Mint-13 DISAPPOINTED!

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GetReal
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Mint-13 DISAPPOINTED!

Post by GetReal »

Am completely new to Linux, but keep seeing Linux fanatics breaking into Windows forums & chats to chastise others. So. Thought to try it >>> disappointing.

I downloaded the Mint-13 distro from this web site, burned a DVD, booted from that DVD.
Seemed like it required MANY minutes to boot (this on a computer with Intel dual-core at 3.2 Ghz, 3 Gb memory, HP DVD R/W, and + 7200 RPM sata HD of 500 Gb)

Finally boot complete. Clicked link to install Mint. Again tremendous long wait - just faint spinning circle. Might have been better except default display resolution apparently set Very-High! (NOT good for old men with poor eyesight). Next progressed to window seemingly to select location of partition to install. Could not recognize ANY partition(?) information presented >>> all in some SDA(?) designation (NOT drive C: etc, as expected). Currently installed on one 500 Gb HD is C: FAT-32, boot and archive files (50 Gb about half full) D: FAT-32, for Windows Xp 50 Gb, E: NTFS, for Windows Vista Business 180 Gb, F: NTSF, for Windows-7 Pro 180 Gb :( >>> all current installs work under Windows Multa-boot option. Additionally there is another HD of 160 Gb, formatted NTSF that is empty >>> this is where I wanted to install Mint.

So this selection window that is presenting me with a list of SDA's, I select unknowingly/misunderstandably one of the options >>> get a message back of something similar (NO BOOT DATA or possible BOOT something missing). Ok, start at the top of the list & select each >>> get the same error message with EVERY SDA in list!

This experience refutes the fanatic posters about the greatness of Linus! Don't think I am a complete computer illiterate (having owned computers continuously since 1976 with a 6800 CPU system) but information presented in unusual ways and without some reference to existing standards is useless!

If someone here is willing to provide some much needed help then I might continue this project, otherwise it's a lost cause, bye ... :(
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karlchen
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Re: Mint-13 DISAPPOINTED!

Post by karlchen »

Hello, GetReal.

Every single sentence in your post tells that you expect Linux Mint to be just another kind of Windows. Linux Mint is not. Linux is not. (Linux is Not Windows). Read this article, please.
Provided you are prepared to accept that Linux is different from Windows, provided you are prepared to take the pain of learning something which will be new to you, then it makes sense to continue your project. Else stick with Windows and live happily ever after.

Kind regards,
Karl
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Haß gleicht einer Krankheit, dem Miserere, wo man vorne herausgibt, was eigentlich hinten wegsollte. (Goethe)
jamvaru

Re: Mint-13 DISAPPOINTED!

Post by jamvaru »

rough

you want sdb then, if you want to install on the second HDD

I recommend checking out a book from the library, preferrably one that comes with a disc, doesn't matter what, but try ubuntu first, as that is what mint is based on; when you get the hang of it, you will feel more comfortable when installing mint

If you want to proceed; select sdb, make a 10 gb partition (after deleting the current partition), format it to swap; make a second partition with the rest of the space, format it to ext4 and /

both should be primary partitions

that should get you going
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karlchen
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Re: Mint-13 DISAPPOINTED!

Post by karlchen »

jamvaru wrote:both should be primary partitions
This is not correct!
Of course Linux can be started from a primary disk partition.
Yet, unlike Windows which can only be booted from a primary partition, Linux can be installed to and boot from a logical partition which resides in an extended disk partition.
With respect to the swap partition, there is really no need to sacrifice a primary partition for it. A logical partition is sufficient.

The fact that a whole Linux system can live in logical partitions is relevant, because a lot of disks of machines that come with Windows pre-installed often have been separated into 3 or even 4 primary partitions already. So there will not be much room left for further primary partitions unless one is prepared to re-partition the whole disk and to re-install everything, Windows and Linux, from the scratch.

Karl
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Haß gleicht einer Krankheit, dem Miserere, wo man vorne herausgibt, was eigentlich hinten wegsollte. (Goethe)
jamvaru

Re: Mint-13 DISAPPOINTED!

Post by jamvaru »

karlchen wrote:
jamvaru wrote:both should be primary partitions
This is not correct!
Of course Linux can be started from a primary disk partition.
Yet, unlike Windows which can only be booted from a primary partition, Linux can be installed to and boot from a logical partition which resides in an extended disk partition.
With respect to the swap partition, there is really no need to sacrifice a primary partition for it. A logical partition is sufficient.

The fact that a whole Linux system can live in logical partitions is relevant, because a lot of disks of machines that come with Windows pre-installed often have been separated into 3 or even 4 primary partitions already. So there will not be much room left for further primary partitions unless one is prepared to re-partition the whole disk and to re-install everything, Windows and Linux, from the scratch.

Karl
sure, but I prefer primary partitions, and there is no reason to use a logical partition scheme, unless you there are multiple users and you want extra security
if you have no other option you can certainly use logical partitions; i would certainly NOT use a logical partition derived from a windows 7 install, but i suppose you could
i have no logical partitions, and no need for them; 9 linux partitions and 4 ntfs, all primary (1 is external, entire drive)

for his second drive, he doesn't need more than 2 partitions, one of which can be swap, so no need for logical partitions
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karlchen
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Re: Mint-13 DISAPPOINTED!

Post by karlchen »

jamvaru wrote: have no logical partitions, and no need for them; 9 linux partitions and 4 ntfs, all primary (1 is external, entire drive)
Exactly.
One relevant question really is: How many separate harddisks are available?
Another relevant question is: Are we still talking about MBR disks (4 primary partitions) or GPT disks (no such limit)?
My machines still restrict me to 4 primary partitions per harddisk. So I do make use of extended partitions and logical partitions inside of them.

Karl
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ajg007
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Re: Mint-13 DISAPPOINTED!

Post by ajg007 »

Getreal, dont give up! Sure it can be hard going - linux is a learning curve. I was in your shoes not so long ago and felt the same way and was nearly about to give up. I never and so so glad i didnt. :D

I think linux ,once you get used to it, is by far the better O.S. If you think you'll switch over easy, linux will turn round and bite yer ass! I've found linux has fired up my old brain cells and got me learning and thinkin again and i like that feeling.

Dont give up.....
jamvaru

Re: Mint-13 DISAPPOINTED!

Post by jamvaru »

there is the possiblity of not needing 160 GB for a single linux install
you could partition like so
1st partition: ~25 gb - root /
2nd partition: ~25 gb - second root / (alternate install, just for fun, testing new distributions)
3rd partition: ~5-10 gb - swap
4th partition: remainder ~100gb ntfs storage - accessable in windows without modifications to access linux parts

all parts can be primary partitions

or... make the 4th partition logical, then add more 25 gb partitions, 4 more, so potentially 6 linux installs on the one drive

you could make the partitions smaller, have 12 or 18 partitions, if you want

or you could try a fancy partitioning 'scheme' where you have separate root/home/other partitions

you might try letting it just install on the drive without bothering to partition it and see what happens
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NoDude
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Re: Mint-13 DISAPPOINTED!

Post by NoDude »

Man if you manage to get through this, you'll see a whole new world awaiting, and with it, some migraines and some learning :D . But this newbie (and his computer illiterate sister) can assure you that you'll never turn back to windows! :wink:

--edit=Well, maybe you'll seldom use windows for some specific task, like playing some video game you couldn't run with wine until you did it, but you can always dual boot.
Last edited by NoDude on Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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monkeyboy
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Re: Mint-13 DISAPPOINTED!

Post by monkeyboy »

Go here http://www.linuxmint.com/documentation.php and read the manual it may answer some of your questions and save you some time. Afterwards return to the forum for additional help if needed. Remember Linux has a learning curve like most new things. Lastly please don't listen to proselytizing pundits regardless of what OS they are pushing. Good Luck
If you don't like it, make something better
If you can't make something better, adapt
If you can't do either ball your panties up and cry.

Complaining is like masticating most anyone can do it.
However doing it in public is really hardcore.
GetReal
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Re: Mint-13 DISAPPOINTED!

Post by GetReal »

Thanks for the replies by all. I want to address two with my replies.

Karlchen: You seriously misunderstood my post. Having installed so many versions of Windows in my life I understand that each OS is different and has different install parameters, thus I came to Mint with that appreciation already in mind. The confusion occurred because Mint did not offer a reference of terms common to it - or anyway, I did not find it, so no understanding here. I suppose I could have gone to the public library and found something to help me. Anyway, the article link in your reply to me seemed more a salve for the "culture" it stressed than any attempt to cross that culture barrier.

What I am trying to say here is that instead of or in addition to that article, it would be helpful to newbies if there were also posted on the site a small cross-reference or dictionary of terms. Like I expect most newbies, my only experience with computer operating systems has been with Microsoft versions, not that I express overwhelming appreciation but simply that is all I know, so instead of dumping culture on me, try to be constructive. By all the posts regarding "stay with it" I think many people recognize the barrier I hit but do not address it with a fix for the issue.
If newbies have to fight an excessive learning curve beginning step one, they will all need help or else quit the process immediately, then Linus becomes a variation of exclusivity & grows slowly! :roll: Is that what the "culture" desires?

Monkeyman: Thanks for the help link. I had not realized that Linux required a different format for the HD or that a swap partition was also required. Now I have a better understanding of the install process, though still lost on terms! So - on to visit the local public library!
:wink:
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karlchen
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Re: Mint-13 DISAPPOINTED!

Post by karlchen »

Hello, GetReal.

The idea of having a dictionary "Linux - Windows / Windows - Linux" like there is a dictionary "Spanish - English / English - Spanish" is intriguing. The problem with such a dictionary is: sometimes there is a 1:1 relation between Windows terms and Linux terms. But sometimes there is no such 1:1 correspondence, because the technical concepts are simply too different. Much the same as with English and Spanish. If your native language is English you will not be able to speak Spanish fluently just with the help of a dictionary. You will have to learn Spanish as a second language. The sameis true the other way round. A native speaker of Spanish will have to learn English as a second language. The dictionary alone will be insufficient.

What a new user of Linux should definitely do, like a new user of Windows, is If people did do so before starting to mess around with a new operating system, they might realize that a few of the concepts and procedures which they have got used to may have to be re-learnt for the new operating system. Linux can do everything that Windows can do and vice versa, but they do not necessarily do it in the same way. Once you have accepted this as a fact, being aware of this fact will save you from a lot of frustration.

Kind regards,
Karl
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GetReal
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Re: Mint-13 DISAPPOINTED!

Post by GetReal »

Further to my last post : I forgot this. Rereading my original post of Disappointed I refer to Linux Fanatics more than once, from the tone of replies I think the word selection might have irritated some, so let me explain meanings.

My use of the word Fanatic is not intended to be negative any any way, rather think of it as a minister in church who is over-zealous in leading the way, possibly even on occasion making unwarranted claims, etc. to illustrate a point. No offense intended to anyone or the "culture."

To Karlchen : Possibly you are correct with the English/Spanish, though I doubt a newbie's first though is fluency, rather a quick basic concept to understand, and thanks for the video link. Certainly a newbie needs to learn terms and definitions, so My thought was, where better than the vendor website or whatever existing Forum there. oops! Off to the library.
:?:
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karlchen
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Re: Mint-13 DISAPPOINTED!

Post by karlchen »

Hi, GetReal.

The vendor - who is not a real vendor, because they do not sell Linux Mint to you :wink: - does offer a User Guide. So there is no need to visit a public library. Though, of course, there is nothing wrong with doing so either.
I admit that the official User Guide is rather brief. And it does not explain what Linux is about. Obviously the authors assumed that their users know.

The problem with writing a Linux User's Guide for Windows Users is a problem of staff. Someone has to take the time and write it. And you have to update it with every new Windows version and every new Linux version.
If each and every producer of a Linux edition wrote and offered such a guide it would cost them more man power than they can afford.
Moreover it would be a waste of resources, because if a Windows user enters the world of Linux, it does not really matter which Linux edition (s)he starts with. The challenge is more or less always the same.

So the question really is who should feel responsible of writing Linux User's Guide for Windows Users?

Yet, some people seem to have started doing so:
Make switching from windows to linux easier with zorin-os
Trying Linux for Windows Users – A visual tutorial.

And these are the results of a very brief Google search for [Linux for Windows users] search only. So I would be amazed if not more helpful articles were available.

Oh yes, and as everybody wants to watch TV, instead of reading :wink: Zorin, The gateway to Linux for Windows users.

Finally, though not primarily for converts from Windows to Linux, the one that I like best and have consulted most often: Ubuntu Linux Resources by PsychoCat. - As Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu, PsychoCat's Howtos do not only apply to Ubuntu.

Kind regards,
Karl



Kind regards,
Karl
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GetReal
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Re: Mint-13 DISAPPOINTED!

Post by GetReal »

Karlchen you make good points I did not con$ider - and again thinks for the links. Making some progress understanding, even though I did not start correctly. :shock:
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Re: Mint-13 DISAPPOINTED!

Post by ajg007 »

Can i just say that Zorin is a good O.S to start on its what got me hooked. I have installed it on a few friends old laptops and they use it these days aswell.

After a while you want something a little more meatier.

As to my message of 'stay with it'. i'm sorry i could not offer a fix as my knowledge is minor and dont want you learning my mistakes. You seem to be educated to a high standard and feel you would benefit more from reading than my approach which is to dive in head first...and hitting a few pavements. :D
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gees
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Re: Mint-13 DISAPPOINTED!

Post by gees »

Finally boot complete. Clicked link to install Mint.
Here you went wrong!
When Min is running on a livedvd and you want to install it onto your harddrive first:

1. Start GParted from the livedvd in order to check your hard-drive(s).
2. Find the drive which is used to start your system (generally sda).
3. If you are a WIN-user and WIN is already installed, you will find sda1 (C: in WIN) and eventually sda2 (D: in WIN), both formated NTFS.
4. If there is no unused space on the drive, shrink sda1 and sda2 (C: and evt. D:) to a reasonable size at the beginning of your drive with GParted.
5. The created free space I use for the creation of sda3 (ext2, /BOOT, with 2GB space for the GRUB bootloader for WIN and MINT).
6. Create sda4 as extended partition which then is used to create
- sda5 (swap, same size as your RAM),
- sda6 (ext4, for / MINT, 10+GB) and finally
- sda7 (ext4, /HOME for your encrypted data) (Note: you can also create these partitions during the install.)
7. Start install and chose the option for MANUAL install (3rd option) and define the the mountpoints as indicated in 6.)
/boot on sda3; swap on sda5; / on sda6 and /home on sda7 (sda4 is the container for the extended partitions sda5 and higher)
(The swap-partition can be left out as it does not make sense when using encryption)
Check everything and proceed.

If you are dissatisfied with the result you can easily start over, re-partition and install again BUT:
As long as you do not touch sda1 and sda2 you cant do anything wrong with WIN; do NOT delete the BOOT partition (win wont start any more)
You can overwrite the bootpartition as often as you want during install because Mint will autodetect WIN and will installs the correct bootloader again.

As former WIN user these are the essential steps to switch to MINT:
- learn to love the bootloader concept (later you can install as many OS on your system as you like)
- learn to love the partitions and GParted (as windows does not -or doesnot propagate- this concept
- because MINT installs so quickly (less than 30 minutes) you can easily practice.
- If you are unsure back-up your data FIRST

Good luck.
"The web was made for sharing ..."
jamvaru

Re: Mint-13 DISAPPOINTED!

Post by jamvaru »

really, the best way is to just check a book out from the library
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