Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead

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richnbernie
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Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead

Post by richnbernie »

I love the security of Linux but this is 2011 and software and hardware are evolving, FAST.
This is reality but many of you probably have your own versions of reality.
Yes, an old article but I and others see Linux faling behind as others are moving forward faster. Without a strong leader, Linux will not make it very far in the desktop and laptop area. Wireless devices are at the front anyway.

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/a ... _dead.html

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vrkalak
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Re: Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead

Post by vrkalak »

Yes, this is an old article, but . . .

The article was written by and for a Windows-based magazine. Of course, they are not going to put Linux in a favorable position.
And the Linux-distros and version they do refer to are not the top-of-the-line or best of Linux.

There is actually no comparison . . . Linux is so far ahead of Windows in the Operating System and computer Server market that Windows knows it will never catch up.
The only reason that Windows still has the desktop market is that they pay the computer manufacturers to pre-install Windows on all new computers.

Ubuntu and Android (both are Linux-based) are the fastest growing OS' in the world ... hands down. I don't use either one.
Everyone in the computer world knows that Android is taking over the hand-held computer market, not only cell phones.

Acer says that they are stopping Netbook production and putting their sights on developing Tablets with Android and/or Debian OS pre-installed.

The Linux-users may say that they don't like the way Ubuntu is going with the Unity desktop/shell . . . but mark my words, the Windows computer users will love Unity
I can see unity taking over a good portion of the Windows PC market in the next few years.

So is the Linux Dream Dead? Not by a long shot.
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randomizer
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Re: Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead

Post by randomizer »

vrkalak wrote:The Linux-users may say that they don't like the way Ubuntu is going with the Unity desktop/shell . . . but mark my words, the Windows computer users will love Unity
I can see unity taking over a good portion of the Windows PC market in the next few years.
Sad in a way, but probably true. Mark Shuttleworth has a vision for the desktop that is a merging of the existing conventional UI design and that of mobile devices. Many people love big shiny buttons, and that is the crowd that Ubuntu is going to target.
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Re: Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead

Post by vrkalak »

randomizer wrote: Many people love big shiny buttons, and that is the crowd that Ubuntu is going to target.
That and that with Unity everything is right there, in front of them. They don't have to open a menu or look for something -- it's there.
With either the Unity-desktop or with Android Apps on the screen ... everything people might want or need to use the computer -- is on the screen/desktop.

The average computer user doesn't want to know how the computer works ... they just want it to work. And people like 'eye-candy'

Sad to say, but "people don't like to think"
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

The other reason, I hear from people, as to why Linux will never be as good as Windows is the "installer"

With Windows, you either, load the Installation/Restore disk or at the BIOS select System Restore to bring up the embedded Windows Installer.
And Windows does everything for you ... of course, it's dependable and easy.
Windows doesn't partition/move or save anything. It does a complete install to the entire disk - No questions asked.
Windows also, takes hours to do a Complete Install.

Any Linux OS has a good install program, too. Except with Linux you have to think and make choices when you install.
Just as simple and dependable as the Windows installer, except that Linux installs the OS according to "your personal" specifications and not Microsofts.
Of course, I can install a Complete Linux OS ... in under 30 minutes.
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d00med
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Re: Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead

Post by d00med »

vrkalak wrote:Windows also, takes hours to do a Complete Install.

Any Linux OS has a good install program, too. Except with Linux you have to think and make choices when you install.
Just as simple and dependable as the Windows installer, except that Linux installs the OS according to "your personal" specifications and not Microsofts.
Of course, I can install a Complete Linux OS ... in under 30 minutes.
I'm not a fan of Windows, but a Windows install takes me about 30-40 minutes, whereas installing Mint takes about an hour because I have to download language packs from the net during the install, which means one has to know how to configure an internet connection before installing the OS. Might be problematic for some.
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Re: Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead

Post by randomizer »

You don't have to install language packs, you can skip that step. The problem is you need to be in front of the computer to do so. I think the option to skip them should be given prior to the main installation beginning, so that you can configure everything and then leave for 10 minutes.
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Re: Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead

Post by ibm450 »

randomizer wrote:You don't have to install language packs, you can skip that step. The problem is you need to be in front of the computer to do so. I think the option to skip them should be given prior to the main installation beginning, so that you can configure everything and then leave for 10 minutes.

totally agree.

also, linux installs are getting as bloated as windows itself.
what mint really needs to concentrate on is to have up-to-date iso's that contain all of the updates instead of downloading extra 100 odd MB or more after the install.
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Re: Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead

Post by kvv »

ibm450 wrote: also, linux installs are getting as bloated as windows itself.
what mint really needs to concentrate on is to have up-to-date iso's that contain all of the updates instead of downloading extra 100 odd MB or more after the install.
I don't think it matters too much, because a user shouldn't be installing more than once a year, or twice, unless absolutely needed. Of course there are distro "tasters" like me, but that shouldn't be taken into consideration really. That said, I am sure no one would mind updated ISOs, only they probably have other stuff to work on.

And yes, I agree with OP. I love Linux Mint, and it's good for 99% of the stuff that I want, but linux on the desktop is a dead dream, and (very rightly, IMO) the focus of the key players is shifting.
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Re: Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead

Post by TBABill »

d00med wrote:
vrkalak wrote:Windows also, takes hours to do a Complete Install.

Any Linux OS has a good install program, too. Except with Linux you have to think and make choices when you install.
Just as simple and dependable as the Windows installer, except that Linux installs the OS according to "your personal" specifications and not Microsofts.
Of course, I can install a Complete Linux OS ... in under 30 minutes.
I'm not a fan of Windows, but a Windows install takes me about 30-40 minutes, whereas installing Mint takes about an hour because I have to download language packs from the net during the install, which means one has to know how to configure an internet connection before installing the OS. Might be problematic for some.
By "Windows Install" did you mean from a basic Windows disk or the manufacturer-provided copy of all the software and drivers? I did a clean install of Windows 7 from a vanilla Win 7 install disk and it took probably 2 hours to get to a useable desktop with all drivers, printer software, office suite, etc. And I can't count how many reboots because of all the updates, service packs, etc. I'm not exaggerating at all by stating it took 2 hours. Just curious how you do it in 30 min?
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Re: Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead

Post by d00med »

30-40 minutes to get a Vista desktop from an OEM disc. If you want to include updating post install, I have to leave that downloading all day, for both OSes. Though the bulk of the updates in Mint aren't crucial. Drivers take a few minutes in both cases.
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Re: Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead

Post by tatsujin79 »

richnbernie wrote:I love the security of Linux but this is 2011 and software and hardware are evolving, FAST.
Yes but so is the kernel, I am seeing more and more hardware being supported everyday. I have an old ati radeon card in my laptop, when i started using linux the performance was poor, but lately i've been recieving updates (in arch) at like once a day and now it works better then ever. The kernel is evolving quite well itself
This is reality but many of you probably have your own versions of reality.
thats right, my reality includes people who make choices, one where as long as the hope exists, the dream is not dead
Yes, an old article but I and others see Linux faling behind as others are moving forward faster. Without a strong leader, Linux will not make it very far in the desktop and laptop area. Wireless devices are at the front anyway.

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/a ... _dead.html

rich
I don't see how its failing in any way shape or form. HP is talking about shipping their devices with a linux based web os http://ostatic.com/blog/hp-has-far-reac ... ased-webos instead of windows. Android is the top or atleast one of the top phone os's etc. To paraphrase another poster, "linux is more like a slow developing child" IMO having this discussion is just driving a nail in our own coffin.

Oh and about installs, windows xp service pack 2 takes around 1hr 15 min for me. Linux mint 9 (which is more "modern") took 35 min
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Re: Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead

Post by rdonnelly »

30000 Packages in the Repos and I still have to run windoze in a Vbox to do accounting for my business. Some one really needs to make an accounting app that is compatible with Linux. We want something simple like Quick Books, MYOB, Peachtree, etc. And we want to be able to install it from package manager, and not have to set up a database, and screw up our systems in the meantime like I have done more then once trying to install a Linux accounting program. KMyMoney seems promising, but it needs alot of work to be able to do, payroll, invoicing, inventory, purchases, chart of accounts, taxes, etc.

But then we go to games, and I could care less about them, but I am sure alot of people do, and they need windoze to run their games :roll:
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Re: Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead

Post by tatsujin79 »

rdonnelly wrote:30000 Packages in the Repos and I still have to run windoze in a Vbox to do accounting for my business. Some one really needs to make an accounting app that is compatible with Linux. We want something simple like Quick Books, MYOB, Peachtree, etc. And we want to be able to install it from package manager, and not have to set up a database, and screw up our systems in the meantime like I have done more then once trying to install a Linux accounting program. KMyMoney seems promising, but it needs alot of work to be able to do, payroll, invoicing, inventory, purchases, chart of accounts, taxes, etc.

But then we go to games, and I could care less about them, but I am sure alot of people do, and they need windoze to run their games :roll:
perhaps this would help? http://alternativeto.net/software/quick ... form=linux
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Re: Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead

Post by rdonnelly »

tatsujin79 wrote:
perhaps this would help? http://alternativeto.net/software/quick ... form=linux
Thanks for the good link, I might just go on the Cloud for accounting in the next tax year. I set a reminder on my calendar for Dec. 2011. And don't worry the dream for me is still alive, I realize how terrible windoze is every time I use the VirtualBox, and the long waits and stupid prompts popping up every time I have to use it.
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Re: Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead

Post by Arenalgarden »

LOL. Every time you say "Cloud" Gates and Cabbage Patch's hearts stop. :mrgreen:
CloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloud :mrgreen:
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Re: Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead

Post by rdonnelly »

Arenalgarden wrote:LOL. Every time you say "Cloud" Gates and Cabbage Patch's hearts stop. :mrgreen:
CloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloudCloud :mrgreen:
Cloud could very well change computing, Google has already released a laptop that essentially does every thing from the browser. Gates and Jobs made their fortunes so they wont be hurt. They can retire.
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Re: Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead

Post by lmintnewb »

Agree with vrkalak's 1st post,

Seems like linux is running so many things around people. Web servers are like 78% apache last time I bothered checking. Tron, I didn't have to set up an internet connection prior to installing Mint. Also finished install time, was much shorter than M$.

Once you factor in installing all the 3rd party apps it takes to make their stuff worth anything. Plus going in and tweaking all the services to make the OS slimmer and more secure. Compared to that, installing Mint from a livecd was a breeze.

As for linux falling behind, not buying that at all. Opensource software has a massive number of mindblowing talented developers working on it. Whereas closed source, has a few. Can't see how a few corporate developers could ever hope to keep up with an army of gifted developers all being welcome to contribute as they see fit.

Based on my recent experience with Mint 10. Getting the feeling linux's day has finally come in personal computing. Navigating the default GUI was every bit as self explanatory as anything I've ever seen from M$. If someone has any common sense and an elementary grade reading comprehension level. They can do anything through Mint's GUI that they could with any other OS's going.

Might just be me, didn't have to read anything. Thought it was fairly self explanatory and even more user friendly than M$'s stuff. Glad I finally started getting serious about Linux and lucked out and found Mint.

Think the OSS world makes software to be the best it can be. VS the closed source proprietary software world, who only makes it to make $ off of people. If 2 gifted heads are better than one. How is the corporate software world supposed to keep up with 200,000 gifted developers contributing to something ?
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Re: Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead

Post by ThistleWeb »

The desktop is an increasingly antiquated form factor too, people are using devices more and more to compute, look at what a smartphone is, it's a little computer that fits in your pocket, which doubles as a phone. Linux will likely always be niche on the desktop, but it's seriously ahead in embedded devices. Every eBook reader is embedded Linux, bar none. Many TVs, set top boxes etc all come with embedded Linux too, and as some have pointed out, most of the worlds servers run Linux. Most of what we do with computers now happens in a web browser connected to a server somewhere, the OS / web browser is increasingly irrelevant; ie, you don't need IE to send a tweet, or watch YouTube.

Microsoft are on the way down to bankruptcy, but they have a LONG way to fall, it won't be quick, it won't be pretty, they will take a LOT of others with them who have tied their futures to Microsoft. You'd imagine that there would be a place for Linux and Apple to fight over, I'd doubt it, the desktop as a computing form factor will be so niche by then that the market share won't matter much.

The future is in portable devices, Microsoft have finally seen this and have failed several times to be a player there, Linux is already there, already efficient, already secure, already stable, already flexible and already free. They won't shift Linux from there. Even Apple won't shift Linux there, Apple is always gonna be a premium product with shiny walled gardens, they don't even compete at the mid to low end, guess who does? Everyone else, running embedded Linux.
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Re: Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead

Post by z06gal »

My phone is the Droidx and my laptop rocks Mint 10. I came to Linux 3 years ago after one issue after the next with Vista = the worst os I have ever seen. I saw a comment in a chat room about Linux, googled it, and the first link then was Mint. I had zero clue what I was doing but I was so sick of Windows that it didn't matter. I have never been happier. I have no anti-virus, spyware, adware, spybot, malware, security suite, and the plethora of other programs to worry about and deal with. Linux provides everything I need and it screams. Support here is excellent if I have an issue which I cannot say for Windoze. My husband is a physician and they have gone to the electronic medical records which is another joke. Anyway, he brought his brand new computer home last Monday with Windows 7. It has crashed 3 times since - each time he was in the middle of doing his charting. I have messed with is some but to me it is no better than Vista. I liked XP okay but the rest suck outloud. I cannot imagine going back to Windoze. I always look forward to whatever Clem and the gang are coming out with. Mint is just exciting to me and so elegant. It is the most user friendly of all the linux distros in my opinion and works right out of the box. I wouldn't care if it took me 3 hours to install. The final product is eons better than Windoze. When Mint 10 came out, I decided for the heck of it to update via terminal after updating the repos and it worked like a dream. I keep everything backed up so I will probably do that with Mint 11. The only issue I have experienced with linux was with flash but flash aid fixed that beautifully. For me, the dream isn't near dead. :D :D
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Re: Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead

Post by lmintnewb »

OP what OS is your comp using ? ... I rest my case, lol.


Misc sidenote: Vista was supposedly in development before M$ came out with XP. Then they finally release it to the masses and it's touted as one of the worst OS's the world had ever known, lol. One gig RAM recommended just for the OS, crashing computers far and wide and refusing to work with a dizzying array of peripherals.

Guess M$, didn't have a chance to copy stuff opensource developers came up with for vista. Bet if they ever opensource M$ stuff. They'll find out most of the stuff that manages to work well. Is stuff M$ copied from opensource developers. :D

Which apparently has been M$ idea of innovation for a long, long time. Wait for somebody to come out with something, then try to copy it.

M$ ... thanks to linux finally getting access to proprietary code, the nightmare is finally over. World needed software that could actually efficiently run all these nifty mobile do dads. The corporations quickly realized they couldn't use M$ software to do it. So finally started opening doors for linux.

So if anything, would say the dream isn't dead. Linux's day has finally come. It's just getting started, servers have been dominated by apache for quite awhile. Whole countries are moving away from closed source corporate software to opensource ... You can be sure Linux is one of the first things on those countries must have lists.

(edit) Not to mention India is quickly becoming the software development mecca. When the software developers among the over 1 billion people there all start digging in and using linux everyday. They are naturally going to start tweaking and contributing to it. Who knows what they'll come up with to add to it. The dream is not dead .... it's only just begun.

Sorry ... random prolinux/antiM$ rant.


:D
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