Linux is Not Windows

Chat about Linux in general
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Moem
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by Moem » Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:04 pm

Well, silly me! I'm using Mint as a desktop OS and so is my mother. Oops, I guess the joke's on us! :wink:
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by Citizen229 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:10 pm

Honestly directx is the only thing keeping windows up, at least for the things I have done with a PC. As a linux newb, the many different styles are a pro, but also a con. A unified linux to pool resources and create one ultimate desktop evironment would be ground breaking. One could argue Mint does this by making a windows looking OS that is new user friendly. I fully believe choices are good, but too many can be bad in a confusing way for a new person. This is why you can find the same questions being repeated over and over again from new people. Which version to use? What is this DE stuff? etc etc. This should be a red flag to the linux community.Granted, Mint is by far the most recommended for new people. I looked at it this when I "shopped " for a linux Os. Mint for windows looking, and Unbuntu for iOS looking. Anything else at that time really just confused me. The reality is most PC users are not power users. Heck Windows does not have hot corners, and since going linux I still do not use them. I went to XFCE for the simplicity, because that is the closest experience to my windows years.Mint XFCE +vulkan acceptance is what will get people off windows, familiar functional simplicity. Just my 2cp take it for what it is worth.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by InkKnife » Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:47 pm

Mintmag wrote:I read most of the article. It some really good points but I also though it made some bad ones. Especially about user friendliness being myth and how better = different. Better means the same but improved. As far as I am censored Linux distributions have quite a few problems they have to over come before they can honestly be called a Desktop OS let alone being compared to something like Windows.
I have switched my wife and college age daughter over to Linux and they both tell me they like it better, find Linux easier to use than Windows and far more reliable. My wife was particularly glad about basically never having to reboot after being used to rebooting Windows after every update or having to reboot because Windows went weird on her like it often does.
I dumped OSX 6 years ago, used Windows one year and had it up to my eyebrows with dealing with Windows foibles, switched to Linux and never looked back.
My good old PC:
Core2quad@2.33, 8GB Ram, Radeon HD 6850. 64GB SSD boot Drive, 750GB data dump drive, Mint/Cinnamon edition.

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by TooMuchTime » Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:24 am

The lesson, of course, is that knowledge means freedom and independence, which is as true of OSes as it is automobiles. But freedom isn't free. It takes a lot of work, thought, and sacrifice.
Therein lies the problem. You have to have people who want to learn. You wanted to learn to fix your van because it was necessary for your job. I work with people that use computers, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year, and they refuse to learn simple things like files, folders, and shortcuts. Even though it is a job requirement. These people I work with are just so ignorant that knowledge means nothing to them because it is a computer and therefore has no use outside of the job. They should all be fired and tech-savvy people should be hired in their place. Working with them is a chore because of their shortsighted attitude toward their own jobs. They don't want to work at their jobs, they just show up.

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by Mintmag » Sat Nov 26, 2016 7:35 am

InkKnife wrote:
Mintmag wrote:I read most of the article. It some really good points but I also though it made some bad ones. Especially about user friendliness being myth and how better = different. Better means the same but improved. As far as I am censored Linux distributions have quite a few problems they have to over come before they can honestly be called a Desktop OS let alone being compared to something like Windows.
I have switched my wife and college age daughter over to Linux and they both tell me they like it better, find Linux easier to use than Windows and far more reliable. My wife was particularly glad about basically never having to reboot after being used to rebooting Windows after every update or having to reboot because Windows went weird on her like it often does.
I dumped OSX 6 years ago, used Windows one year and had it up to my eyebrows with dealing with Windows foibles, switched to Linux and never looked back.
Is your wife/daughter gamers by any chance. Also what do they use their computers for. As in what are the specific tasks and programs they use on it? I should mention that I am quite experienced with Windows. There's not a lot I can't do to it. For I can do more in Windows (this includes change the user interface) then I can in Linux. But I've been using it since 3.11 For me Windows does nothing unless I want it to. this includes updates and telemetry. I updated to Win 10 when I was ready and not before. My version of 7 didn't even get a popup for 10.

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by InkKnife » Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:46 pm

Mintmag wrote:
InkKnife wrote:
Mintmag wrote:I read most of the article. It some really good points but I also though it made some bad ones. Especially about user friendliness being myth and how better = different. Better means the same but improved. As far as I am censored Linux distributions have quite a few problems they have to over come before they can honestly be called a Desktop OS let alone being compared to something like Windows.
I have switched my wife and college age daughter over to Linux and they both tell me they like it better, find Linux easier to use than Windows and far more reliable. My wife was particularly glad about basically never having to reboot after being used to rebooting Windows after every update or having to reboot because Windows went weird on her like it often does.
I dumped OSX 6 years ago, used Windows one year and had it up to my eyebrows with dealing with Windows foibles, switched to Linux and never looked back.
Is your wife/daughter gamers by any chance. Also what do they use their computers for. As in what are the specific tasks and programs they use on it? I should mention that I am quite experienced with Windows. There's not a lot I can't do to it. For I can do more in Windows (this includes change the user interface) then I can in Linux. But I've been using it since 3.11 For me Windows does nothing unless I want it to. this includes updates and telemetry. I updated to Win 10 when I was ready and not before. My version of 7 didn't even get a popup for 10.
No gaming.
My family does typical things, web browsing, word processing, photo editing.
Nice that you are expert at Windows and I think that Windows is suitable for experts only. The killer feature in Linux that makes it particularly well suited for non-technical people is the centralized updating mechanism. With Windows you are stuck updating your apps individually and separately from the OS while in Linux all you have to do is run the update manager once in awhile which is super easy to learn and super easy to do.
Any OS can be safe and secure if you are an expert, that is nothing to brag about, the mark of an advanced, modern and secure OS is the easy ability of keep it safe and secure with no particular technical knowledge. Windows fails this test while Linux shines in this regard.
My good old PC:
Core2quad@2.33, 8GB Ram, Radeon HD 6850. 64GB SSD boot Drive, 750GB data dump drive, Mint/Cinnamon edition.

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by sikejsudjek » Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:44 am

"As far as I am censored Linux distributions have quite a few problems they have to over come before they can honestly be called a Desktop OS let alone being compared to something like Windows."

As far as I'm concerned when Redmond makes windows 10 stable, look good, stop spying on me (no you can't easily turn that off even with host blocking programs), not need virus checkers, defragging, spyware checkers, updates that work without stalling or crashing, then it can be considered a proper desktop OS. At the moment its a poor substitute for Linux stability, openness and reliability. :lol:

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by BG405 » Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:29 pm

sikejsudjek wrote:At the moment its a poor substitute for Linux stability, openness and reliability. :lol:
I would say "a poor alternative to"! Note also that those at Redmond deem it OK for their OS to DELETE software it doesn't approve of, WITHOUT asking, which may well include the aforementioned host-blocking programs.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by sikejsudjek » Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:17 pm

Yes and for some reason they keep thinking that I'll love Candy Crush Saga which I don't! Nor do I want to connect and xbox that I don't own.

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by Mintmag » Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:34 pm

InkKnife wrote:
Mintmag wrote:
InkKnife wrote: I have switched my wife and college age daughter over to Linux and they both tell me they like it better, find Linux easier to use than Windows and far more reliable. My wife was particularly glad about basically never having to reboot after being used to rebooting Windows after every update or having to reboot because Windows went weird on her like it often does.
I dumped OSX 6 years ago, used Windows one year and had it up to my eyebrows with dealing with Windows foibles, switched to Linux and never looked back.
Is your wife/daughter gamers by any chance. Also what do they use their computers for. As in what are the specific tasks and programs they use on it? I should mention that I am quite experienced with Windows. There's not a lot I can't do to it. For I can do more in Windows (this includes change the user interface) then I can in Linux. But I've been using it since 3.11 For me Windows does nothing unless I want it to. this includes updates and telemetry. I updated to Win 10 when I was ready and not before. My version of 7 didn't even get a popup for 10.
No gaming.
My family does typical things, web browsing, word processing, photo editing.
Nice that you are expert at Windows and I think that Windows is suitable for experts only. The killer feature in Linux that makes it particularly well suited for non-technical people is the centralized updating mechanism. With Windows you are stuck updating your apps individually and separately from the OS while in Linux all you have to do is run the update manager once in awhile which is super easy to learn and super easy to do.
Any OS can be safe and secure if you are an expert, that is nothing to brag about, the mark of an advanced, modern and secure OS is the easy ability of keep it safe and secure with no particular technical knowledge. Windows fails this test while Linux shines in this regard.
Actually you do make a good point here. I don't like telling people that I'm an "expert" because I have no interest in bragging only in getting things to work. That being said I have allowed perfect to do things manually and in both Windows and Linux I do things manually. In Windows doing things manually is easy but in Linux it's quite difficult. Mint's infrastructure is mostly command driven with a lot of config files to work with to change things. However I must agree that this system is quite well suited to people who have a habit of downloading and installing every little thing they find without knowing what it does. Having a password for someone like me is just annoying I'm always trying to turn it off because I really don't need my PC second guessing my decisions. However, this is useful for people who don't really know what they are doing. This is probably why Linux doesn't let you decide where you want apps to go when you install them. but I do know what I'm doing and I'd like to have control over such things.
BG405 wrote:
sikejsudjek wrote:At the moment its a poor substitute for Linux stability, openness and reliability. :lol:
I would say "a poor alternative to"! Note also that those at Redmond deem it OK for their OS to DELETE software it doesn't approve of, WITHOUT asking, which may well include the aforementioned host-blocking programs.
I've heard of Windows deleting software before but only from the Linux crowed. I've never experienced or heard anyone else bring it up.

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by BG405 » Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:49 pm

sikejsudjek wrote:Yes and for some reason they keep thinking that I'll love Candy Crush Saga which I don't! Nor do I want to connect and xbox that I don't own.
Exactly! Some companies (IMHO should be all of them) forbid playing games on work computers when people are being employed to .. ahem .. work. Now MS have overridden the ability of admins (in smaller outfits without the expensive contracts) to prevent this.
Mintmag wrote:I've heard of Windows deleting software before but only from the Linux crowed. I've never experienced or heard anyone else bring it up.
I have heard this from Windows users. I'll ask about it to confirm it but am fairly certain I've also read about it in the documentation somewhere.
Last edited by BG405 on Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by Mintmag » Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:50 pm

BG405 wrote:
sikejsudjek wrote:Yes and for some reason they keep thinking that I'll love Candy Crush Saga which I don't! Nor do I want to connect and xbox that I don't own.
Exactly!
Mintmag wrote:I've heard of Windows deleting software before but only from the Linux crowed. I've never experienced or heard anyone else bring it up.
I have heard this from Windows users. I'll ask about it to confirm it but am fairly certain I've also read about it in the documentation somewhere.
I've also heard it's a bug with the registry, but yes please find some proof I'd very much like test this on a virtual machine.

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by BG405 » Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:57 pm

I will do. I also edited my above post whilst you were submitting your reply - added a bit.

Not sure yet whether it's the OS itself or its default anti-malware program (Windows Defender?).
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by Mintmag » Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:04 pm

BG405 wrote:I will do. I also edited my above post whilst you were submitting your reply - added a bit.

Not sure yet whether it's the OS itself or its default anti-malware program (Windows Defender?).
Lol could be. I make sure Defender smart-screen, firewall telemetry automatic updates. In fact just about all of Microsoft background services are completely disabled before I even put drivers into it. I find it makes things run a lot better and smoother. (never use automatic anything with my OS)

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by BG405 » Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:21 pm

I'm not surprised it runs faster without all those I/O, process & file-checking programs running. This is part of the reason Linux systems run more efficiently and reliably .. none of these processes interfering with normal operation. But then, I have no intention of connecting my older machines to the internet, should I boot in to those operating systems. The only Windows program I might need to use is Rufus and the machine will have the network cable pulled before booting that OS.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by Mintmag » Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:27 pm

BG405 wrote:I'm not surprised it runs faster without all those I/O, process & file-checking programs running. This is part of the reason Linux systems run more efficiently and reliably .. none of these processes interfering with normal operation. But then, I have no intention of connecting my older machines to the internet, should I boot in to those operating systems. The only Windows program I might need to use is Rufus and the machine will have the network cable pulled before booting that OS.
The main reason I prefer Windows over Linux is that I feel it has more user control. The key word is "user" and not developer. Linux is either very simple or extremely complicated. Using it casually is fine. Customizing apt and controlling how programs are installed, distributed and configured outside of default is quite a challenge. With Windows. Once you are familiar with gpedit and services.msc you'll wander how you lived without. That being said only Windows Enterprise offers full control. The other home versions don't. This is because Microsoft real customers aren't home user but corporate users. Enterprise doesn't mess around. It's a very powerful OS made with admins in mind.

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by killer de bug » Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:32 pm

Mintmag wrote:Having a password for someone like me is just annoying I'm always trying to turn it off because I really don't need my PC second guessing my decisions. However, this is useful for people who don't really know what they are doing.
You are so full of misconceptions. viewtopic.php?f=42&t=219089
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by Mintmag » Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:44 pm

killer de bug wrote:
Mintmag wrote:Having a password for someone like me is just annoying I'm always trying to turn it off because I really don't need my PC second guessing my decisions. However, this is useful for people who don't really know what they are doing.
You are so full of misconceptions. viewtopic.php?f=42&t=219089
-.- That doesn't make it any less annoying.

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by deleted » Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:25 pm

...uh how about Firefox crashing immediately (if not sooner) when you start it on Windows with an AMD video driver?
I'd call that annoying.
-Hinto

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Post by Mintmag » Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:03 pm

hinto wrote:...uh how about Firefox crashing immediately (if not sooner) when you start it on Windows with an AMD video driver?
I'd call that annoying.
-Hinto
From what I've heard AMD drivers aren't any better on Linux. Also I don't see how passwords would fix that.

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