Installtion/Live DVD - A bad start?

All Gurus once were Newbies
Forum rules
There are no such things as "stupid" questions. However if you think your question is a bit stupid, then this is the right place for you to post it. Please stick to easy to-the-point questions that you feel people can answer fast. For long and complicated questions prefer the other forums within the support section.
Before you post please read how to get help
Post Reply
starman~
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:00 pm

Installtion/Live DVD - A bad start?

Post by starman~ » Sat Mar 08, 2014 2:04 am

Hi all,

I haven't been in the Mint forums in a long time. I had tossed my hat in the ring for a while but just couldn't get a Linux Distro that worked reliably.

So I gave it a while, and just downloaded and tried to run the latest MINt 16. It ran horribly. The first two attempts to boot the DVD resulted in failed xorg, something or other.
Third time I tried the "compatibility mode". Okay it booted, and it even worked, sort of. The thing was impossibly slow. I attempted to load the Nvidia driver for my card, but it stalled for about 10 minutes. When it completed nothing was improved. So I shutdown, when I get to the text that says "Mint is now Rebooting" the DVD pops out, and nothing.
I had to press power to restart the system.
My system is getting old, but Linux has typically been friendly to older hardware.
If the DVD runs this poorly on my system, what's the chance this is going to be a waste of my time installing?
I've been through this in the past, and never had a Live DVD run so crappy. What gives?
I like the look and feel of Mint, but I went through 3 installations the first time I tried Mint a couple years ago. Not doing that again.
Honest opinions welcome. And yes i searched the forums, but didn't see this clearly discussed.
Thanks

User avatar
doktarZues
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:54 am

Re: Installtion/Live DVD - A bad start?

Post by doktarZues » Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:16 am

Sooo you had a bad go at Mint 3 years ago and it sucked. Something else/other distros, likely multiple different ones also must have sucked pretty bad for you to swing back to one that left a bad taste in your mouth. But your back and oops, "it still sucks."

Honest opinion? Isolate the two common variables and you will find the source of the issue- you or your hardware. You should expect noticeably better performance with an install vs. live environment. Good luck

Mark Phelps
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1847
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:39 pm

Re: Installtion/Live DVD - A bad start?

Post by Mark Phelps » Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:04 am

Linux has typically been friendly to older hardware.
Sorry, but that's a generalization that is not very accurate with current Linux distros -- especially if you're using a machine for which current Linux drivers are no longer available for the hardware.

A prime example of this is the AMD HD 2x/3x/4x-series video chipsets. AMD dropped support for these just before Mint 14 came out, so if you are trying to run Mint 14 or newer on a PC that has one of these video chipsets, it is likely you'll just get a black screen and have to make some changes to the kernel boot parameters to even see a screen.

Same is true starting with Mint 15, which expected to see a 3D-hardware-acclerated video chipset in place and , if not found, put you into Software Rendering mode -- with a big poster on the desktop to that effect.

benali72
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 217
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:49 am

Re: Installtion/Live DVD - A bad start?

Post by benali72 » Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:41 am

Starman, are you saying that Mint ran slowly when you ran it solely off the DVD? I've often found this to be the case on older computers because the DVD's are slow. What speed is your DVD rated? If Mint is slow due to DVD reading speed, installing it to the hard disk will solve your performance problem.

The second speed factor I'd look at is -- which interface did you choose to download for Mint? Xfce and Mate are significantly faster than Cinnamon and KDE on mature computers. Again, this is based on my own experience with older systems (which I refurbish). The primary technical reasons here are how much video ram your system has and the performance of the graphics subsystem.

If your sytem is older, specs on system and video memory -- and also cpu and graphics subsystem -- become important. If you could post these we could verify for you whether Mint will run acceptably on your system. Thanks.

starman~
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:00 pm

Re: Installtion/Live DVD - A bad start?

Post by starman~ » Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:43 pm

Here's the basic specs of my old system. Is Mint 16 going to run on if I install it?
I want to recreate a dual boot system.

CPU: Single core AMD Athlon XP 2600+ (UP) cache 256 KB flags clocked at 2000.00 MHz
MOBO: Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe
NForce 2 Chipset
RAM: 2GB
Graphics: Card nVidia GeForce FX 5500
Audio: Creative Labs SB 5.1 Live!
Network: Card-1 Marvell 88E8001 Gigabit Ethernet
Card-2 nVidia nForce2 Ethernet Controller
Disks: HDD Total Size: 300GB

I should add that I went through several versions of Ubuntu as well. In all my experience a live CD never ran poorly, Mint or Ubuntu.
It runs Windows XP just fine. Is my system too old for Linux?

turmbau
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:33 pm

Re: Installtion/Live DVD - A bad start?

Post by turmbau » Sat Mar 08, 2014 2:39 pm

Hey starman,
as I can see your basic system is not too old to run a modern linux. 2Ghz CPU and 2GB RAM should suffice, I think. Not really fast, but surely enough. But u seem to have a problem with the graphics driver. You said X system failed ... and u tried to install nVideas propretary driver. Rebooting is necessary for the new driver to work. But u use a DVD live system. Installing extra software in DVD mode is maybe not the way to go ( the hardrive is not used, instead u run on a RAMDISC, wich is a small portion of your RAM as a workaround to have at least any writable space, all changes lost after reboot ). And in general , you should EXPECT the system to be slow in some aspects when booting from DVD. Thats not a graphics problem. Try to install the distro. I don't have experience with your graphics card, but I am hopeful it will work well. My experience with aged ATI : it works.

starman~
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:00 pm

Re: Installtion/Live DVD - A bad start?

Post by starman~ » Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:17 pm

turmbau, thanks for the feedback. I do understand what you are saying about the graphics card. I recently purchased it to replace a bad FX5200, which I never had an issue with when using a Live CD.
My intent is/was to do an install as a dual boot, but I've been able to test the Live CD in prior cases. This one just isn't really testable.
I could install it on faith, but I don't have the inkling to redo it if it fails. I refuse to be forced down that MS road anymore. Guess I'll try another Ubuntu Live CD first.

UPDATE: I went looking through my disks and found a MINT 12 Live CD. I'm using it right now. It's the difference between night and day from Mint 16.
Absolutely no problem running 12, not ungodly slow, no problem with graphics display, resolution correct. This is the way I expected Mint 16 to work.

Anyone have an explanation why Mint 12 works and Mint 16 doesn't, both run from a Live CD.

Thanks

User avatar
gold_finger
Level 9
Level 9
Posts: 2886
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:39 pm

Re: Installtion/Live DVD - A bad start?

Post by gold_finger » Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:26 am

starman~,

I have a similar old computer to yours. I don't have Mint on it, but do have an Ubuntu-based distro using the Xfce desktop (http://voyagerlive.org/). (I used to have Mint 14 Xfce on it and it worked perfectly.) If you are trying to use the Cinnamon or KDE desktop versions of Mint, it will not work very well. You should have no problems with either the Xfce or Mate versions though. Burn both of those and test them.

Note: you cannot install the Nvidia driver to the live DVD, (at least not by using the standard "Additional Drivers" method).

P.s. Make sure to check that the ISO image is good by confirming the md5sum before burning the DVD's.

P.s.s. Another option you have is to install to a USB stick (16GB or larger) and try the system out that way first. (Boot with live DVD then install to the USB instead of the hard drive.) By doing that, you will be able to install the correct video driver and do everything else you want to do to test it out. It will still be slower than an install to the hard drive, but much better than running a live DVD.

If you want to do that, it would be best to make partitions on it ahead of time with GParted and be sure to point the bootloader installation to the USB. Post back if you want detailed description of how to do that.
Please add [SOLVED] to your thread if a solution is found. Go to your first post in the thread, hit "Edit" button and add [SOLVED] to the title of the post.

How To Format Your Forum Posts.

Try Linux Beginner Search Engine for Linux questions.

Mark Phelps
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1847
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:39 pm

Re: Installtion/Live DVD - A bad start?

Post by Mark Phelps » Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:45 pm

If the DVD runs this poorly on my system, what's the chance this is going to be a waste of my time installing?
Depends on what you mean by "runs poorly"!

If that means it runs slowly, that is to be expected from a LiveDVD as it has to load everything into RAM to run it and is constrained by the speed at which it can read from the DVD to do that.

If that means that one or more devices or hardware functions do not work, that is a different story -- and in that case, you should make note of what does not work and use the Forums to search for answers. It is likely that those problems are fixable, but with older hardware, some of them may not be due to lack of drivers for current Linux distros.
Anyone have an explanation why Mint 12 works and Mint 16 doesn't, both run from a Live CD.
Each new Mint version comes with a new kernel version, new X-server versions, and new drivers. In my case, for example, Mint 15 installed and worked without problems on my PC, but Mint 16 was a nightmare to get installed and working.

One example of what IS different between Mint 12 and Mint 16 is the X-server version -- and if you are unlucky enough to have one of the now "legacy" AMD HD 2x/3x/4x-series cards, you will discover that running Mint 16 presents some difficulties in that the default Radeon drivers don't work well, and you can NOT install the AMD fglrx drivers to fix that.

starman~
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:00 pm

Re: Installtion/Live DVD - A bad start?

Post by starman~ » Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:57 pm

Thank you for the feedback.

gold_finger, the live CD I ran was the cinnamon Mint 16, I'll try the xfce or Mate. Although, I must admit i really don't understand the difference in the Desktop environments. Need to do some research.
I should have remembered that updating to a newer driver was not possible. I did check the md5 after downloading.
I am considering the USB version. I think I had problems getting it to boot on my desktop in the past, on my laptop it worked fine.
Thanks for the offer on Gparted, but I've been down this road, so I'm pretty sure I'll remember how to do it. I've got a couple disks with it.

Mark Phelps, poorly refers to the failure described in my OP. I don't have any Radeon hardware, just the Nvidia Fx5500 card, that and the board is legacy NForce 2 chipset (see my post a couple down). I'll try a couple other versions first. Gonna give Mint 13 LTS a try also, since that isn't as drastic a difference, and its supported.

User avatar
gold_finger
Level 9
Level 9
Posts: 2886
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:39 pm

Re: Installtion/Live DVD - A bad start?

Post by gold_finger » Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:28 pm

starman~ wrote:the live CD I ran was the cinnamon Mint 16, I'll try the xfce or Mate. Although, I must admit i really don't understand the difference in the Desktop environments. Need to do some research.
This is a somewhat dated post, but gives you a good general idea: http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.p ... 45#p314893. (Be aware some references are made to versions that Mint doesn't produce anymore. Just use post for gaining general understanding of what is meant by "desktop environment", "window managers", etc.)

Just to reiterate, the Voyager Xfce version that I'm using on my older computer is along the same version line as Mint 16 -- so I'd guess that using Mint 16 (Xfce or Mate) should work on yours.
starman~ wrote:Gonna give Mint 13 LTS a try also, since that isn't as drastic a difference, and its supported.
That's fine too. There are a couple of things to be aware of if you end up installing Mint 13 to your computer (these only apply to 13 -- not problems with 16):
  • 1. The installer's slideshow frequently causes problems for some computers and the install process stalls out. (That happened to me on that same old computer when I used to run 13 on it.) To prevent yourself from having the same issue, boot into the live session, open a terminal and enter the following to remove the slideshow program before you attempt to install:

    Code: Select all

    sudo apt-get remove ubiquity-slideshow-mint
    2. After install is complete and you reboot, you need to remove the Medibuntu repository from your Software Sources. It is now defunct, but was active when Mint 13 was produced so when you go to update the system it will spit out errors. Copy/Paste the command shown on this post into a terminal to get rid of it: http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.p ... 71#p773172.

    Then, run this command in the terminal before you try installing all the initial updates to the system:

    Code: Select all

    sudo apt-get update
starman~ wrote:Mark Phelps, poorly refers to the failure described in my OP. I don't have any Radeon hardware,...
I think Mark was just using the Radeon issue as an example of things that can change between versions that can explain performance differences. Don't think he meant that particular issue applied to you, but can see how you may have thought that.
Please add [SOLVED] to your thread if a solution is found. Go to your first post in the thread, hit "Edit" button and add [SOLVED] to the title of the post.

How To Format Your Forum Posts.

Try Linux Beginner Search Engine for Linux questions.

Mark Phelps
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1847
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:39 pm

Re: Installtion/Live DVD - A bad start?

Post by Mark Phelps » Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:50 pm

Mark Phelps, poorly refers to the failure described in my OP. I don't have any Radeon hardware,
Sorry if my remarks were confusing ...

I was using that as an example of where someone with a Radeon chipset in their PC would have no problems installing and running Mint 12 but might have major problems installing and running Mint 16 -- due to driver and middleware changes between to two Mint versions.

Tejas_0
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 181
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 6:06 pm

Re: Installtion/Live DVD - A bad start?

Post by Tejas_0 » Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:53 pm

Don't understand what all the fuss is about. Run the iso from HD, and it serves all my needs:

Code: Select all

mint@mint ~ $ inxi -F	Sun Jan 05 18:06:49 CET 2014 
System:    Host: mint Kernel: 3.11.0-12-generic i686 (32 bit) Desktop: Gnome Distro: Linux Mint 16 Petra
Machine:   Mobo: TAR model: N61PC-M2S Bios: Phoenix version: 6.00 PG date: 07/31/2009
CPU:       Single core AMD Sempron 140 (-UP-) cache: 1024 KB flags: (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 sse4a svm) clocked at 800.00 MHz 
Graphics:  Card: NVIDIA C61 [GeForce 6150SE nForce 430] 
           X.Org: 1.14.3 drivers: (unloaded: fbdev,vesa) FAILED: nouveau Resolution: 1280x1024@60.0hz 
           GLX Renderer: Gallium 0.4 on NV4C GLX Version: 2.1 Mesa 9.2.1
Audio:     Card-1: NVIDIA MCP61 High Definition Audio driver: snd_hda_intel Sound: ALSA ver: k3.11.0-12-generic
           Card-2: Chicony driver: USB Audio
Network:   Card: NVIDIA MCP61 Ethernet driver: forcedeth 
           IF: eth0 state: up speed: 100 Mbps duplex: full mac: 00:30:67:1e:51:6f
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 250.1GB (30.1% used) 1: id: /dev/sda model: ExcelStor_Techno size: 250.1GB 
Info:      Processes: 137 Uptime: 1 min Memory: 163.7/874.3MB Client: Shell inxi: 1.8.4 
Release: Linux Mint 16 "petra"
Edition: Cinnamon 32-bit
Linux mint 3.11.0-12-generic #19-Ubuntu SMP Wed Oct 9 16:12:00 UTC 2013 i686 athlon i686 GNU/Linux

starman~
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:00 pm

Re: Installtion/Live DVD - A bad start?

Post by starman~ » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:55 am

That's an interesting idea Tejas, but not sure I want to go that route. I'd need to do some looking around to figure out how its done, think I'd rather go with an install. By the way, if you think its a good idea how about some setup instructions?

Anyway, I tested xfce and Mate from LiveDVDs and both worked well. xfce was a little slow, but the Mate ran very smooth and fast for a LiveDVD.
Looks like I'll go with Mate. It's also an environment I'm familiar with, since I've run older Ubuntu with Gnome 2x.
I did some research on the differences, Mate or xfce look to be the best choices for my system. As my Windows XP reaches retirement, I really need to make an
honest attempt to move to Linux for good. As I hinted at in my OP I've run Linux on and off several times now, twice with dual boot systems.
Going for the full switch this time, I'll keep XP as backup.

Post Reply

Return to “Newbie Questions”