Mint and Linux definately not a replacement for XP

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simonbrown
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Re: Mint and Linux definately not a replacement for XP

Post by simonbrown »

I am sorry you appear to have had such a difficult time getting started. I use Mint at home and Windows (7) at work. I find Mint both easier and more intuitive to use, and I hardly ever find any problems. In the course of general use I hardly ever have to use the terminal. In fact let me be more definite - for general use I do not have to use the terminal. Perhaps you have simply been unfortunate with the standard disk burning application included - that isn't something I ever have to do apart from burning new ISO discs for updates, so I can't comment on Brasero except in that limited respect. Using the Mint menu interface is not difficult, and it is very good for general use. There's a very good user guide that now comes with the latest version, well worth reading if you have not done so already. There are many who love using the terminal and drop down into it instinctively when asked for how to do things. That's just how it is here. We all can also get defensive when we feel criticised. That's just being human. Trying to get your head round the Linux way of things and understand the language used can be more of an obstacle than some may realise, and I can well imagine that this can be an issue for some. However it is not more complicated than Windows for straightforward use. People here tend to be very helpful. I hope you persist.
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monkeyboy
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Re: Mint and Linux definately not a replacement for XP

Post by monkeyboy »

turtlebay777 wrote:
monkeyboy wrote:
Your quote ' Complaining is like masticating most anyone can do it.
However doing it in public is really hardcore.
Sorry I just realised you wrote masticating. My poor eyesight!
Hey Turtlebay777 about that, It used to be that other nasty word, but I was informed that this was a family board and that it had to go. So then I thought about going with wacking the chicken, but figured it would probably not fly either. Enjoy
If you don't like it, make something better
If you can't make something better, adapt
If you can't do either ball your panties up and cry.

Complaining is like masticating most anyone can do it.
However doing it in public is really hardcore.
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Re: Mint and Linux definately not a replacement for XP

Post by daveinuk »

I hope the OP sticks around, what I read was frustration and lots of struggling getting to grips with a new OS. It's a big leap, I remember it well, maybe a few posters here should try to remember their transition.............. It is difficult jumping ship, the jargon/terminology is foreign, nothing is in a familiar place, not files, not structure, nothing - I personally appreciate every frutsrated newb post I see and for me it's been over 4 years, but I remember the headaches like yesterday.

If you take every frustrated poster literally, don't reply, if you want to argue or wind people up with a smart arse comment, don't reply, if you wonder why noobs give up and why linux hasn't taken over the world, and you moan about it, think why. Messages, whether on a forum, phone or whatever, can often be interpreted 2 ways depending how you read it, one mans flame is another mans frustration, I think some here need to try and bit a little less trigger happy and smug, it doesn't help the distro or the potential new users.
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Spearmint2
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Re: Mint and Linux definately not a replacement for XP

Post by Spearmint2 »

If you take every frustrated poster literally, don't reply, if you want to argue or wind people up with a smart arse comment, don't reply, if you wonder why noobs give up and why linux hasn't taken over the world, and you moan about it, think why.

For some, it's the "Big Red Button". You just KNOW someone will push it, just to watch the explosion.

http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=9644
All things go better with Mint. Mint julep, mint jelly, mint gum, candy mints, pillow mints, peppermint, chocolate mints, spearmint,....
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Re: Mint and Linux definately not a replacement for XP

Post by daveinuk »

I only pressed it for two minutes :lol:
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DarrenG
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Re: Mint and Linux definately not a replacement for XP

Post by DarrenG »

Monflyer wrote:Trying to installing all but the basic packages has has taken me hrs...
Help please before I deinstall Mint and go back to good old XP - with or without support at least it does the job.
I feel your pain, the only constant in life is change. I had to face a learning curve when windows for workgroups replaced DOS, then another learning curve when windows 95 came out, and I wasted hours when "Good old XP" was brand new p.i.t.a XP and lots of DOS software just didn't run anymore. ( My dear old mum still hasn't got over the shock of losing DOS.) But slowly "cutting edge" becomes "good old" like an old pair of slippers.

I suspect jumping from XP to win 8.1 would also involve you in a learning curve. (If it even ran on your existing hardware). XP was good when it came out, but 13 years is a long time in computer land. But be encouraged, I think Linux is unfriendly in the same way than a new pair of slippers just don't "feel right". True, there are linux snobs/apple snobs/windows snobs everywhere, but there are also good folk who like to pay forward the help they once got, if you ask nicely. And once you've mastered this learning curve mint 17 is good for 5 years.

But in my experience every computer of every flavour comes equipped with a stress detector and will refuse to operate when your blood pressure reaches a pre-set level. :lol:
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Re: Mint and Linux definately not a replacement for XP

Post by scryan »

Linux is really not that bad, but I know where you are coming from. I tried like 4 times through out the years and quit each time with complaints similar to yours. It was ignorant of me.

Finally the last time I wanted to learn more so I tried for real... I got the book "The linux bible" and read through the chapters that apply to general linux users.

Two really big issues:
1.) As said, linux IS NOT a windows replacement. Its another operating system. Its not so much that linux is a bad windows replacement... its that windows is a bad linux replacement :lol:
Really its another operating system. I NEVER use macs, and the few times I had to I couldn't figure out how to do the simplest things... I knew windows. Windows is easy. My uncle never computered... Windows is strange and confusing to him. Why are exe's programs? What is a start menu.... Point is computers are very complex, and while windows seems easy you learned it over many years.
2.) Linux IS made for different users. Well there are a lot of linux distributions aimed to a lot of different crowds... but one thing they do have in common...
YOU NEED TO PAY ATTENTION, YOU NEED TO READ.
Yes, there are some versions that are friendlier... But MS spends vast resources coddling lazy people to get their money. Their just is not as much of that in an world where your getting community supported software for free. Think of it as these people have already done A LOT to let you use your computer... Meet them half way and read the instructions they wrote.

But, if you read, adapt and pay attention it really can be easy, sometimes even more so then windows.

In your original example:
This came up with error message saying how I had to manually install install mplex and DVDauthor - but no indicatioon on how to do this.
[...]
Why the hell can't it just be download and double click to install ? The advantages of Windows are now becoming more an more obvious, even though they cost a hit up front.
Definitely NOT an advantage of windows!
Lets complicate the matters more. I also need to install VLC and XMBC.
Windows:
I could first find track down the website for mplex, for dvdauthor, for vlc and for xbmc. On each website I could find the most recent version,make sure its for your operating system and architecture, download it (make sure you remember where you down load it too, not only will you have to locate the install file... but you will need to delete it later durring clean up), navigate to the previously mentioned directory, run each install file and follow their instructions, clicking next and making sure they don't install toolbars, watching for one to finish so you can run the next (remember only one installer instance and no que). After you run them make sure to delete each installer to eliminate clutter. Each program may also install an updater that will run individually in the background (or you can do it manually and check for updates yourself).
Mint:
sudo apt-get install mplex dvdauthor blv xbmc
sudo grants temp admin rights apt-get is the command line based software manager, install tells it to install then you list the names of programs you want to install.

The graphic Software Manager will let you install software too, but if you know the name it can be MUCH faster to type one line then click around a bunch.

Which leads to point 2.
YOU NEED TO READ. Meet us half way. At the top of the forum where you posted this rant is a thread called
"How to install software on linux mint" http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=97158
Very first thread. Did you read that? Much easier then trying to compile your own software, you really don't want to mess with that unless you have to... the software updater won't check for updates on software you compile manually.
HOWEVER if you wanted to: "If you compile - remember build essentials" http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=9234 about 5 threads below that.

Linux can be VERY easy to use honestly. I find it easier to work with then windows, but if you have no idea what you are doing, and have never bothered to make a legitimate attempt to learn... of course something as complex as an operating system seems confusing when you have no exposure to it and try and just jump in and figure it out.
2chunky
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Re: Mint and Linux definately not a replacement for XP

Post by 2chunky »

You have that backwards. Linux is overly user friendly. Its win du z thats not friendly.
There is more to learn how to do because it is so user friendly. And not push button.
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Re: Mint and Linux definately not a replacement for XP

Post by Spearmint2 »

For my guest account, so the shock isn't too great if a visitor wants to check his email. Oh yeah, it was a tar.gz file I used. What did I do with it? I dragged it over to the "Appearance" with theme tag open and it automatically installed. I didn't even need to unzip it myself first. I blinked, and almost missed it happening.
All things go better with Mint. Mint julep, mint jelly, mint gum, candy mints, pillow mints, peppermint, chocolate mints, spearmint,....
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Barbados99
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Re: Mint and Linux definately not a replacement for XP

Post by Barbados99 »

There is a learning curve as some have mentioned. I started out tinkering with Linux almost 20 years ago, but just out of curiousity. I wasn't serious about using it as my only operating system. It was just something to play with in my spare time in a dual-boot setup.

I think the key, for me at least, was to have perseverance and not give up when I was frustrated. There have been times when I've felt overwhelmed with some aspect of Linux, and sometimes downright angry when I screwed something up, or couldn't get something to work.

Then I found Linux Mint a few months ago, and this forum of VERY helpful people. It was a game-changer for me.

A couple of days ago it dawned on me that I don't boot into Windows anymore. That I actually LIKE using Linux more than Windows. For most folks here, they probably loved Linux from the beginning, but that's not what happened with me. It kind of "grew" on me over time once I found Linux Mint.

I have a new Lenovo laptop arriving tomorrow and I'm zapping Windows 8 that comes with it, and making it exclusively a Linux machine. I never ever dreamed that was possible for me......that I'd actually WANT to go with a Linux distro over Windows - exclusively. It sure feels good.

But this would never have happened without the people here on this forum. I know I've asked a lot of stupid questions here, yet folks are always patient to help one another. That's a POWERFUL asset to have available. I'm 100% comfortable walking away from Windows now. How cool is that?
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Re: Mint and Linux definately not a replacement for XP

Post by Marty Feldman »

Monflyer -

Another opinion....

You're right about MInt not being a replacement for XP, if by "replacement" you mean "same as" - but no, you couldn't mean that because you wouldn't go to the trouble of switching OSs just to repeat what you already had. I guess I am not clear as to just what it was that you expected.

I also went from XP to Mint. Did it because I got to feeling that my computer wasn't mine, but was just a box I was supposed to feel privileged to rent from Microsoft, Dell, et al. I was tired of being subjected to stuff that I never asked for, didn't want, and didn't like coming from gazillion dollar companies that seemed bent on ramming what they hoped was feel-good stuff down my throat so that they could get to the next level, presumably mega-gazillionhood. I had a kid build me a noname computer from scratch and put Mint into it. Not Mint alongside XP or anything else. Just Mint. Then after transferring a few critical files, I junked my old computer. That way, I was forced to dig into Linux. It wasn't easy, and I am still not an expert by any means, but it was fun, and I am happier with my computer than I have been in years. My computer feels like my computer.

-Marty-
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Re: Mint and Linux definately not a replacement for XP

Post by chiefjim »

Monflyer wrote: My frustratons may be self inflicted - but thats the point I am making - Mint/ linux is not helpful to newbies who have to blunder around getting partialy answers from Forums until they find something which works.
That sure seems familiar. I've assisted many people who were new to Linux. Many shared a dangerous trait, assuming everything would work just as it did in Windoz. These people were all in a rush to work on some project. My recommnedation was to skip working for a few days and just go exploring. Ask questions about what this or that does. Later when beginning a project these folks might actually know the functional difference between a text editor and LibreOffice Writer.

Going ahead without learning some basics is like buying a brand new car which is a make and model you've never had before. If you take delivery right a sunset and commence a cross country trip don't complain about not knowing how to set radio stations, turn on the head lights, or find the gas filler door release. These are basics. Some basics are required when being introduced to a new OS as well.
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Re: Mint and Linux definately not a replacement for XP

Post by DrHu »

Depends on why you use a computer
If it is for standard usage:
  • Email
  • Internet browsing
  • IRC- internet chatting, audio/video or text mode
  • Youtube viewing
  • Playing online games
--then there is little if any problem using Linux OS for those purposes

If you have a specific problem, for your example Banshee (media player)
--VLC is another choice
  • There are often choices, other than the default application that is installed
    --sometimes another application has fewer issues/possible bugs ?
I would say the general case which you can see from the number of users satisfied or at least continuing to use this Linux OS or another distribution choice
--shows that it(the Linux OS) does work for most users

Games are the exception, and for that case,
-multi-boot (dual-boot) Linux OS + Windows OS
  • Allows running all our games
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Re: Mint and Linux definately not a replacement for XP

Post by colyn »

I had to install XP a few weeks ago on a neighbors computer. Now that was an exercise in frustration!!!!!!!!!

On the other hand installing Linux whether it be Mint or another Linux distro goes smooth and easy. Never had a problem installing programs...
turtlebay777

Re: Mint and Linux definately not a replacement for XP

Post by turtlebay777 »

Amazing how this thread is developing considering how it started.

At this point I want to say sorry if the OP found my comments unhelpful, but they were just my comments, like everyone else on Linux forums we can only advise from our own perspectives and experiences. And if someone refuses the help offered, frustration creeps in.

I also agree about repairing and or re-installing Windoze for a friend - it's a real pain in the butt after Mint. :cry: I started using Linux b/cause I was fed up of being messing about by Windoze, and it's an unpleasant reminder when you casually agree to help someone when theirs fails, you forget what a pain it is!
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Re: Mint and Linux definately not a replacement for XP

Post by GhosTSurf »

I have installed Mint and WOW what a pleasure coming from windows7 which I would say is one of MS better efforts.

Yes have had the system lock me out and corrupted and had to reinstall.
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Re: Mint and Linux definately not a replacement for XP

Post by Timberbeast »

First, I want to thank these people who replied to the OP. You guys are usually the first to jump in to help frustrated new greenhorns. I don't blame you when you get p!ssed off when somebody just wants to rant or whine. I think some people are just natural whiners. :cry:

But ... you have to remember when you started and got frustrated trying to get something working. For most of us, it wasn't easy to learn a new OS. Each of the OSs have their quirks. Doze, Mac, or Linux. Oh yeah, I had my battles with driver issues with Linux too. (Broadcom) grrrr

I loved it when I realized there was no need for Doze be even on my old machine and I got to whack it. I giggled for days. I'm a little long in the tooth to giggle, but I don't tell my grand-daughter that. :D

You don't know how many times you guys have helped me when I read your replies to other people. This is the best forum I've seen for help on the 'Net, bar none. (just my opinion) :D I'm proud to be a member.

just my 2 cents
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Re: Mint and Linux definately not a replacement for XP

Post by Paddy78 »

I moved over from win7, I chose Mint15 because the desktop layout was very simular and didn't feel like I was taking such a big jump. Then I read, read and read some more. Day to day I get by. I have asked for help on here and it has always been helpful.

I have trouble at work, just today my brother said that it was my stupid computer that didn't let him print out a spreadsheet I had sorted for him. I then pointed out that he hadn't actually selected the area to be printed. This just shows how windows has managed to brainwash everyone (all be it very well) into thinking it is the best.

My advice to all new users is READ, READ and READ......

Linux Mint17 is great and I will change all my pc's to run Mint as and when I feel they are to slow from being fill with too much rubbish windows likes to send.
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Re: Mint and Linux definately not a replacement for XP

Post by SandsOfArrakis »

I'm one of those people who grew up with first DOS/Windows 3.11 and later on Windows only. Almost a decade ago bought myself a Mac and it was all nice and dandy.
Kept using Windows next to it. And tried out a bit of Linux in between. For some reason Linux didn't stick with me.

Now years later the Mac has decided to change this world for the computer afterlife. And was down to Windows only. Windows 7 by now. And I personally think it's Microsoft's best OS they ever made. Started dabbling in Linux again. This time Linux Mint and it clicked so to speak.

Now I have one PC with Windows 8.1 for games, and 2 laptops both running Mint 17 with the Cinnamon desktop. It took me several years to make the switch to Linux. First try was an old RedHat distribution which I bought as a 6 CD box many years ago. You even had to type a command to mount and unmount a CD-ROM drive. I think that was one of the reasons I left Linux back then. I've never been fond of the DOS prompt/Linux Terminal. Still am not. And most likely, I never will. But luckily for me I hardly ever have to use it. For normal stuff like a poster listed above (Internet, Office, Music etc.) you don't need the terminal. And that's what I'm using my laptops for :)

When it comes to the differences between Windows and Linux software. You get used to it. Although I must admit, I do have a few old games and some Windows programs running through Wine. Tried the Linux counterparts to some programs, but found them lacking. And getting the Windows programs to run through Wine felt like a big accomplishment to me :)

As I said, it took me a few years before I finally made a complete switch. But I have reached the point that, apart from the Windows PC for gaming, I won't be going back to either Windows or OS X.
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Re: Mint and Linux definately not a replacement for XP

Post by MasonF »

Monflyer,

As a fellow newbie, I understand your frustration. But try to relax and look at learning Linux as a project that will take some time. I'm old, and I look at learning Linux as good exercise for my brain.

Yes, there are some significant problems for new users. You're right, the Internet search and forum query is often extremely inefficient. Take small, manageable bites. Little victories feel good. And over time they will add up.

You don't have to abandon XP; just don't connect to the Internet with it. Set up a dual boot system (as suggested above) -- there are good tutorials for doing so available online. It's best and easiest to have XP installed first. Since Linux can deal with NTFS files (the Windows file system) you can set up a common area. It won't always be as efficient as having one OS do everything, but it will lower your blood pressure and take some pressure off learning Linux. Just don't allow XP to be the crutch that keeps you from ever learning Linux. In time, with some patience and the right attitude you'll become one of the experienced users telling newbies to relax.

Lest you think I'm not really frustrated, believe me I am. What frustrates me the most is things that are more difficult than they need to be and the fact that after years of reading about the superiority of Linux over Windows, I discover that Mint 17 has already had more problems in two days of use than I've had in several years with Windows 7. I'm no fan of Microsoft and Windows (which is why I'm here; I didn't have an XP problem), but Windows Update has done its job repeatedly without a glitch, while the first time I tried to update Mint, the Update Manager froze mid-update and left me with error messages I don't understand. Update Manager is set up to be simple to use, and all I did was click a button to tell it install the updates it had chosen for my system. I had nothing to do with the fact that Update Manager failed to do the job it was designed to do. And now, until I can get someone to explain the error message and fix, I can't update my system. That's not confidence inspiring. I would actually prefer that the mistake had been mine, rather than a failure of the OS. But when I finally connect with an answer -- whether after hours of searching or (I hope) when some nice person says "Do this and this and this" and saves me all that time -- it will be a small victory. I'll have learned something.

I have two computers, one is old, but it's running Vista and Mint. The other is running 7 and a Linux distro yet to be determined. It may be Mint, but Mint's going to have to win my allegiance. Right now I'm definitely wavering, since it won't even reliably shut down my computer. Whatever distro I end up with, my future is with Linux -- I hope.

And thanks to all the people who one way or another volunteer their time to either produce Linux distros or help newbies avoid ulcers.
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