Natty 11.04beta2 - MUCH better than beta1!

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TBABill
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Natty 11.04beta2 - MUCH better than beta1!

Post by TBABill » Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:05 pm

I tried Natty at alpha 2, beta 1 and now beta 2. I had MANY complaints about Unity and hated using it. I felt like my left hand was tied to the keyboard just to find apps, you couldn't launch more than one session of an app from the Unity bar, the apps opened too close to the Unity bar by default and made it auto-hide, and it had other issues as well. I just hated using it and could not see how this could become the standard desktop for Ubuntu.

Just a week later and I decided to just give beta 2 a shot (on the 14th). What a drastic change. The Unity bar is now actually functional compared to its status just a week ago, items are simple to add, move, delete from the bar, the desktop is functional, auto hide is fixed, and the whole desktop is actually productive once you add your apps you use to the Unity bar. I now find it to be faster than using standard Gnome or Mint menu and I never dreamed I would feel that way. It's now been on one machine for several days and I have no intention of removing it (till I get the itch again, of course). They really have come through on a decent product, but as recently as just days ago I would have sworn they'd never get it done.

For all of us who love Mint and feared Ubuntu was just going to get it wrong, once this is released it may be fun to give it a go. I don't even want to fall back to standard Gnome, which is exactly what I wanted to do all along after seeing Unity and its problems. I have gotten tons of updates every day since install so it's clear there is much to change before release, but at beta2 + updates, they sure have it looking great. The bar to the side is odd at first to get used to, but simple to hide and just as easy to get to when you need it. Now I click one time to get all my apps going....never had it that easy in standard Gnome. And sequencing the icons in the order you normally use them makes it even faster to just click click click down the bar and have all your necessary apps open so quickly.

Anyone else tried it and have a different or similar experience?

Edit: I definitely want Ubuntu to succeed because as long as Mint uses Ubuntu for a base, the better Ubuntu is, the better Mint will be.

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Re: Natty 11.04beta2 - MUCH better than beta1!

Post by exploder » Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:11 pm

I do not like the way Ubuntu builds the system. To use Unity in 11.04 you have to have the proprietary drivers or else it doesn't run. You have to keep the system running without freezing long enough to load the proprietary drivers. If 11.04 was built like Mandriva or PCLinuxOS, including the proprietary drivers out of the box then Unity might not be too bad. Common sense tells me that to really succeed, the graphics stack has to be in good shape and it once again is not. Last I checked, the NVidea drivers worked like crap and I see just as many complaints about ATI.

Ubuntu 11.04 with the current NVidea issues uses as much if not more RAM than Vista would on my hardware and given Ubuntu's track record on updates breaking things, I am not very willing to try out their latest greatest regressions. Debian based Mint Editions, Debian and PCLinuxOS are my current choices for having a consistently running system.

Edit: I had high hopes for 11.04 in the beginning but I think it will just be another release with updates continuously causing breakage. Things will be compounded by Ubuntu not staying with what Gnome or Debian are doing. You can't base off Debian and then go in a totally different direction and expect the Debian based packages to fix things.

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Re: Natty 11.04beta2 - MUCH better than beta1!

Post by TBABill » Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:51 pm

I'm in agreement on the Debian base versus Ubuntu direction. I keep LMDE on another machine and Debian Testing on a desktop. I tend to play too much with my laptop, which is where Ubuntu is now. I have seen the posts regarding proprietary drivers with nVidia and ATi. I suppose my perception is a bit skewed because I have an Intel Core i3 and it uses to on-chip GPU, so drivers are not an issue since they're kernel items now. I hope those with older machines will have some method to use the system to some degree (2D) without proprietary drivers, at least to have a shot at keeping up with software while their hardware ages. For newer machines it may not be so bad. One thing with the newer installers - they do install proprietary drivers if you tell it to. Not sure it works for everyone, but I had my proprietary wireless working right off the live CD without ever plugging into ethernet and it was up and running after install without me doing anything. I wonder if video drivers are as easy?

As far as stability, I'm sure it'll be like most Ubuntu releases where the first month or two are filled with bug reports and rapidly released updates to try to fix some of them. They're releasing tons of updates already, but I haven't found a bug within anything I've used yet. I had one compiz quirk that was a little odd, but overall it already seems pretty stable....well, as far as Ubuntu stable goes. Usually before release there are all kinds of oddities that get placed into the final product, then addressed later, but so far so good. I've run torrents, different browsers, Ubuntu tweak, added weather applet to the top panel (which isn't like the old method), changed wallpapers, adjusted the Unity bar, played with themes and used Libre Office. I added codecs, DVD support, Sun Java, Adobe Flash, Chromium, GnomeDo (which I'm hesitant to even use with Unity on top). We'll see how it goes as updates arrive.

I'm not giving up my LMDE and Debian installs. They're rock solid and the machines are perfect right now. Since the kids use those I want them as stable as possible.

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Re: Natty 11.04beta2 - MUCH better than beta1!

Post by exploder » Sat Apr 16, 2011 3:46 pm

TBABill, sounds like you have have been running 11.04 long enough to know how it is. I appreciate your efforts and insight. :)

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Re: Natty 11.04beta2 - MUCH better than beta1!

Post by waldo » Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:56 pm

exploder wrote:I do not like the way Ubuntu builds the system. To use Unity in 11.04 you have to have the proprietary drivers or else it doesn't run. You have to keep the system running without freezing long enough to load the proprietary drivers. If 11.04 was built like Mandriva or PCLinuxOS, including the proprietary drivers out of the box then Unity might not be too bad. Common sense tells me that to really succeed, the graphics stack has to be in good shape and it once again is not. Last I checked, the NVidea drivers worked like crap and I see just as many complaints about ATI. . . .
Mmmm . . . I had quite a different experience installing Beta 2 on my HP laptop with nVidia graphics. Beta 2 installed the proprietary driver automatically by default. On my first boot, the nVidia big green logo splash screen appeared. It all seems to work very well.

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Re: Natty 11.04beta2 - MUCH better than beta1!

Post by exploder » Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:05 pm

I will take another look, others have said the nvidea drivers have been automatically installed but it has not happened for me so far.

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Re: Natty 11.04beta2 - MUCH better than beta1!

Post by waldo » Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:07 pm

exploder wrote:I will take another look, others have said the nvidea drivers have been automatically installed but it has not happened for me so far.
Maybe you have to check the box during the installation that authorizes doing automatic in place updates? I'm not sure about this, just a guess.

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Re: Natty 11.04beta2 - MUCH better than beta1!

Post by kvv » Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:27 pm

Are you getting frequent crash reports and hanging desktops which force you to hard reboot? ctl+alt+backspace doesnt work.
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Re: Natty 11.04beta2 - MUCH better than beta1!

Post by TBABill » Sun Apr 17, 2011 2:01 pm

kvv wrote:Are you getting frequent crash reports and hanging desktops which force you to hard reboot? ctl+alt+backspace doesnt work.
I worked it pretty hard yesterday to see if it would fail and I did get compiz to dump only once over about 10 hours. Chromium also failed once as well. Not too bad for beta with a new DE.

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Re: Natty 11.04beta2 - MUCH better than beta1!

Post by sahilshinesalways » Sun Apr 17, 2011 2:10 pm

exploder wrote:I do not like the way Ubuntu builds the system. To use Unity in 11.04 you have to have the proprietary drivers or else it doesn't run. You have to keep the system running without freezing long enough to load the proprietary drivers. If 11.04 was built like Mandriva or PCLinuxOS, including the proprietary drivers out of the box then Unity might not be too bad.....
well i dnt agree at all.... hav u tried the latest bulids of ubuntu natty?it has got drastic amount of cahnge since alpha1.i dual boot with natty and win7 found no problem in natty apart from compiz bugs.i do hav ati graphics card installed.works like charms unlike yesteryears ubuntu's.ya i do miss some goodies like gimp and media codecs apart from dat i dont have any complain.+u have optional 2d unity for netbooks who have lesser graphics power.
TBAbill: i suprized u compared beta 1 and beta 2 as there was very less difference.did u meant alpha 1 and beta 2? if yes yes i agree there is a sky high difference
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Re: Natty 11.04beta2 - MUCH better than beta1!

Post by exploder » Sun Apr 17, 2011 2:26 pm

Grabbing a daily build right now. :)

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Re: Natty 11.04beta2 - MUCH better than beta1!

Post by TBABill » Sun Apr 17, 2011 2:51 pm

sahilshinesalways wrote:TBAbill: i suprized u compared beta 1 and beta 2 as there was very less difference.did u meant alpha 1 and beta 2? if yes yes i agree there is a sky high difference
No, I found much stability and quite improved Unity bar performance from beta 1 to 2. The auto-hide happened far too often in beta 1. Often just opening an app opened it too close to the bar, forcing an auto-hide. Now things like that are sorted and the right click on the menu bar is more functional than before. Unless I was doing something wrong, I could not open FIrefox, then open another Firefox session using the Unity bar. I had to open applications, then select Firefox to get that second instance running. Now, the Unity bar will open both. I noticed other performance improvements as well and it felt like a great deal was improved from b1 to b2.

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Re: Natty 11.04beta2 - MUCH better than beta1!

Post by AlbertP » Sun Apr 17, 2011 2:52 pm

I have got many more crashes when using Gnome Shell. And if Gnome Shell runs using Nouveau OpenGL acceleration (yes, it does !), why shouldn't Unity?
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Re: Natty 11.04beta2 - MUCH better than beta1!

Post by exploder » Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:54 pm

NVidea drivers installed auto-magically, cool. I have had 4 crashes in the short amount of time this has been installed and plymouth is crap like always.... This should be a lot better than it is at this point in time.

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Re: Natty 11.04beta2 - MUCH better than beta1!

Post by waldo » Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:33 pm

exploder wrote:NVidea drivers installed auto-magically, cool. I have had 4 crashes in the short amount of time this has been installed and plymouth is crap like always.... This should be a lot better than it is at this point in time.
I'm still getting the crappy plymouth screens also. I'm fully updated and not getting the crashes on my laptop very often.

You do have to check the box during an early installer screen to get the proprietary drivers loaded, including nVidia. I'm pretty sure they are not on the distro disk, but rather get downloaded from the repository during the install. This driver is required to run Unity (this is stated right on the hardware driver options screen).

My four year old Asus mainboard desktop is another story. It has the nVidia 6150 video chipset, and Ubuntu reports that this is not sufficient to run Unity even with the proprietary driver. It defaults to Gnome. I can run some of the special effects on this machine just fine (even Windows 7 aero stuff), so it appears that Unity is very demanding of the video system. I'm tempted to install a better graphic card.

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Re: Natty 11.04beta2 - MUCH better than beta1!

Post by Dr.m0x » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:29 am

Mostly had zero issues with beta 2 running off a usb stick but I've been waiting for the removed natty repos to come online before installing and testing properly.

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Re: Natty 11.04beta2 - MUCH better than beta1!

Post by cpatrick08 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:59 am

Dr.m0x wrote:Mostly had zero issues with beta 2 running off a usb stick but I've been waiting for the removed natty repos to come online before installing and testing properly.

Sent from my Android baby.
removed is available for natty just type the following into the terminal wget -q -O - http://archive.removed/removed-archive.key | sudo apt-key add -
sudo sh -c 'echo "deb http://archive.removed/ubuntu natty-removed apps" >> /etc/apt/sources.list.d/removed.list'
http://www.ubuntuupdates.org/ppas/25

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Re: Natty 11.04beta2 - MUCH better than beta1!

Post by waldo » Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:41 pm

Update to my previous post. I bought a $38 Nvidia card (EVGA GeForce 8400 GS) for my aging Asus homebrew desktop (replaces built-in Nvidia 6150 video), and Unity now runs fine on it. Reinstalled, and downloaded the 292 updates that were available for Beta2 today!

I did have one huge problem with 11.04. The installer made a mess of GRUB on my partitioned hard disk. I had to reinstall Kubuntu 10.10 to get the drive to boot. This is my main working drive, with Windows, and two Linux distros. I should have known better than to install beta software on it. There are references to GRUB problems in the bug reports.

I installed 11.04 on another drive as the sole OS, and it is working there very well.

I still haven't spent real in depth time with Unity, but from what I have seen, Ubuntu is pretty nice for the non technical Linux user. It has an Apple Mac-like classy look and feel. It still needs some work, but I'm confident that it will get there. Perhaps not until the 11.10 release. Right now it is way ahead of where KDE4 was when it first hit the streets.

For those of us who are old Linux users, the familiar Gnome desktop (called Ubuntu Classic) is only a click option away from the login screen. The Unity desktop is the one you will recommend for your mother-in-law!

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Re: Natty 11.04beta2 - MUCH better than beta1!

Post by exploder » Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:46 pm

Natty seems to be working pretty decent right now except for Plymouth... My Wife bought an Android tablet for when I was in the hospital. Unity is 100% better than Android, Android totally sucks in comparison. I know why oems's would be interested in Unity first hand now.

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Re: Natty 11.04beta2 - MUCH better than beta1!

Post by allypink » Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:59 am

kvv wrote:Are you getting frequent crash reports and hanging desktops which force you to hard reboot? ctl+alt+backspace doesnt work.
alt+Print screen..... then in sequence R E I S U B. Done. Disks umount and everything shutsdown and reboot. Try it. It works.
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