Linux Distros with better upgrade systems?

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Fizzywhiskers
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Linux Distros with better upgrade systems?

Post by Fizzywhiskers » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:01 pm

I've decided that I'm tired of Mint's approach to upgrades, which is, to say the least, painful. It just isn't worth it to me.

Is there a good linux for people who want either stability or easy in-place upgrades? Or is Windows my best bet?

(No, I'm not incompetent; I make my living as a software engineer. What I am is busy, and jealous of my time.)

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Re: Linux Distros with better upgrade systems?

Post by colyn » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:11 pm

If you are a software engineer then updating/upgrading Mint should be a breeze..

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Re: Linux Distros with better upgrade systems?

Post by all41 » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:18 pm

Time is money.

Windows is both

You will spend more time 'upgrading' security apps for windows than upgrading your distro.

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Re: Linux Distros with better upgrade systems?

Post by Fizzywhiskers » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:42 pm

colyn wrote:If you are a software engineer then updating/upgrading Mint should be a breeze..
Backing things up and replacing them takes time. Re-installing customizations takes time. Pass.

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Re: Linux Distros with better upgrade systems?

Post by turtlebay777 » Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:13 pm

OMG help me I'm far too busy to bother with updating my computer because i am an idiot who thinks the world depends on me and revolves around me.

Hey Mr 'software engineer', GET A LIFE!


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Re: Linux Distros with better upgrade systems?

Post by Fizzywhiskers » Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:22 pm

Sorry I asked, it was a real (if irritated) question. If you don't mind spending time on version releases, great for you.

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Re: Linux Distros with better upgrade systems?

Post by ClutchDisc » Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:27 pm

Backing files up should be done regardless. If you have a separate /home partition updating to the next version is pretty easy.
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Re: Linux Distros with better upgrade systems?

Post by Pierre » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:20 pm

"I've decided that I'm tired of Mint's approach to upgrades, which is, to say the least, painful. It just isn't worth it to me."


just, what was it about the updater shield - that you didn't like?.
or do you mean, the update manager that is displayed, when the updater shield is clicked on?.
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Re: Linux Distros with better upgrade systems?

Post by all41 » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:35 pm

spending time on version releases
So find a LTS distro that fits you purpose.
While using Mint 17 Windows Vista will become obsolete and reach end of extended support.
Likewise Win 7, Win 8, and Win 8.1 will reach the end of mainstream support, and Mint 17 will still be supported.

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Re: Linux Distros with better upgrade systems?

Post by jimallyn » Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:04 pm

Sounds like you want a "rolling" release, where they don't have discrete version releases, but just keep continually updating the old release. There are several like that, but I can't think of the names of them off the top of my head.
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Re: Linux Distros with better upgrade systems?

Post by ClutchDisc » Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:32 pm

jimallyn wrote:Sounds like you want a "rolling" release, where they don't have discrete version releases, but just keep continually updating the old release. There are several like that, but I can't think of the names of them off the top of my head.
Linux Mint has that, it's called LMDE.
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Re: Linux Distros with better upgrade systems?

Post by austin.texas » Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:36 pm

Linux Distros with better upgrade systems?
Actually, that desire has already been addressed, with Mint 17, which will upgrade in place to 17.1
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Re: Linux Distros with better upgrade systems?

Post by ClutchDisc » Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:38 pm

austin.texas wrote:Linux Distros with better upgrade systems?
Actually, that desire has already been addressed, with Mint 17, which will upgrade in place to 17.1
Very true!
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Re: Linux Distros with better upgrade systems?

Post by niowluka » Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:50 am

You are asking for two mutually exclusive features.

If you want stability, don't update at all. Every update to every software carries a risk, even if a minute one.

If you want easy upgrades then I can't think of anything easier than Mint. You can try distros with other package management systems: Suse, Fedora, but I doubt they will be easier.
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Re: Linux Distros with better upgrade systems?

Post by scryan » Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:13 am

Fizzywhiskers wrote:Sorry I asked, it was a real (if irritated) question. If you don't mind spending time on version releases, great for you.
I think the snark you get is a combo of two things:

Most people who work with software seem to read the manual, a lot... A simple look at the Mint versions would show that LMDE offers a rolling release as compaired to the version releases you seem to be complaining about...
But more importantly...
Fizzywhiskers wrote:I've decided that I'm tired of Mint's approach to upgrades, which is, to say the least, painful. It just isn't worth it to me.

Is there a good linux for people who want either stability or easy in-place upgrades? Or is Windows my best bet?

(No, I'm not incompetent; I make my living as a software engineer. What I am is busy, and jealous of my time.)
What is this? What are we supposed to do with this?
Realize, your talking to the linux mint community, the community BEHIND those "pain" upgrades...We're obviously are fine with the system, as its the one we have chosen to use...
Apparently your not. I'm not sure why. You describe it as pain, so apparently it is causing you some kind of nerve damage? Perhaps check for faulty hardware? Otherwise give us ANY useable feedback an perhaps we can offer advice based on that?
Fizzywhiskers wrote:Sorry I asked, it was a real (if irritated) question. If you don't mind spending time on version releases, great for you.
OK, now we are getting somewhere...

So the pain is upgrading from one version to the next yes?

As a software engineer surely you understand the nature of bugs and testing yes? Any version of mint that is NOT 13, 17 or LMDE is a TESTING VERSION to try new things and gather information about bugs. I am NOT a software engineer and this was very clear to me from the get go. This is why I downloaded linux mint 13, which was released a number of years ago, and is supported for three more years.
Since then there has been one more LTS release, 17, which was very recent. If you downloaded the last LTS release the day before the newest version comes out, you would still have near enough 4 years to get ready for the upgrade...
Now if your talking about one of the interim versions, like 14,15,16, ect... Well... You are ridiculous for this complaint. You are a bit of a disgrace to ANY engineer, you did NO research, paid NO attention, Downloaded and installed random software without understanding even the basics of what you were doing, and pretty much have no reason to complain, and DEFINITE should go immediately back to windows.

Debian would be the biggest rolling distro to point you to. I am a big fan of Arch, but even though your a software engineer, if you are struggling to understand the basics of Mint its probably not for you. Similarly Gentoo offers rolling release but may be too difficult for you.

Really just search "rolling release linux distro". Its pretty easy, there is two standard distribution models version and rolling releases. I am not sure why you would pick a version based distro, not download a LTS, then complain about having to re-install/upgrade :lol:
You should also research partitions, and using seperate data and /home partitions, and how to export lists of installed packages... With that you can re-install/upgrade in less then 10 minutes with out loosing data or settings then restore your programs in a click or two and as fast as your internet connection will go.

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Re: Linux Distros with better upgrade systems?

Post by colyn » Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:36 pm

Fizzywhiskers wrote: Backing things up and replacing them takes time. Re-installing customizations takes time. Pass.
I can install, update and restore backups etc in under 2 hours with Mint..

Try that with Windows... Just updating takes hours.........

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Re: Linux Distros with better upgrade systems?

Post by bjmh46 » Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:35 pm

I agree that re-customization, etc. is a pain. That's why I'm a big fan of installing the new version over the old without formatting the partition. In another thread, this is referred to as "method three". I put off going to mint 17 for quite a while, having had a great experience with 16. I used the method outlined above, and it worked nearly flawlessly. Minimum pain, and most all your customization survives! Gotta love Mint!

I can't tell you how many times I've gotten really comfortable with a so called rolling distribution, only to have it break from an update. I spent more time fixing, than it takes to upgrade clean. That's why I also am a big fan of backups! Once you get used to imaging your boot partition with Clonezilla Live(or your personal choice), it becomes second nature and painless to keep a current backup. Yes, I've managed to break even Mint. But I like to experiment, because that's how I learn. With a current backup image, I can try things with the confidence that I can get my system back in 10 or 15 minutes, if things go south.

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Re: Linux Distros with better upgrade systems?

Post by I2k4 » Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:26 pm

Fizzywhiskers wrote:I've decided that I'm tired of Mint's approach to upgrades, which is, to say the least, painful. It just isn't worth it to me.

Is there a good linux for people who want either stability or easy in-place upgrades? Or is Windows my best bet?

(No, I'm not incompetent; I make my living as a software engineer. What I am is busy, and jealous of my time.)
Harsh tone but a perfectly legitimate complaint I've made myself about the drying up of third party software repositories even on supposedly "long term support" releases. I don't like spending time configuring settings for the OS and much more importantly for complex third party software and then being told to reinstall and redo them in order to have current versions - this is something Windows users are properly shocked at.

Currently I'm looking at two things:

a) I'm not sure what is involved updating and how the new Mint 17.1 "point release" is going to affect software repositories - I've been waiting for that. If the "point release" system gives me a stable and current OS and updates repos for five years, without requiring a complete fresh install and reconfiguration of everything, I'll install it on my machines.

b) I'll be trying out the new version of "rolling release" Manjaro XFCE on a thumb drive and potentially on one machine if it works. Everything I've read about Arch and other rolling release versions indicates they are not for "newbies" - which is code for a lot of time wasted by end users doing things that developers ought to do - something "newbie friendly" Mint has been pretty good about avoiding. Manjaro is also presented as "newbie friendly" and the rolling release in theory should solve the update and repository obsolescence problem. But the proof of the pudding ..., as they say. And of course while Mint is clearly well-supported it's not so clear that Manjaro has the "worker bees" to depend on for years of continuous support.
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Re: Linux Distros with better upgrade systems?

Post by Mark Phelps » Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:57 am

Sorry you caught so much grief for asking a simple question -- but forums are like that. You ask a simple question; folks bash you for it!

I was a Software Engineer, and then a Systems Engineer, for decades -- and one of the most important things I learned (as an "engineer") was to write things down! I have a Customization Document I created in LibreOffice that describes, in detail, all the customizations I've made to Mint after the installation. Then, when I install new Release (in-place upgrades are, in general, a bad idea), it takes me only a couple of hours to re-customize the New version of Mint. Given that I only do this twice a year, it's worth the few hours each time.

If you can't spare the few hours twice a year, then you need to follow the advice of folks regarding using "rolling" distros -- where changes are made on an ongoing basis, not with major scheduled releases.

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Re: Linux Distros with better upgrade systems?

Post by blainester » Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:48 am

I'm going to assume that you made this post after having installed LM16 then needing to upgrade to 17. I understand that it's a huge pain in the ass to do so, but now that the Mint team has decided to stick with the LTS base and use those for their point releases, the next few upgrades will be trivial. In fact, you won't need to upgrade again until 2019. I don't think it's too much to ask for a fresh installation every 5 years. (Actually if Linux Mint is still basing themselves off Ubuntu LM19 will be based on 18.04 LTS which will only have 4 additional years in 2019)

However, if even this is too much to ask, I would point you to Linux Mint Debian Edition or to Manjaro, which are both rolling releases. The former based on Debian (obviously :lol: ) and the latter on Arch Linux.

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