your alley. If I understand correctly, Arch really IS Linux that works like a Lego set!!!

Anyway, since Linux Mint has a reputation for being a complete, user friendly distro, some of you guys are just asking to be annoyed by us Windows refugees coming in and expecting Linux Mint to work as MUCH LIKE WINDOWS AS POSSIBLE. That's just the way we are. We don't want the viruses, and we don't want that bloat slowing us down, but yeah.... it would be nice if everything else would work as much like Windows AS POSSIBLE. Yeah, I know there's a limit to what is possible. Some change and adaption is necessary, but change just to be different? No.
And more apps, please! :mrgreen: I wish half the distros would go away and those people would start working on APPS.
And you're not going to turn me into a Linux geek- I tried REALLY hard to turn myself into a computer geek in the 90's, and it DIDN'T WORK... and it's WAY too late now!

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby Linus MacWinfrey » Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:40 am

@frodopogo

Thank you for your most interesting post and your well-honed eloquence. You managed to post a very entertaining essay that I enjoy reading more than once, which is why my response comes at this day, many weeks later.


Updates, as the world of Mac had taught me through tribulation, are dangerous and that is why the wizards in the world of Linux are reluctant to push the latest to the fore at the repository. No, let it first get tested and proven, thereby also weeding out any possibility of malicious code. This takes time and this is why I welcome it. If I jumped at each and every new release, I could have stayed with Mac or Windows! :shock:

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